Energy costs. Oh dear.......

[funduffer]

We may need a few.

A certain amount of Nuclear baseload would provide resilience and energy security to the grid. This could come from batteries, pumped hydro, interconnectors or nuclear. With very large amounts of wind and solar it may not be much but probably best to have some nuclear as an insurance.

It is a cost question whether these are 3GW behemoths like Sizewell, or smaller 0.5GW SMR's like Rolls-Royce's:

https://www.rolls-royce-smr.com/why-rolls-royce-smr

It all comes down to whether you believe the lower costs of SMR's or not.

FD

I do not. There is not a linear or simple relationship between cost of a nuclear power plant and it's generating capacity. And that's no different to virtually every other type of process or energy facility. In particular, nuclear facilities bear overheads that are considerable virtually independent of size.

One example, there's little difference to the control, safeguarding and protection systems on a ~1.5gw steam turbine generator (as Hinckley C) compared to ~0.5gw steam turbine generator (as SMR proposal). And that's the conventional, non nuclear side of the facility. Cost savings? Virtually nil.

I think the main cost savings claimed for SMR's is that much of the kit can be produced in carefully controlled factory conditions rather than out in the open on-site. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen.

https://www.rolls-royce-smr.com/press/f ... mr-factory

The three sites from which Rolls-Royce SMR will select the location of its first factory have been announced. The heavy pressure vessels (HPV) factory will produce components for a fleet of small modular reactors (SMR) designed and built here in the UK.

· The International Advanced Manufacturing Park (IAMP), Sunderland and South Tyneside

· Teesworks, Teesside

· Gateway, Deeside

FD

[BullDog]

I do not. There is not a linear or simple relationship between cost of a nuclear power plant and it's generating capacity. And that's no different to virtually every other type of process or energy facility. In particular, nuclear facilities bear overheads that are considerable virtually independent of size.

One example, there's little difference to the control, safeguarding and protection systems on a ~1.5gw steam turbine generator (as Hinckley C) compared to ~0.5gw steam turbine generator (as SMR proposal). And that's the conventional, non nuclear side of the facility. Cost savings? Virtually nil.

I think the main cost savings claimed for SMR's is that much of the kit can be produced in carefully controlled factory conditions rather than out in the open on-site. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen.

https://www.rolls-royce-smr.com/press/f ... mr-factory

The three sites from which Rolls-Royce SMR will select the location of its first factory have been announced. The heavy pressure vessels (HPV) factory will produce components for a fleet of small modular reactors (SMR) designed and built here in the UK.

· The International Advanced Manufacturing Park (IAMP), Sunderland and South Tyneside

· Teesworks, Teesside

· Gateway, Deeside

FD

The concept of modularisation of course is nothing new. Most large energy engineering projects are modular these days. The cost saving of course is because the modules are built in Asia and deployed wherever in the world. That's simply not going to happen for nuclear plant deployed in the UK. Regulatory issues won't allow it. Without the Asian construction yards, modularisation doesn't make that much of a difference to costs in the scheme of things.

I seriously hope it happens. Until then, it's just vapour really.

[scotview]

I've just submitted my February readings and checked my usage/costs for the last three years. I've also had a look at the UK gas price history. There is zero correlation between UK wholesale gas price and energy cost. The figures below are for month of January, total energy.

2024 Bill £300 Usage 3158 kWh UK gas price 88 GBp/therm
2023 Bill £400 Usage 3112 kWh UK gas price 158 GBp/therm
2022 Bill £150 Usage 2881 kWh UK gas price 255 GBp/therm

There is no correlation between Cost of Consumer's Bill and Wholesale gas price. This is not an open market, looks like miss selling on an epic scale to me.

[Tedx]

An update on Highview Power / Compressed/liquid air energy storage. It seems they have had planning issues along with the inevitable COVID delays, but are now moving ahead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjERw-Ol-_s&t=10s

Cheap, easy construction, simple, well established technologies, no difficult to mine minerals. Seems like there's real potential here.

[XFool]

I've just submitted my February readings and checked my usage/costs for the last three years. I've also had a look at the UK gas price history. There is zero correlation between UK wholesale gas price and energy cost. The figures below are for month of January, total energy.

2024 Bill £300 Usage 3158 kWh UK gas price 88 GBp/therm
2023 Bill £400 Usage 3112 kWh UK gas price 158 GBp/therm
2022 Bill £150 Usage 2881 kWh UK gas price 255 GBp/therm

There is no correlation between Cost of Consumer's Bill and Wholesale gas price. This is not an open market, looks like miss selling on an epic scale to me.

I really don't know, I'm just guessing, but could it be you need to use look ahead pricing? That is, is the current price of fuel to the consumer a reflection of the current wholesale price of gas or does it in practice lag? Equally, is the wholesale price of gas reflected in future consumer prices rather than the current price?

I don't work in the industry and am not a direct shareholder in same!

[Tedx]

UK renewables industry concerned over government’s electricity market reform plan

if they're concerned, then it must be good for us.

The proposed shift to zonal pricing, aimed at restructuring the wholesale electricity market, is met with apprehension by industry leaders.

While zonal pricing theoretically aims to incentivise generation closer to demand and alleviate transmission grid constraints, concerns persist regarding its potential to introduce additional market uncertainty and inflate capital costs for renewable energy projects.

Hmmm.


https://www.energylivenews.com/2024/03/ ... form-plan/

[Tedx]

Re Conductering

Summary - existing pylons are ok and can be reused (saving a whole load of time on planning and permissions) & modern cables are much, much better than older cables in efficiency and logevity.

'Just have a think'

https://youtu.be/VKpDvCGqUv8?si=8FkWGCm3k6Kah0-8

[Hallucigenia]

ESO are firming up their plans for connecting up what could be 85GW of offshore wind, and other upgrades :
https://www.nationalgrideso.com/future- ... eyond-2030

[scotview]

I see the energy price cap is soon to be reduced by a further 7%.

Could someone have another go at explaining how the domestic energy market works. Will it ever return to a free market, without government manipulation and support from the tax payer?

[UncleEbenezer]

I see the energy price cap is soon to be reduced by a further 7%.

Could someone have another go at explaining how the domestic energy market works.

It's become a political tool. Feeds conveniently into headline rates of inflation, so will need a self-confident government to de-politicise it.

[BullDog]

I see the energy price cap is soon to be reduced by a further 7%.

Could someone have another go at explaining how the domestic energy market works. Will it ever return to a free market, without government manipulation and support from the tax payer?

With a change of government likely, the chances of that happening are probably less than they were a few days ago. IMO.

[UncleEbenezer]

I see the energy price cap is soon to be reduced by a further 7%.

Could someone have another go at explaining how the domestic energy market works. Will it ever return to a free market, without government manipulation and support from the tax payer?

With a change of government likely, the chances of that happening are probably less than they were a few days ago. IMO.

Why?

The current government is the most disastrously interventionist since before Thatcher, possibly longer. Its successor may or may not be just as bad.

[Tedx]

May is always a funny month for energy bills as it's around the time the heating goes off - but this year was more interesting than usual when it comes to energy use in kwh (all electric / E7 tariff & figures submitted online on the 1st of the month)

May 2019 = 466.01 20.04.19
May 2020 = 436 26.04.20
May 2021 = 633.95 26.05.21
May 2022 = 392.41 06.05.22
May 2023 = 354 09.05.23
May 2024 = 245.77 03.05.24


Its a weird one. At first I thought I had mis-typed the figures, but no, Ive double checked them. Then I thought it must be when the heating weas turned off (I think that explains the high May 21 reading) so I'm not really sure how to explain the 30% from last years all time low.

I completed a fairly major loft insulation project in October 2020 and had new windows/doors put in that year too.

May 24 was also the cheapest ever month cost wise at a couple of quid less then May 2020. if this months bill was at May 2020 prices it would have been 42% cheaper......

[DrFfybes]

May 24 was also the cheapest ever month cost wise at a couple of quid less then May 2020. if this months bill was at May 2020 prices it would have been 42% cheaper......

Did you get any nice jumpers for Xmas?

Paul

[Tedx]

We did get a couple of Oodies (with optional battery heating) for the van which I have worn in the house too (very comfy!)

....but then the heating wasn't turned off particulatly late (or early) though (and the heating is the vast bulk of our energy consumption)

The house next door is up for sale though - maybe they've unplugged their illegal connection to my house.

[Gersemi]

Well this May was the warmest on record - yes really.
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/n ... for-the-uk

[Tedx]

When you look at National Grid: Live

https://grid.iamkate.com/

...the gas generation never goes below about 2.5GW - it does go higher of course.

Take today, the gas generation has stayed around 1.9 - 2.5GW. As the sun has got higher, the renewable generation has increased to aound 22GW (from about 16GW earlier today) and as a result the imported electrcity has been reduced from about 6 to 2GW currently.

My question: That 2GW seems to be the floor - is that because we have to keep a certain amount of gas generators turning over? I'm guessing the excess either goes over to storage, Europe via the interconnectors.....or just gets dumped?

Cheers

[Tedx]

X-Links is still alive - Octopus Energy has just invested according to 'Just have a think'

https://youtu.be/-VtFmU5-ESw?si=eHJ0OZMti4Ku59vG

The Xlinks Morocco-UK Power Project will be a new electricity generation facility entirely powered by solar and wind energy combined with a battery storage facility. Located in Morocco’s renewable energy rich region of Guelmim Oued Noun, it will be connected exclusively to Great Britain via 4000km (2485 miles) HVDC sub-sea cables.

This first of a kind project will generate 11.5GW of zero carbon electricity from the sun and wind to deliver 3.6GW of reliable energy for an average of 19+ hours a day. This is enough to provide low-cost, clean power to the equivalent of over 7 million British homes and once complete, the project will be capable of supplying 8 percent of Great Britain’s electricity needs.

https://xlinks.co/morocco-uk-power-project/

Initially I thought it was daft running a flex from Africa to the UK....but in the video they mentioned the fact that we're quite happy to build oil and gas pipelines that are thousands of miles long.....so why not power connectors? It's a fair point!

Maybe interconnectors are the future - particularly when transporting electricity over different timezones and from places where the renewables profile is different.

[DrFfybes]

X-Links is still alive - Octopus Energy has just invested according to 'Just have a think'

[...]

Initially I thought it was daft running a flex from Africa to the UK....but in the video they mentioned the fact that we're quite happy to build oil and gas pipelines that are thousands of miles long.....so why not power connectors? It's a fair point!

Maybe interconnectors are the future - particularly when transporting electricity over different timezones and from places where the renewables profile is different.

That's the biggest problem isn't it? - I thought one of the problems was getting the power from the offshore wind farms near Scotland to the rest of the UK was a bottleneck. There are building projects on hold because of lack of power infrastructure.

The UK is not great for solar, with an average of under 5 hours of sunlight each day at 55 degees latitude, compared to 9 hours at 25 degrees, so international interconnects are the way forwards. Got to be better than moving boats of gas around the planet.

Paul

[UncleEbenezer]

The UK is not great for solar, with an average of under 5 hours of sunlight each day at 55 degees latitude, compared to 9 hours at 25 degrees, so international interconnects are the way forwards. Got to be better than moving boats of gas around the planet.

Paul

The UK is not bad for wind, and is world-leading in tidal energy. And for an added bonus, there's so much variation around our coastline that we have consistent, reliable power 24/7 without the need for connecting across timezones.

Or would be, if it invested seriously in anything at all before someone else has pioneered it and developed the technology.