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"“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
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- Lemon Quarter
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"“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
I came across this site in my travels. Some useful money-saving/money-making tips.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from-zero-to-hero-in-one-blog-post/
Worth a read - it's recommended to start with http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/06/meet-mr-money-mustache/
Would you agree?
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from-zero-to-hero-in-one-blog-post/
Worth a read - it's recommended to start with http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/06/meet-mr-money-mustache/
Would you agree?
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
Basically, he is right. That is what I did. The key is to spend only a fraction of your income. I started at a later age, and accumulated far more money than I will ever need by age 50. In the UK, you have the problem that getting a roof over your head is expensive, but some places are more expensive than others.
I looked at his nutritional recommendations, because that is something that I know about. Firstly, I consume 3,000 calories per day, not 2,000. This is nearer the average male energy consumption, as measured by doubly labelled water. Eating lots of eggs is not a good idea. Oil scores highly on calories per pound spent, but poorly on nutrients per pound spent. World Food Program rations add oil up to 30% of calories, to save money, but it is probably better not to do that.
$3 per day for food is a pretty lax target. This guy shoots for $1:
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2008nl ... odcost.htm
If you follow his advice, you do need to take Vitamin B12, but you are likely to be healthier than you are at present. Interestingly, it is possible to live for extended periods of time eating only potatoes, but I would not recommend that.
I looked at his nutritional recommendations, because that is something that I know about. Firstly, I consume 3,000 calories per day, not 2,000. This is nearer the average male energy consumption, as measured by doubly labelled water. Eating lots of eggs is not a good idea. Oil scores highly on calories per pound spent, but poorly on nutrients per pound spent. World Food Program rations add oil up to 30% of calories, to save money, but it is probably better not to do that.
$3 per day for food is a pretty lax target. This guy shoots for $1:
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2008nl ... odcost.htm
If you follow his advice, you do need to take Vitamin B12, but you are likely to be healthier than you are at present. Interestingly, it is possible to live for extended periods of time eating only potatoes, but I would not recommend that.
Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
Interesting reading at a time when my fellow mums in the school playground are all chattering about what they're buying for Christmas. Quite a few seem to shop as a hobby. I can't imagine wanting to retire as I enjoy my work but I do want to pay off my mortgage as soon as possible as this is my only debt.
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
GeoffF100 wrote:Basically, he is right. That is what I did. The key is to spend only a fraction of your income. I started at a later age, and accumulated far more money than I will ever need by age 50. In the UK, you have the problem that getting a roof over your head is expensive, but some places are more expensive than others.
What he doesn't point out enough is, quite frankly, the dirty little secret of PF blogs.
Pete and his wife earned a combined income of more than four times the average so by only spending the average he could (and did) save a lot of money.
Yet this is not the only problem of him bending the truth.
He lives next to a public park and includes this in the size of his garden.
He rallies against "clown cars" but owns three himself.
He makes $400,000 a year from his blog.
He is always happy to detail his living expenses but refuses to include what he spends on his "business" or his income.
etc, etc.
http://earlyretirementextreme.com is much better (and so is the ERE forum)
Vision25
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
cleo2002 wrote:Interesting reading at a time when my fellow mums in the school playground are all chattering about what they're buying for Christmas. Quite a few seem to shop as a hobby. I can't imagine wanting to retire as I enjoy my work but I do want to pay off my mortgage as soon as possible as this is my only debt.
Cleao2002, we were talking about not wanting to stop work because it was enjoyable recently. A number of staff have retired and they all said they'd thrived on it and would miss it. Now I enjoy my job, like the interaction but for the avoidance of doubt I'm only doing it for the money, if they stopped paying me I'd stay away. A colleague is looking to retire in 6 months, I'm very jealous as it's years before I'm out, he said he was looking at other activities to fill his time after "retirement" including coming back to the company with projects as a consultant. I asked him if he loved coming to work that much and wanted to fill his time why not do it for nothing as a volunteer post. He was very anti this suggestion, he said he deserved a salary for his time. So it appears he doesn't want to stop work just stop earning. With a mortgage to service and other defined expenses I have to keep an income coming in but I'd rather not have to turn in for the daily grind.
Most of us can't afford to stop work regardless of how much fun we have there.
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- Lemon Slice
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
So glad this board is here, it's been such a boon to me over the years.
Some interesting things in that blog re figures
As many will know, I'm a committed LBMMer with plans for early retirement. However, this is one time of year I am tempted into stupid purchases, I have really bad SAD and sometimes the lure of shiny things proves tempting, even they only cheer you up for ten minutes. Luckily I hate shopping so it's not so much that I'm tempted into shops, but friends show me what they've bought, I realise I will be wearing the same outfit probably, for the third Xmas day and New Year's Eve... but I think LBMM is so embedded in me now, I don't feel at risk of spending this year. In previous years I've bought stuff online, then wound up at the Post Office returning it!
I suppose there's whole new audiences for these types of blogs all the time. LBYM seems to come late to a lot of people, I was lucky to have you all to keep me on track from when I was about 25, I think!
Some interesting things in that blog re figures
As many will know, I'm a committed LBMMer with plans for early retirement. However, this is one time of year I am tempted into stupid purchases, I have really bad SAD and sometimes the lure of shiny things proves tempting, even they only cheer you up for ten minutes. Luckily I hate shopping so it's not so much that I'm tempted into shops, but friends show me what they've bought, I realise I will be wearing the same outfit probably, for the third Xmas day and New Year's Eve... but I think LBMM is so embedded in me now, I don't feel at risk of spending this year. In previous years I've bought stuff online, then wound up at the Post Office returning it!
I suppose there's whole new audiences for these types of blogs all the time. LBYM seems to come late to a lot of people, I was lucky to have you all to keep me on track from when I was about 25, I think!
Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
However, this is one time of year I am tempted into stupid purchases, I have really bad SAD and sometimes the lure of shiny things proves tempting, even they only cheer you up for ten minutes.
Hi Sunnypad, I know exactly what you mean about having SAD. This year I've tried combating it with yoga and I heartily recommend it to anyone. My teacher seems to put a great deal of thought into the needs of her group and no two lessons are ever the same. I find it incredibly stimulating for both body and spirit. I'm also taking a vitamin D supplement (when I remember).
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- 2 Lemon pips
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
I'm also taking a vitamin D supplement (when I remember).
I had been very low on Vit D, and had too many health issues around it. I read a lot about Vit D. Please take Vit K2 and Magnesium with it. Also, different people absorb it differently. This summer, I and my wife took around 20,000IU/day of VitD for a month... my reading went from 40 to 65 and hers from 30 to 95. It is quite important to get it tested and change dosage appropriately, and GPs are not happy to do it always... I use http://vitamindtest.org.uk/
The below book really made me understand how complicated and effective Vit D can be.. See the reviews.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Miraculous-Res ... +Vitamin+D
Good luck,
ap
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
That is a very high dose of Vitamin D, and well above the maximum recommended on either side of the Atlantic:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... report.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... report.pdf
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
While I agree with you about MMM being a bit of a con these days, to be fair he is still living the lifestyle (assuming you believe him). But Jacob at ERE gave it all up 5 years ago and went back to work in a very well paid job.
His blog posts are auto-recycled old posts from before 2011, so only the forum is current.
He currently cites his net worth as over 120 times his living expenses.
Not really the poster child anymore.
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
seekingbalance wrote:
While I agree with you about MMM being a bit of a con these days, to be fair he is still living the lifestyle (assuming you believe him). But Jacob at ERE gave it all up 5 years ago and went back to work in a very well paid job.
His blog posts are auto-recycled old posts from before 2011, so only the forum is current.
He currently cites his net worth as over 120 times his living expenses.
Not really the poster child anymore.
No, still the poster child as Jacob still only spends circa $7000 a year and still follows his philosophy.
Whereas amongst Petes (MMM) many failing are such things as "we support state education" but homeschool his own child.
I think this difference can be explained by IQ. Pete at about 120 was a competent programmer which allowed him to earn much more than average.
Jacob on 140 plus does something difficult until he has mastered it then like most really intelligent people moves onto something else. Hence, his Phd and physics research, peak oil, ERE, quant job. I wonder what will take his fancy next?
Vision25
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
Vision25 - interesting. I agree Jacob is clearly a smart guy, though I've never really understood IQ, more Yank thing to even know what yours is!
Is he definitely still living the $14k (2 of them!) lifestyle? I can't find any evidence of him saying this in recent times. His "about me" page is a 2010 post, and even his copyright tags says 2014.
Don't get me wrong, I was always quite a fan, but I thought he had mainly given it up. And even if he hasn't surely he can be criticised (if you want to call it that) for the same traits as you criticise MMM for having. His quant job apparently paid over $80,000 a year. It is easy to be frugal when you have 100's of K in the bank (and I'm not being nasty here, 'cos I a man that man, early retired, quite frugal, lots of savings).
SB
Is he definitely still living the $14k (2 of them!) lifestyle? I can't find any evidence of him saying this in recent times. His "about me" page is a 2010 post, and even his copyright tags says 2014.
Don't get me wrong, I was always quite a fan, but I thought he had mainly given it up. And even if he hasn't surely he can be criticised (if you want to call it that) for the same traits as you criticise MMM for having. His quant job apparently paid over $80,000 a year. It is easy to be frugal when you have 100's of K in the bank (and I'm not being nasty here, 'cos I a man that man, early retired, quite frugal, lots of savings).
SB
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
seekingbalance wrote:Vision25 - interesting. I agree Jacob is clearly a smart guy, though I've never really understood IQ, more Yank thing to even know what yours is!
Is he definitely still living the $14k (2 of them!) lifestyle? I can't find any evidence of him saying this in recent times. His "about me" page is a 2010 post, and even his copyright tags says 2014.
Don't get me wrong, I was always quite a fan, but I thought he had mainly given it up. And even if he hasn't surely he can be criticised (if you want to call it that) for the same traits as you criticise MMM for having. His quant job apparently paid over $80,000 a year. It is easy to be frugal when you have 100's of K in the bank (and I'm not being nasty here, 'cos I a man that man, early retired, quite frugal, lots of savings).
SB
There have been meet ups at his home so people know about his lifestyle. He wife spends more than him as a conscious decision btw.
His quant job pays over $90,000 I believe and I assume he took it because of the challenge, apparently he was headhunted for it.
The thing is, he developed ERE as a philosophy whereas MMM only does it to be (in your words) frugal. See the difference between them.
I also disagree with your final statement, it is always easy to be frugal what ever your level of wealth. Poor people are poor (in part) simply because they are not frugal but many frugal people have started off as poor and worked their way up.
Vision25
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
Vision25 wrote:Jacob on 140 plus does something difficult until he has mastered it then like most really intelligent people moves onto something else.
Would you be able to provide some more information on this comment please? Is it a known phenomenon or just a comment from life-experience?
Thanks,
sF
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
superFoolish wrote:Vision25 wrote:Jacob on 140 plus does something difficult until he has mastered it then like most really intelligent people moves onto something else.
Would you be able to provide some more information on this comment please? Is it a known phenomenon or just a comment from life-experience?
Thanks,
sF
I think its a known phenomenon but not widely accepted and I don't have any links.
From interactions with clever people that I have met it certainly appears to be true.
Vision25
ps I'm not that clever.
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- Lemon Slice
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
lots of people do seem to shop as a hobby. I have noticed that in my circle, these are the people who love their work or don't have to work for whatever reason.
last night I actually had a dream about this - sort of - my mum isn't well at the moment and there might be a point in my life where I pack in work and be a carer for either parent. I actually dreamt that my boss was telling me "you can't afford to give up work".
hmph.
I'm lucky in that my mortgage was paid when I inherited from my (very investment savvy) aunt. I often wonder what the magic number is for me re cash in the back for actually fully retiring. Everything you find to read is based on the idea that you spend a lot and go on holiday a lot.
last night I actually had a dream about this - sort of - my mum isn't well at the moment and there might be a point in my life where I pack in work and be a carer for either parent. I actually dreamt that my boss was telling me "you can't afford to give up work".
hmph.
I'm lucky in that my mortgage was paid when I inherited from my (very investment savvy) aunt. I often wonder what the magic number is for me re cash in the back for actually fully retiring. Everything you find to read is based on the idea that you spend a lot and go on holiday a lot.
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
Sunnypad wrote:I often wonder what the magic number is for me re cash in the back for actually fully retiring. Everything you find to read is based on the idea that you spend a lot and go on holiday a lot.
I wouldn't say I am extravagant but one thing I never economise on is holidays. Particularly long-haul holidays, and I will buy a business class or first class air ticket and stay in 5-star hotels. I just think I deserve it and bake that level of spend into my retirement projections.
It's not "cash in the bank" you need to retire but rather a portfolio that will, under most plausible scenarios, provide a sustainable cash flow that exceeds your projected income needs.
The way I computed that was to determine my income needs and then compute the size of the portfolio needed to yield that income assuming market averages. So if my income need is 50K a year and my portfolio has an annual yield of 2%, then I need 2.5 million (ignoring taxes for now).
If things get tight I can always run down the capital as I get older. And of course you can always sell that house at some point.
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
Loot, that's kind of what I meant by cash in the bank - the amount it will yield will vary though.
also I'm childfree so later on I can mortgage the flat and the bank can have it when I pop my clogs.
some people must think in terms of living off capital though - I mean say you were 60 and spending about £10k a year, assuming you'd live to 100....you wouldn't need that much. Also factoring in property here to pay for care homes etc.
also I'm childfree so later on I can mortgage the flat and the bank can have it when I pop my clogs.
some people must think in terms of living off capital though - I mean say you were 60 and spending about £10k a year, assuming you'd live to 100....you wouldn't need that much. Also factoring in property here to pay for care homes etc.
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: "“What do you mean you retired at 30?”"
Sunnypad wrote:Loot, that's kind of what I meant by cash in the bank - the amount it will yield will vary though.
also I'm childfree so later on I can mortgage the flat and the bank can have it when I pop my clogs.
some people must think in terms of living off capital though - I mean say you were 60 and spending about £10k a year, assuming you'd live to 100....you wouldn't need that much. Also factoring in property here to pay for care homes etc.
You'd be unlikely to be able to mortgage without a job, they are very wary of taking investment income against a mortgage.
But, anyway, other than that - the only person who can know how much you would need to retire is you.
I think I could manage, with no mortgage, on a net £1k pm. My unearned income is currently about £5kpa. My pensions are likely to bring in c£6k-7k I think. So, if I wait until my 'real' retirement age, then I am already there (if you add on, say, £8k state pension).
But, to retire earlier I'd need to probably triple my unearned income (ignoring the pension/s).
Like you, I could also draw down capital. I think actually you need more when you're younger to do things, when older you'll do fewer things so won't need as much. But of course the sooner you draw down, the lower your investment income....
Start by asking yourself how much you really need to live on, where would you live, what would be sensible in terms of activities etc.
Mel
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