Contactless cards

[k333]

One of my four cards has recently offered a very small promotion to go contactless. Now I have another. Any idea what is causing this enthusiasm?

- K

PS I really do like CL versus C&P

[stevensfo]

Possibly because they spent a lot of money preparing their card manufacturers and now see that the only people who like the system are mostly teenagers and students who couldn't care less if their cards are hacked cos they can't pay and don't care.

From what I see, the difference in time spent is non significant, so I'm suspicious why some places are still pushing contactless.

Until last year, people were saying that they had no choice. Not true. I don't have a single one and banks are now backtracking, apologising and issuing standard cards.

Steve

[Alaric]

From what I see, the difference in time spent is non significant, so I'm suspicious why some places are still pushing contactless.

What I've found I like about contactless is that if you are somewhere, like a pub, that insists on having pennies in its prices, that you don't end up with a pocketful of loose change. You do however get a credit or debit card statement clogged with small transactions.

[swill453]

What I've found I like about contactless is that if you are somewhere, like a pub, that insists on having pennies in its prices, that you don't end up with a pocketful of loose change. You do however get a credit or debit card statement clogged with small transactions.

In what way is that different from Chip & PIN?

Scott.

[GeoffF100]

I have got two of them. I tried a contactless payment in Asda once. There machine gave no feedback, and was harder than paying with a PIN, so I have not bothered since. The credit card that I use does not have a big credit limit on it so I am not too fussed about security. The card provider should pay up in the event of fraud anyway.

[Lootman]

One benefit is that you can use them to get in and out of tube stations and get the same discounts and caps as an Oyster card. In fact they can effectively replace the Oyster card on the Tube.

[k333]

What I've found I like about contactless is that if you are somewhere, like a pub, that insists on having pennies in its prices, that you don't end up with a pocketful of loose change. You do however get a credit or debit card statement clogged with small transactions.

In what way is that different from Chip & PIN?

Scott.

It really is faster. Try it. A convert from six weeks ago.

- K

[swill453]

It really is faster. Try it. A convert from six weeks ago.

I know. That wasn't what I was questioning.

Scott.

[jackdaww]

One benefit is that you can use them to get in and out of tube stations and get the same discounts and caps as an Oyster card. In fact they can effectively replace the Oyster card on the Tube.

===============================

on a rare visit to london - to see my football team - since relegated - i discovered this use for my solitary contactless , ie on the tube .

seems a no brainer to me for londoners.

otherwise i use it all the time in coffee shops etc , leaving my main card for bigger purchases.

my card does have a low credit limit and sometimes demands your PIN anyway .

i have not heard of any theft issues myself.

.

[jackdaww]

.
worth noting...

if you have several contactless cards in your wallet , be sure to use only one , ie dont wave your wallet at the reader .

.

[jockblue]

What I've found I like about contactless is that if you are somewhere, like a pub, that insists on having pennies in its prices, that you don't end up with a pocketful of loose change. You do however get a credit or debit card statement clogged with small transactions.

In what way is that different from Chip & PIN?

Scott.

It's slightly less annoying for the ten people waiting to get served behind you..

[stevensfo]

if you have several contactless cards in your wallet , be sure to use only one , ie dont wave your wallet at the reader .

If many RFID Safety wallet ads are to believed, you're stupid if you leave home without the cards encased in a wire-mesh, aluminium lined, titanium reinforced, bullet proof, force field surrounded, pan-dimensional protective wallet with cloaking device and self destruct mechanism.


Steve

[melonfool]

I have got two of them. I tried a contactless payment in Asda once. There machine gave no feedback, and was harder than paying with a PIN, so I have not bothered since. The credit card that I use does not have a big credit limit on it so I am not too fussed about security. The card provider should pay up in the event of fraud anyway.

There is a £30 transaction limit and a '3 per day' limit anyway, so max £90 per day, plus my bank actually seems to ask for authorisation randomly, so I don't think I've ever got to three transactions without being asked for the PIN.

The car park ticket machine at the station is not CL, but doesn't ask for a PIN at all. I've idly wondered what that is all about....

Mel

[swill453]

The car park ticket machine at the station is not CL, but doesn't ask for a PIN at all. I've idly wondered what that is all about....

It probably goes through as a "cardholder not present" transaction, also without CVV number.

Scott.

[melonfool]

The car park ticket machine at the station is not CL, but doesn't ask for a PIN at all. I've idly wondered what that is all about....

It probably goes through as a "cardholder not present" transaction, also without CVV number.

Scott.

Bit weird, considering I most definitely AM present!

I wonder if their prediliction for charging me four weeks after the date and in huge swathes instead of the small amounts I paid in, is linked to this?

Mel

[simoan]

Any idea what is causing this enthusiasm?

- K

This is very simple. The banks, Apple etc. get a cut of the transaction that they would not get if you pay with cash. It may only be a very small amount per transaction but it's a much bigger number than zero

One of my friends found another downside when paying for drinks in a pub recently... he went to pay with his shiny new credit card and the barman just took his card and swiped it over the contactless terminal without him even agreeing the bill. He had no intention of paying contactless anyway!

I work in data security and so hell will freeze over before I use contactless payments. There's a very simple rule that everyone in the security industry understands: "Convenience is the enemy of security". You have to ask yourself one question: If these cards are so secure, why is there a daily limit?

All the best, Si

[midnightcatprowl]

Contactless is really a response to more and more people using their Debit or Credit Card for every single purchase or most purchases. As a shopkeeper I can tell you there has been a big change in this over the last 10 years or so. Once upon a time, most people, not all but most, paid for smaller purchases with coins and notes and bigger purchases with their Debit or Credit Card. The number of people today who don't carry any money at all but only cards is ever rising.

There probably isn't so much difference in speed between Chip and Pin and Contactless for really efficient users of Chip and Pin but many people take quite a while to remember which way to put the card in and to get it into place and then a significant proportion of the population, once their card is in the machine, start meditating on which Pin it is for that particular card, some of them get it wrong and have to try another Pin, some of them phone their spouse to ask (I'm not joking) while the card sits in the machine and a queue builds up behind them and a small but trying few start hunting through their purse/wallet/bag for the bits of paper where they have written their Pin(s) which they then unfold in full view of all behind them...

When our machine was swopped for one which took contactless one of the most interesting things was that uptake was if anything higher among older as opposed to younger people.

[simoan]

Contactless is really a response to more and more people using their Debit or Credit Card for every single purchase or most purchases. As a shopkeeper I can tell you there has been a big change in this over the last 10 years or so. Once upon a time, most people, not all but most, paid for smaller purchases with coins and notes and bigger purchases with their Debit or Credit Card. The number of people today who don't carry any money at all but only cards is ever rising.

I agree that it makes things easier for a shopkeeper, however it would be naive to think that the banks and credit companies introduced contactless cards as a sign of largesse for shopkeepers . It's all about profit... profiting from transactions they never previously got a piece of... as long as that profit doesn't disappear with too many fraudulent transactions that is!

All the best, Si

[k333]

Contactless is really a response to more and more people using their Debit or Credit Card for every single purchase or most purchases. As a shopkeeper I can tell you there has been a big change in this over the last 10 years or so. Once upon a time, most people, not all but most, paid for smaller purchases with coins and notes and bigger purchases with their Debit or Credit Card. The number of people today who don't carry any money at all but only cards is ever rising.

There probably isn't so much difference in speed between Chip and Pin and Contactless for really efficient users of Chip and Pin but many people take quite a while to remember which way to put the card in and to get it into place and then a significant proportion of the population, once their card is in the machine, start meditating on which Pin it is for that particular card, some of them get it wrong and have to try another Pin, some of them phone their spouse to ask (I'm not joking) while the card sits in the machine and a queue builds up behind them and a small but trying few start hunting through their purse/wallet/bag for the bits of paper where they have written their Pin(s) which they then unfold in full view of all behind them...

When our machine was swopped for one which took contactless one of the most interesting things was that uptake was if anything higher among older as opposed to younger people.

I don't suppose that the card companies were a little reluctant to give younger people the CL. After all I would imagine that older people hardly ever lose their cards ..... up to a certain age I bet they have all the stats on this!

As for speed, if you take the time from taking my card out of my very small wallet (not much bigger than a card) doing the transaction and then getting it back into the wallet, it might be three seconds for CL compared to 15 seconds for C&P, the reason being that there are four bits that take longer:

1) Getting the card into the reader (OK .... one second longer so not much)
2) Waiting for Enter Pin
3) Entering PIN
4) Waiting for Remove Card

Also it is beyond me why people can't find some PIN that they can remember. It must be that they aren't aware that it can be changed. Or don't trust themselves to change it and not mess it up.

- K

[swill453]

2) Waiting for Enter Pin
3) Entering PIN

I always thought there should be scope for speeding this up. As soon as a card is inserted and is being read, it could be asking for the user to enter their PIN - after all we've had multiprocessing in computers for a long time now.

It would still be able to come up with the appropriate error if the card is wrongly inserted or unreadable, but for the 99.99% of normal cases it would save those vital few seconds.

(I guess the specification doesn't allow the PIN to be stored even for an instant in the machine and has to be passed straight through to the chip on the card, but it's the slowest element of hundreds of millions of transactions a day, I'm sure they could find some way of doing it securely.)

Scott.