*WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Practical discussions about equity High-Yield Portfolios (HYP) for income
Clariman
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*WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Clariman » November 11th, 2016, 1:54 pm

Hi. As I have posted elsewhere, I am a "live and let live" person, but LemonFool has made it clear that posters have to be respectful to each other. Please see my comments on the Biscuit Bar/Moderators discussion thread here viewtopic.php?f=21&t=307#p3656

We have had reports of problems on this board already, both by reported messages on LF and also comments on TMF about this board here. From TMF ....

You can see it happening on lemonfool already. The HYP Practical board has descended into farce. Hopefully it will settle down, but that probably needs one of the owners to step in and close off a few threads, at which point some people will get the hump.


To which my response was ...

If you want to email me any further details off board feel free. I'll deal with it. I never frequented those boards on TMF but have since gathered it has some 'history'. If people can't be respectful we'll suspend or close the board.


I have not read through the board, so cannot say whether these criticisms are justified. However, if the criticisms continue we will read its contents and make a judgement. If the criticisms are well founded and if it is hard to see one or two specific culprits, then we may have to suspend the board or close it down. If we lose a few members because of this then so be it.

Clariman & Stooz

88V8
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby 88V8 » November 11th, 2016, 3:01 pm

Greetings, o August one.
I think you would lose a large part of the members, including me, as this is my main interest.

There has always been disagreement about 'proper' HYP and its methodology, just as there is disagreement about 'proper' English.
Some posters - I won't mention Ianhugh who seems to have vanished some months ago thank goodness - have got rather hot under the collar in the past.

And equally, some people have been far too ready to press the Report button when they disagree with what is being said.
Gen posted about it here
http://boards.fool.co.uk/appeal-to-the- ... 53767.aspx
and anyone wishing to get themselves up to speed on the considerable history of this Board would do well to read what he wrote.

To come upon this lively discussion on what was one of TMF's busiest Boards, having no previous history here, and decide that it should be shut down would be a definite case of baby/bathwater. One wouldn't shut down the letters page of The Times.

It needs to be moderated by members with HYP history.
Perhaps those interested could put themselves forward and we can vote.

For a start, I nominate Gen.

V8

Gengulphus
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Gengulphus » November 11th, 2016, 3:38 pm

88V8 wrote:For a start, I nominate Gen.


Just to make certain people don't count their chickens, I should say that I'm not at all certain whether I will accept such nomination or not.

The chickens hatch when it's both been made clear what is and isn't on-topic on this forum (which for the time being is basically in the hands of Clariman and Stooz) and what this site's moderation policy is going to be - which types of behaviour it accepts and which it doesn't, and how it deals with those who misbehave.

Gengulphus

Arborbridge
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Arborbridge » November 11th, 2016, 3:39 pm

You can see it happening on lemonfool already. The HYP Practical board has descended into farce.



Frankly, I haven't a clue what this is referring to, neither have I seen anything resembling a farce. I've clearly missed out on those posts, but nothing has seemed untoward to me.

Some references to posts as examples might help, otherwise it's all a bit innuendo-ish.

Arb.

Lootman
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Lootman » November 11th, 2016, 3:59 pm

Gengulphus wrote:The chickens hatch when it's both been made clear what is and isn't on-topic on this forum (which for the time being is basically in the hands of Clariman and Stooz) and what this site's moderation policy is going to be - which types of behaviour it accepts and which it doesn't, and how it deals with those who misbehave.

Another thing any putative Mod would need to know is what is the expectation in terms of how long a reported or offensive post can endure before being removed? If the desire is to minimise that duration then that would inform how frequently that Mod would have to be checking the board, or at least checking their message inbox.

The closer it looks to a 24/7 responsibility, the less attractive the job might be perceived. And then there is the problem of different time zones too - not all users are in GMT. At minimum we might need two Mods per board.

The good news is that those two Mods could help define the rules and guidelines that will have to work with. Personally I'd suggest two opposite personalities based on the principle that if they do agree on something, it must be reasonable.

And no, I'm not volunteering.

Oh, and as it happens I agree with Arb. I haven't seen any fights here that didn't happen there. It's always been a volatile place, insofar as retired accountants and the like get worked up anyway.

Julian
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Julian » November 11th, 2016, 4:04 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
You can see it happening on lemonfool already. The HYP Practical board has descended into farce.



Frankly, I haven't a clue what this is referring to, neither have I seen anything resembling a farce. I've clearly missed out on those posts, but nothing has seemed untoward to me.

Some references to posts as examples might help, otherwise it's all a bit innuendo-ish.

Arb.


I was also a bit perplexed by that comment. Can anyone suggest which posts it might be referring to, assuming they're not ones that have been removed by now?

- Julian

Julian
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Julian » November 11th, 2016, 4:06 pm

I just noticed that I'm the only one to post on this thread who doesn't have a crown. Sorry to have intruded your majesties.

I'll get my coat....

- Julian

Breelander
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Breelander » November 11th, 2016, 4:24 pm

88V8 wrote:I think you would lose a large part of the members, including me, as this is my main interest.


Me too.

Breelander
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Breelander » November 11th, 2016, 4:29 pm

Julian wrote:I just noticed that I'm the only one to post on this thread who doesn't have a crown.


You're just 19 posts away from yours.

Raptor
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Raptor » November 11th, 2016, 4:37 pm

Julian wrote:I just noticed that I'm the only one to post on this thread who doesn't have a crown. Sorry to have intruded your majesties.

I'll get my coat....

- Julian


Just to annoy you even more..

Raptor.

Dod1010
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Dod1010 » November 11th, 2016, 4:49 pm

I think it is fair to say that some of the posts on the Introduction to High Yield Portfolio thread would have incurred the wrath of the mods on TMF. I deliberately made no contribution (I think!)

PinkDalek
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby PinkDalek » November 11th, 2016, 5:09 pm

Dod1010 wrote:I think it is fair to say that some of the posts on the Introduction to High Yield Portfolio thread would have incurred the wrath of the mods on TMF. I deliberately made no contribution (I think!)


It is relatively easy to check where you've posted by clicking on your username, then on "Search user’s posts".

On your second page you'll see this:

search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&author_id=103&start=20

PD

Clariman
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Clariman » November 11th, 2016, 5:09 pm

88V8 wrote:I think you would lose a large part of the members [if board is closed], including me, as this is my main interest.

We don't want to close any boards, but if we did we would live with the consequences. Remember we had no plans to have any users or any website a week ago, so if we ended up with 900 instead of 1400 fair enough. This isn't a commercial concern.

Gen posted about it here
http://boards.fool.co.uk/appeal-to-the- ... 53767.aspx
and anyone wishing to get themselves up to speed on the considerable history of this Board would do well to read what he wrote.


Thanks. I'll take a look.

To come upon this lively discussion on what was one of TMF's busiest Boards, having no previous history here, and decide that it should be shut down would be a definite case of baby/bathwater. One wouldn't shut down the letters page of The Times.


Point of order m'lud. This is not TMF'S busiest board: it is a new board on a new website. TMF are closing the board you refer to next week. We have opened a similar one here as a voluntary service to the community. If the equivalent TMF boards had lots of issues and history then we don't want those issues brought here. This is an opportunity for a new start, whatever has gone on before.

Clariman

robbelg
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby robbelg » November 11th, 2016, 5:20 pm

Clariman wrote:Point of order m'lud. This is not TMF'S busiest board: it is a new board on a new website. TMF are closing the board you refer to next week. We have opened a similar one here as a voluntary service to the community. If the equivalent TMF boards had lots of issues and history then we don't want those issues brought here. This is an opportunity for a new start, whatever has gone on before.

Clariman



I do wish we had recs

+1

Breelander
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Breelander » November 11th, 2016, 5:22 pm

Clariman wrote:This is not TMF'S busiest board: it is a new board on a new website.


Bear in mind that on TMF it ranked second busiest, second only to DAK ...

Code: Select all

 Board Name                            Last         30 Day
                                                    Total

 Does Anybody Know?                 11/11/16 15:19   989 
 High Yield - HYP Practical         10/11/16 11:13   641 
 Help with this Blasted Computer!   11/11/16 16:55   510 
http://boards.fool.co.uk/BestOf.asp?top ... submit.y=9

Gengulphus
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Posts: 415
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Gengulphus » November 11th, 2016, 5:37 pm

Breelander wrote:
Clariman wrote:This is not TMF'S busiest board: it is a new board on a new website.


Bear in mind that on TMF it ranked second busiest, second only to DAK ...

Code: Select all

 Board Name                            Last         30 Day
                                                    Total

 Does Anybody Know?                 11/11/16 15:19   989 
 High Yield - HYP Practical         10/11/16 11:13   641 
 Help with this Blasted Computer!   11/11/16 16:55   510 
http://boards.fool.co.uk/BestOf.asp?top ... submit.y=9


That's second highest of the boards that are eligible for the "Best Of". A quick check of an obvious suspect among those that aren't says that LoST's post number has incremented by close to 1600 over the last 30 days...

Gengulphus

daveh
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Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:06 am

Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby daveh » November 11th, 2016, 5:48 pm

I've not read all the topics, but the only one that was at all argumentative was The Introduction to HYP one that has been locked and I thought that from what I'd seen the discussion was reasonably civil unless posts have been removed that I missed.

The argument seems to be over what can and cannot be posted here. At the moment most use seems to be on this the High Yield HYP Practical Board and almost nothing is on the High Yield - Strategies board.

Depending on how things are moderated I might have problems as I have in the past posted about my HYP on the old equivalent TMF board to here, including an annual update in January. In the past this hasn't been a problem, but my HYP does have one preference share and 3 dividend orientated ETFs in addition to 30 or so high yield shares. I treat the lot as one single portfolio and would expect that the update would be OK here. I'd also expect some brief discussion of why I have the ETFs and preference shares to be OK here, but would, as I've done in the past at TMF, ask questions about the ETFs on the Passive Investment board and the banking preference shares on the Banking Board. I'd also expect discussions on a mostly ETF or Investment Trusts based High Yield portfolio to be discussed on the Strategies board.

Maybe we need a FAQ on what should be where asap.

88V8
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby 88V8 » November 11th, 2016, 6:01 pm

At the moment it seems to me we are missing three things:

1 FAQ. Without an agreed FAQ there is no template against which to moderate. And it's not just a matter of language. This is a technical board, the FAQ are/were quite detailed. We need to get on with agreeing the initial FAQ amongst ourselves. A voting system might help.

2 Recs. When I have posted in favour of a Recs system. it had not occurred to me that they are also helpful in achieving Board unity. As present, there is no way for anyone unfamiliar with the Board to evaluate the contributors. Pyad, Gen, have no greater voice than a vociferous newbie.
Now, one may say that this creates confirmation bias, I myself have said it once or twice. But in terms of making it clear what we approve of and do not, Recs are an invaluable shorthand.

3 Obviously, we need Mods. Three, I would say, for sickness/holiday cover if nothing else. If one of them is in the US to cover that time zone, I would be happy provided they know their onions.

There will always be arguments about HYP. That's no bad thing.
For the time being, inevitably the busiest Boards will generate the most Reports. It's a hallmark of success. A feature, not a fault.

V8

88V8
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby 88V8 » November 11th, 2016, 6:06 pm

daveh wrote:I might have problems as I have in the past posted about my HYP on the old equivalent TMF board to here, including an annual update in January. In the past this hasn't been a problem, but my HYP does have one preference share and 3 dividend orientated ETFs
Maybe we need a FAQ on what should be where asap.


That post of Gen's I referenced dealt with the Practical/Strategies split. The Strategies Board was somewhat the Cinderella.

In my HYP there are a jolly sight more than three Preference Shares, PIBS, Trusts. The FAQ say/said that the HYP as discussed here is predominantly composed of equities. If anyone starts hollering about your Prefs, you can remind them.......

V8

Clariman
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Clariman » November 11th, 2016, 6:22 pm

My final comments on this board in particular.

If the posts here have just constituted civil and polite debate, with some discussion about what is on and off-topic then that sounds fine. As I have said a number of times, my general outlook is live and let live, but with some caveats which I have written about a few times, so will not repeat again. Thanks for your attention :)

C


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