*WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Practical discussions about equity High-Yield Portfolios (HYP) for income
ap8889
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby ap8889 » November 11th, 2016, 6:39 pm

I have read just about every thread and have seen little to fret about, just good old fashioned well intentioned debate. The HYP purists will have their preferences, the broader income seekers will express their views also. It's a big church. The essence of LTBH, high yield dividend investing may be all or part of a portfolio and the debate simply reflects that.

In summary: The board is in rude health!

staffordian
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby staffordian » November 11th, 2016, 7:13 pm

Perhaps its time to say that this board is for discussing the practicalities of running an HYP and not for discussing what constitutes an HYP.

The definitions on TMF served reasonably well and perhaps ought to be accepted here in the short term at least.

As we all know, everyone's portfolio and attitude varies, otherwise there would be little discussion.

I say let's focus on posting about portfolios, about HYP shares even perhaps the odd high yielding IT constituent or fixed interest component of a predominantly shares based 'folio and leave the arguing about exactly what constitutes an HYP aside.

If anyone then objects to discussions of these less mainstream constituents, all they need to do is skip to the next thread.

I'd hate for these boards to go just because we can't decide what to post on them!

Lootman
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Lootman » November 11th, 2016, 7:29 pm

ap8889 wrote:I have read just about every thread and have seen little to fret about, just good old fashioned well intentioned debate.

I think what happened was that there was a disagreement about what the new board was for, which led to a disagreement about whether we should even discuss that. Then someone cited that disagreement here, whereupon we disagreed here about whether there had been a disagreement there.

Rude health indeed!

peterh
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby peterh » November 11th, 2016, 7:49 pm

robbelg wrote:
Clariman wrote:Point of order m'lud. This is not TMF'S busiest board: it is a new board on a new website. TMF are closing the board you refer to next week. We have opened a similar one here as a voluntary service to the community. If the equivalent TMF boards had lots of issues and history then we don't want those issues brought here. This is an opportunity for a new start, whatever has gone on before.

Clariman


I do wish we had recs

+1


Agreed!

Like others have posted, I haven't noticed anything farcical so far either. However, I hope that the new board here can shrug off some of the dogmatic traits the the TMF board seemed (to this long term lurker, at least) to display. Occasionally, it was like reading the minutes of a meeting of The People's Front of Judea. Or the Judean People's Front, for that matter.

Peter (likely to be crownless for a while)

peterh
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby peterh » November 11th, 2016, 8:02 pm

Lootman wrote:I think what happened was that there was a disagreement about what the new board was for, which led to a disagreement about whether we should even discuss that. Then someone cited that disagreement here, whereupon we disagreed here about whether there had been a disagreement there.

Rude health indeed!


Ha! I took too long writing my post to see yours, but that's the sort of thing I was thinking of.

Do we need a lengthy list of FAQs that are then used to beat posters up? The aims of the board could be summed up in two or three sentences.

stooz
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby stooz » November 11th, 2016, 8:28 pm

I assume the point is discuss ideas for financial gains or security?
Any telling off of what others are allowed to do seems like bullying and that's not going to cut it.
I love a good debate. Name calling? No.

What I don't have is time.
I would rather be working on the recs tool than typing this...
Our getting mods sorted, or writing the rules.
Anything that makes this place better. So any time lost by modding one section is a detrement to your own system and affects everyone else to.
I hope you understand.
So if modding this becomes a burden to improving the site outside the hyp rooms, then a brief padlock is available in the tools while better controls are written 1st.

I do hope you can play nicely while I sort the basics first?

MDW1954
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby MDW1954 » November 11th, 2016, 8:44 pm

Stooz,

This is a *good* board, and most posters play nicely. But historically, there have been issues, which is why TMF split the board into HYP Strategies and HYP Practical. Maybe talk to Jon (Tarantula) at TMF for some background, if you and Clariman didn't follow the HYP boards? That said, I haven't seen anything out of line on any posts I've read.

I am happy to ask him on your behalf, if you like.

MDW1954/ Fool writer Malcolm Wheatley

Wizard
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Wizard » November 11th, 2016, 10:37 pm

MDW1954 wrote:...which is why TMF split the board into HYP Strategies and HYP Practical...


As I posted on another thread, no it was not "HYP Strategy" it was High Yield Strategy. For the discussion that has been going on here I do not think that is pedantry but actually the crux of it all.

I started in this debate as somebody who was not a regular on the TMF equivalent lard looking for a wider debate. But once explained to me the distinction was pretty clear and seems a reasonable approach. If people keep referring to HYP Pracical and HYP Strategy IMHO it won't help get passed the current debate on TLF as people will want to know where to discuss non-HYP compliant high yield.

Terry.

Deev8
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Deev8 » November 12th, 2016, 5:29 am

Wizard wrote:As I posted on another thread, no it was not "HYP Strategy" it was High Yield Strategy. For the discussion that has been going on here I do not think that is pedantry but actually the crux of it all.


Yes that - combined with an FAQ that explains what is meant by the term "High Yield Portfolio" - really is the crux of the issue.

Dave

Itsallaguess
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Itsallaguess » November 12th, 2016, 6:04 am

stooz wrote:
So any time lost by modding one section is a detrement to your own system and affects everyone else to.

I hope you understand.

So if modding this becomes a burden to improving the site outside the hyp rooms, then a brief padlock is available in the tools while better controls are written 1st.

I do hope you can play nicely while I sort the basics first?


I've tried to stay out of the current disagreements here, as I don't think they are at all helpful to the work Stooz and Clariman are currently trying to do on the wider Lemon Fool website over the short to medium term, but I've posted on the TMF board in answer to another poster there discussing a similar subject around the High-Yield boards here, so here's a link for anyone interested -

http://boards.fool.co.uk/i-appreciate-t ... 59658.aspx

I'd appreciate any comments to be posted on that TMF thread rather than here, for the reasons given above.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

idpickering
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby idpickering » November 12th, 2016, 7:53 am

I for one, am saddened that a thread such as this is even in existence on this board. We are all adults. Let's behave as such. If you can't, go away.

Regards,

Ian.

Dod1010
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Dod1010 » November 12th, 2016, 8:51 am

I agree Ian and in fact my relative lack of posting over the last couple of days is because I think that a lot of the discussion has been self indulgent and unnecessary, from all sides. The only Board I am really interested in is HYP or to put it more clearly a Board dealing with the issues in running a High Yield Portfolio. I do not think that needs a definition, the clue is in the expression.

Personally I think we need to get away from 'This is my system and this is all that can be discussed here' . As I have said many times, the needs of a drawer of income to live off are quite different from those of a long term builder of a HYP but we have been able to muddle along. Likewise, whether you are a tinkerer or a 'purist' does not matter a jot; it is what works for you that matters.

That then allows us to discuss what does matter, the merits of one share against another, or even one sector against another, the sort of 'safety' measures to put in place and so on, all the classic high yield stuff we find useful in running such a portfolio.

It is disrespectful of those who have been indulging themselves in petty arguments to use the Boards for their own narrow viewpoint and as I understand it this is a voluntary site and those who run it are to be congratulated in getting it up and running so quickly. As they have said some matters are still in the development stage and they should not be wasting their time trying to keep the peace.

toofast2live
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby toofast2live » November 12th, 2016, 10:24 am

Oh for goodness sake! Look at all the threads below and the discussion that is going and then look at this thread - it's silly.

Put a padlock on this and the one above it and let's get cracking on those HYP threads below.

simoan
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby simoan » November 12th, 2016, 10:53 am

idpickering wrote:I for one, am saddened that a thread such as this is even in existence on this board. We are all adults. Let's behave as such. If you can't, go away.

Regards,

Ian.


When I enter a friends house I give them a gift and take my shoes off. Others just walk in with muddy shoes and ask where the toilet is.

All the best, Si

Gengulphus
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Gengulphus » November 12th, 2016, 2:32 pm

Dod1010 wrote:Personally I think we need to get away from 'This is my system and this is all that can be discussed here' . ...


I half agree. The part of it that we have to get away from is 'This is my system and ...' - the idea that the poster's own preferences should dictate what can be discussed on a board.

The part of it that we must not get away from is 'this is all that can be discussed here'. Not having limits on what can be discussed on a board just leads to every board becoming an "Everything Under The Sun" board - which would be useful only to those willing to sift through the vast amounts of material such boards would contain! To avoid both that and having individual user's preferences dictating what can be discussed on a board, there have to be agreed topic boundaries, and what they are has to be determined in some way by the collective preferences of board users. And the sensible way to do that is IMHO based on common collective interests - for example, by and large people are either interested in being BTL landlords or not, and so a board named something like "Property Investment Practical" makes sense: by choosing whether to post on that board or another, posters save readers a lot of sifting through posts they're not interested in at very little cost to themselves.

That pre-sifting by posters won't do the job perfectly: readers will have to do some sifting themselves. But it needs to be reduced to an easily manageable job for the majority of readers. For example, I'm interested in cycling for everyday transport / exercise purposes, but am not interested in competitive cycling, whether by taking part in a cycling race myself or as a spectator of e.g. the Tour de France. The Cycling board covers both and so is not ideal from my point of view - but reading the everyday transport / exercise stuff and skipping past the competitive stuff is a pretty easy job for me, so it's tolerable. If on the other hand the board concerned were an "All Aspects of Physical Sport and Exercise" one, there would probably be vast amounts of stuff about football and many other sports I have no interest in to sift through to get a comparatively small amount of stuff I am interested in - and I would almost certainly decide the job was not a worthwhile use of my time, and so end up being driven away by the decision to have set the topic boundary very broadly.

So having topic boundaries is IMHO essential, and they have to be set according to collective reader preferences with the aim of making the boards tolerable for the vast majority of readers. And they have to be agreed, at least to a very large extent - moderation won't work unless the moderators share an understanding of what the topic boundaries are, and self-moderation won't work unless we all share such an understanding. That sharing won't be perfect, of course - one of the reasons for having moderators will be to deal with failures of self-moderation - but it will have to be pretty good if a volunteer-moderator-based system is to work.

So I think we are going to have to sort out the board topic issue - but everybody is going to have to accept that that will involve making compromises to accommodate others' views, and that the resulting structure may well end up being no better than tolerable from their own point of view.

And finally, I don't think we're going to be able to make constructive progress on sorting the issue out until we have a good way to judge board users' preferences - which IMHO means that we need polls in order to make such progress.

Gengulphus

staffordian
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby staffordian » November 12th, 2016, 4:53 pm

By and large I agree with the points made above by Gengulphus, especially that a method is needed of getting a consensus on the boundaries of topics that are seen as relevant to this board.

But surely, in the mean time, as I hinted at above and as others have explicitly stated, surely a continuation of the guidelines which TMF used would be the best short term approach.

It worked reasonably well over there and as the old saying goes, if it aint broken, don't fix it.

Staffordian

idpickering
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby idpickering » November 12th, 2016, 5:43 pm

staffordian wrote:
But surely, in the mean time, as I hinted at above and as others have explicitly stated, surely a continuation of the guidelines which TMF used would be the best short term approach.

It worked reasonably well over there and as the old saying goes, if it aint broken, don't fix it.

Staffordian


I agree with your comment above Staffordian. Considering that we've just moved the HYP Practical Board, and our community, here rather than there, the common sense thing to do, would be to leave the rules as is. Status Quo and all that. I don't understand why there can be any need for angst.

Ian.

Lootman
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Lootman » November 12th, 2016, 6:30 pm

idpickering wrote:Considering that we've just moved the HYP Practical Board, and our community, here rather than there, the common sense thing to do, would be to leave the rules as is. Ian.

Ian, if this migration is merely a matter of a one-to-one transfer of all TMF boards here, then I agree. The problem as I see it is that, for practical reasons, there are going to be far fewer boards here than on TMF. Dozens rather than hundreds. So clearly there will be board mergers and a resultant broadening of scope. For instance, Gengulphus wrote this earlier:

"I've posted a suggestion about a new "Games, Puzzles and Riddles" forum in the "Interests - Culture, Leisure, Food and Nature" area". I also think that would work even though it means that chess players will have to sift through bridge topics, and foodies will see posts on wildlife. But notice how many different TMF boards are being merged there.

So this may be an issue we have to deal with even if we don't want to. Although that said there are currently two HY boards - Practical and Strategies - so maybe we'll get away with the old rules. Or maybe not if the Strategies board doesn't see more activity (i.e. Luniversal doesn't visit) and gets canned.

Personally I can live with seeing HY topics on ITs, bonds and the like all grouped together,because they are all related. But I don't want to see topics on currency speculation or day trading.

One final point. The way I am using this site so far places very little emphasis on the board structure. Rather I look for "new posts" since my last sign-in, and then scan for either topic headlines that interest me or contributions from my favourite Lemons. As posting volumes increase that may prove to be untenable, of course. But what it shows is that the work and time involved in sifting out commentary that doesn't interest you may be easier on this site, due to its different internal structure and its more advanced technology and features.

Breelander
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Breelander » November 12th, 2016, 8:39 pm

Lootman wrote: One final point. The way I am using this site so far places very little emphasis on the board structure. Rather I look for "new posts" since my last sign-in, and then scan for either topic headlines that interest me or contributions from my favourite Lemons. As posting volumes increase that may prove to be untenable, of course. But what it shows is that the work and time involved in sifting out commentary that doesn't interest you may be easier on this site, due to its different internal structure and its more advanced technology and features.


What you need is the equivalent of a 'My Fool' - fortunately there is a very near equivalent. Bookmark this: ucp.php?i=main&mode=subscribed then name the bookmark 'My Lemon Fool'. Only boards you subscribe to will be listed here - marked red for unread posts, black if nothing new. Makes navigation to the things you care about a doddle.

The added advantage over the old 'My Fool' is that you can subscribe to individual threads from outside you favourite boards and they will appear here too.

Gengulphus
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Re: *WARNING* Play fair and keep it calm on this board

Postby Gengulphus » November 13th, 2016, 12:04 am

Breelander wrote:What you need is the equivalent of a 'My Fool' - fortunately there is a very near equivalent. Bookmark this: ucp.php?i=main&mode=subscribed then name the bookmark 'My Lemon Fool'. Only boards you subscribe to will be listed here - marked red for unread posts, black if nothing new. Makes navigation to the things you care about a doddle.

The added advantage over the old 'My Fool' is that you can subscribe to individual threads from outside you favourite boards and they will appear here too.


I think there's one other detail of that method that is worth mentioning: if you subscribe to a board (forum) or thread (topic), you're liable to get a lot of notifications by default. You'll probably want to go to ucp.php?i=ucp_notifications&mode=notification_options and turn some of them off!

And I'll also mention an alternative I'm currently using, where the bookmarked link is ucp.php?i=ucp_main&mode=bookmarks and you turn on the "Someone creates a topic in a forum to which you are subscribed" notification option (and as above, turn off any other notification options that swamp you with notifications). You subscribe to the boards whose threads you might be interested in, but you don't subscribe to any threads: instead, you go through the list of the board's threads, using the "Bookmark topic" link accessed from the "spanner" menu at the top and bottom of the list of the thread's posts to express interest in a thread and leaving the thread alone if not interested. Thereafter, whenever you receive a notification about a new topic, you do the same: leave it alone if not interested, use the "Bookmark topic" link if interested. If you come across the occasional isolated thread outside your subscribed boards that you want to read, you can also use "Bookmark topic" on it. And if you lose interest in a thread, you can use the "Remove from bookmarks" link in the same place to get rid of it.

Bree's method works better if you're interested in every thread on a board, because you don't have to go through such a board using "Bookmark topic" on every topic and thereafter use it whenever you get a notification about a new topic on the board. Mine works better if you want to be ongoingly selective about which of a board's threads you're interested in - e.g. if you want to read the chess threads on a games board, but not the bridge threads - because each new thread is brought to your attention automatically for a decision about whether you want to read it. Both work fine for the occasional isolated thread.

I haven't yet decided which I prefer, and won't decide until it's become clearer to me to what extent things I am interested in and things I am not interested in are getting lumped together in the same board.

Gengulphus


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