motorhome mould

[vrdiver]

Hi All,

Hoping for some advice before I send my email to the motorhome dealer!

We bought our motorhome, new, collecting it in April 2016. The dealer fitted an awning on our request as part of the original sale agreement.

Whilst up in Scotland at the end of September, we spotted water running down the inside of the top cupboards, most probable cause being a poor seal where the awning had been fitted (water was coming in at each of the three brackets used to attach the awning in three different cupboards).

We contacted the dealer, send photos of the problem and returned the vehicle to them the following week. We also emailed a list of "teething problems" that needed to be sorted whilst they had the vehicle. This was followed up by telephone calls and a run through of the issues when we dropped it off.

Went to collect it today (it took a while as the vehicle had to go to a Peugeot garage for one of the issues). When we inspected the work, water was actually still dripping down the inside of the cupboard and mould is now growing in the cupboards and also coming out of a side unit - suggesting damp is established inside the side wall, if not everywhere. The vehicle is probably now "seeded" with mould spores due to being left in this condition.

We left the vehicle at the dealer, as the manager was away and I am now considering my choices.

My initial reaction is to demand a new replacement or full refund, as the issue occurred within 6 months and I don't believe mould can be eliminated once it's established, but before sounding off in a fit of rage, I'm hoping some calmer, more knowledgeable Fools can advise me.

VRDiver

[quelquod]

If the walls of the motor home are the usual kind of sandwich construction, as is most likely, a lot depends on the extent of water ingress. Whether or not the entry points are now sealed, there's really little way for any moisture trapped in the wall to escape. I had a similar problem with a (Lunar) caravan where there was a lack of sealing at one point and after a year or so the caravan had to be returned to the manufacturer for the affected wall to be stripped out and rebuilt as the inner skin steadily turned to mouldy mush.i think I'd get it checked with a damp meter as if there's evidence of damp reaching well down the wall you may have a substantial problem.

[vrdiver]

Sent an email to the dealer, summarising history to date and stating I wanted either a replacement vehicle or money back. The response was that they'd wiped down the mould (with Milton's solution), checked for water (found none) and were ready to return the vehicle to me.

I've now escalated this to their after sales service manager, as the above is just "cosmetic" without actually getting the mould out from within the side wall itself. Won't hear anything until after the New Year, as the dealer is now shut for Christmas.

The motorhome is an "alko" structure, rather than wood, but the interior (inner wall facings, cupboards etc are wood, so I'm still concerned about mould taking root unless properly removed.

Too early to think of lawyers yet, but other than keeping records of all communications, is there anything else I should be doing?

VRD

[quelquod]

The motorhome is an "alko" structure, rather than wood, but the interior (inner wall facings, cupboards etc are wood, so I'm still concerned about mould taking root unless properly removed.

I don't know anything about "alko" structures or for that matter motorhome-specific construction, however the standard approach in caravans for many years has been a sandwich of polystyrene or other solid insulation between a metal outer skin and a thin plywood inner skin. Likely yours is the same. Rigid, light and well-insulated, but any ingress of moisture due to puncture of the metal or lack of sealant is unable to escape and invariably leads to mould and in extremis rotting of the inner ply and disintegration of the wall. As I said earlier, I suggest you have the wall tested for dampin the area of the mould and outwards from it to determine the extent. If it's damp it will rot, just a question of time. Moisture meters are cheap.

FWIW all dealers routinely check for damp in this way in trade-ins or during annual maintenance. Serious if missed or ignored.

[ExPfletcher]

Are you quite sure you mean Alko Construction? May be you are thinking of Bailey's Alu Tech construction?

Alko refers to the chassis systems in motorbikes and caravans and has nothing to do with the outer shell. Alu Tech systems are largely centered around reducing external fittings so may be compromised by a dealer added awning. They also rave about an inner plastic second line of defence for water ingress. Which will have also clearly been breached if water was running down the inside. Wall panels are still laminated and I personally would be worried.

Please be quite sure of your facts when writing to the dealer or manufacturer as nothing will undermine your case more than using the wrong terminology.

Have you tried looking on the motorhomefacts website? Their forum's full of info and posts from users re rejecting vehicles as unfit. Haven't been on for quite some time but used to be free to browse and to post 3 times before having to pay a subscription - original owner of site sold on so things might have changed. Used to be a very useful site for all things motorhoming. Hth

[vrdiver]

Are you quite sure you mean Alko Construction? May be you are thinking of Bailey's Alu Tech construction?

Alko refers to the chassis systems in motorbikes and caravans and has nothing to do with the outer shell. Alu Tech systems are largely centered around reducing external fittings so may be compromised by a dealer added awning. They also rave about an inner plastic second line of defence for water ingress. Which will have also clearly been breached if water was running down the inside. Wall panels are still laminated and I personally would be worried.

Please be quite sure of your facts when writing to the dealer or manufacturer as nothing will undermine your case more than using the wrong terminology.

Have you tried looking on the motorhomefacts website? Their forum's full of info and posts from users re rejecting vehicles as unfit. Haven't been on for quite some time but used to be free to browse and to post 3 times before having to pay a subscription - original owner of site sold on so things might have changed. Used to be a very useful site for all things motorhoming. Hth

Many thanks ExPfletcher, You are quite correct, it is Alu Tech (although the chassis is Alko). Motorhomefacts is also an excellent resource. I'm not a member yet, but putting "site:http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/" followed by the relevant search term into google works very nicely.

We won't be talking to the dealer until they reopen in January, so will update progress then.

VRD

[Mike88]

You mention Motorhomefacts as a source of advice which is true. Another decent source is the outandaboutlive site here:

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/for ... Matters/3/

[swill453]

There are quite a few active Facebook groups which would be useful, such as Motorhome & Campervan Technical Advice https://www.facebook.com/groups/1086325028155145/

Scott.

[vrdiver]

A progress update.

After a lot of fuss and some pretty poor after sales communication, re-quoting the Consumer Rights Act 2015 with the specifics of their failure to repair, I have now been offered a choice of proper repair (complete strip down of the internal structure and new wood and units to replace those affected by water ingress) or a refund as per the Act, or a new 2017 van, should I make up the difference (prices have gone up, but so has the spec and I would also lose some of the original purchase price due to having had amenity of the vehicle for just under six months).

If I delay my decision until the remedial work is done (they are going ahead anyway, as the Sales Manager has refused to take the unit for resale from Service until it is done!) do I weaken my position? Is there anything I need to state so as to ensure I don't accidentally waive my rights to refund should we decide to go that way.

I'm not keen on the refund, except as a last resort: we bought the motorhome because it's exactly what we wanted and if they had offered this repair initially, I'd be overjoyed. My concern is that having been fobbed off once, I want to make sure the repair is done properly*, else have nothing to do with it.

VRD


*The dealer has offered to send me a photo diary of the strip-down and repair so that I can see what is happening as it progresses. They are located 90 minutes away, so daily visits to check on progress are not practical.

[PaulBullet]

My view is all companies screw uo.

The good ones correct the situation once someone with the power finds out and corrects it.

From what you have said they look now like they are a good company as they are resolving the issue and I would stay with them. However if you feel they are only doing it because of the legal threats then maybe they are not a good company and I would move.

Paul

[quelquod]

When I had my similar problem on a Lunar caravan I accepted a repair. In my case it was returned to the factory for the side to be rebuilt. My view then (and I think it would still be the same) was that I would rather keep the van as it had been through the usual niggles and fixes, I was otherwise happy with it, and I wasn't keen to shell out more cash for a new van which would likely have its share of new niggles.
I think in your case it might come down to the capabilities of the repairer (I take it that this is not the manufacturer). With the manufacturer I'd have few doubts. You would need to be convinced that they would do an equivalent job.
All in all this sounds like an excellent,fair outcome. Well done!

[pendas]

I'd be tempted to exchange for a new model, not having the confidence that the dealer has the necessary skills to make a good job.

After all, it was they who bodged the fitting of the awning and caused the leak in the first place.

The inner plywood wall and the outer aluminium are bonded to a polystyrene core under pressure at the manufacturers. Removing part of the inner wall will damage the polystyrene core which will have to be replaced. Quite how this can then be successfully bonded to provide the original strength of the panel I don't know.

[quelquod]

Remove all fittings from side wall.
Remove wall (or panel) and discard.
Fit new wall (or panel).
Refit fittings.

Before committing get a full breakdown of the repair proposed.
If its proposed to replace only part of a wall ensure that the damp hasn't travelled beyond it.

I don't think I'd necessarily write off the dealership, depends on their facilities etc.
Manufacturers don't always get it right either. In the case of my caravan they hadn't adequately sealed the joint between two aluminium sheets and water ingressed at several points almost the length of the side of the caravan.

[Mike88]

I wouldn't entrust a dealer who couldn't even fit an awning to do anything let alone a major repair to remedy damp. However there might not be a practical alternative to a dealer repair. The problem is that Lunar Motorhomes are made in Italy (I think) so a repair by the manufacturer might be out of the question. Having said that I know somebody who has had such a repair done to his Rimor in Italy by the manufacturer (possibly Trigano) but he had to deliver the vehicle to the factory in Tuscany and wait for a few days until the work was completed.

Personally I think a refund is by far the best option.