Boss telling workforce to download and use app?

[stevensfo]

Sorry, not sure if this the right board.

I just heard from a former colleague that their boss is insisting on everyone downloading Signal and joining a group so they can remain in instant contact.

Not sure why Signal rather than Whatsapp, but apparently it's more secure. He is in the Pharm industry.

The thing is, he expects everyone to do this on their own phone, not a phone given to them by the institute.

If it were me, I'd tell them where to stick their phone, but I'm on the point of stopping work whereas this ex-colleague is younger and doesn't want to cause problems.

Can a boss force people to do this?

Steve

PS I have loads of old Whatsapp groups on my phone linking me to work colleagues, but all unofficial, light hearted and never used for serious stuff.

[DrFfybes]

They'd have to buy me a smartphone first
I presume their employer doesn't expect them to provide their own laptop as well?

And in reality there is your answer, you should never assume staff have certain items if you require them for work unless it was stipulated at time of employment (eg builders/mechanics and tools, waiting staff and dress code).

Usually it is the opposite, I've seen so many people come unstuck when employers change phone or IT providers and they suddenly realise all their school alerts and social life has been organised on someone else's tech and get rather upset when the owner decides they want to swap it for another one that afternoon.

Paul

[didds]

Usually it is the opposite, I've seen so many people come unstuck when employers change phone or IT providers and they suddenly realise all their school alerts and social life has been organised on someone else's tech and get rather upset when the owner decides they want to swap it for another one that afternoon.

Paul

short of employers "overnight" giving everybody new mobile numbers (think SMS, whatsapp etc.) Im not really sure how that may affect people for school alerts etc - the base product may alter (android to iphone say) but the number won't. Employers changing mobile numbers for everyone leaves them open to all that customer base etc having to be updated with that change also. Its a huge headache to do so basically.

A change in email address/domain etc is potentially more likely - but they still have the issue with customers and clients with the "old" addresses to handle as a result then ... and I would also say one really needs to use a personal email address for personal stuff for all the obvious reasons. My employers have been through a couple of name changes and domain changes similarly in recent years, but in reality the old domains are having to remain live with forwarding rules to avoid this customer base update issue.

Recently a chum's employers decided all company mobile provision woold be locked down to only certain apps could be used on the phones which scuppered lots of people who now couldn't have facebook/twitter/whatever else on their phones and didn't want to carry two phones about. That's fair enough maybe to make that call... but in reality what it has meant is that lots of people have gone and bought a cheap smartphone (eg samsung galaxy 64Gb A13, circa £100 refurbished), slapped their company provided sim in it and carried on in their won sweet way... and now the company paid restricted mobile phone just sits in a drawer, unused, at the company's expense.

be careful what you wish for...

[Lanark]

As soon as you put an employers data onto a device it becomes a 'work device' and subject to possible search and seizure for any number of reasons.

I always advise people to keep work and personal data completely separate.

A good way to weed out crap employers at a job interview is to ask them what kind of IT equipment they will provide.

[Gerry557]

They can't force you to put anything on your phone but how much of an issue is it really. The odd message meeting in the conf room at 15:00 for everyone might not be an issue.

Them wanting you to be on all socal media saying positive things and lying all the time could be an issue.

Ask for help setting it up on your old Nokia if you don't want it

[GrahamPlatt]

As soon as you put an employers data onto a device it becomes a 'work device' and subject to possible search and seizure for any number of reasons.

I always advise people to keep work and personal data completely separate.

BoJo, Sturgeon & whoever else in HMG didn’t seem to have any problems hiding/denying their correspondence despite attempts at search/seizure. And that was just WhatsApp.

I’m with the boss here. Look, you generally have contact with work via your ‘phone even if it’s only voice and/or SMS. Irrespective of work, everyone should be using Signal - and contributing (£) to it.

[GrahamPlatt]

Tried editing - failed as timed out. So…

As to the boss getting you to be on tap 24/7, no way. You have control of your ‘phone. And I think there are even (but perhaps they’re just EU) rules against that sort of abuse.

[RockRabbit]

As soon as you put an employers data onto a device it becomes a 'work device' and subject to possible search and seizure for any number of reasons.

I always advise people to keep work and personal data completely separate.

BoJo, Sturgeon & whoever else in HMG didn’t seem to have any problems hiding/denying their correspondence despite attempts at search/seizure. And that was just WhatsApp.

I’m with the boss here. Look, you generally have contact with work via your ‘phone even if it’s only voice and/or SMS.

BoJo, Sturgeon etc have very expensive lawyers to protect them - do you? Furthermore they were only involved in a government enquiry, not for example a criminal case. Using your personal device for work is a really bad idea.

[Lootman]

I’m with the boss here. Look, you generally have contact with work via your ‘phone even if it’s only voice and/or SMS. Irrespective of work, everyone should be using Signal - and contributing (£) to it.

But can a job demand that you even have a phone, let alone a specific app?

It is a long time since I worked and in fact I never had a mobile phone back then, let alone a smart phone. I am not even sure that my work had my home phone number and I cannot recall work ever ringing me at home after hours.

At one point I carried a beeper and was supposed to ring back within a reasonable period of time. But that was it.

I was offered a work Blackberry at one point but declined it.

[Urbandreamer]

I think that we may be reading just a bit too much into a hear say account.

"I just heard from a former colleague that their boss is insisting on everyone downloading Signal and joining a group so they can remain in instant contact."

Insisting? Let us be honest, the entire thread revolves around that one word that may not even have been used by said boss.

FWIW, I was asked questions via Whatsapp today and went into "work" to help them out. I'm retired! As has been said these, back channels, exist. Just conceivably said boss may be trying to encourage people to use Signal, rather than Wechat, which was also used where I worked.

It's also possible that said "boss" was exceeding their authority. While employed I and others received an email instructing us to keep skype running at work, so that we could be contacted. WHAT IS WRONG WITH USING THE INTERNAL PHONE SYSTEM! This was in the days when skype caused your computer to take twice as long to compile software. Hence people who USED their computers for serious work, disabled it.

Ps, for those who don't know, Wechat is Chinese and was easier to get through the great fire wall of China.

[Lootman]

While employed I and others received an email instructing us to keep skype running at work, so that we could be contacted. WHAT IS WRONG WITH USING THE INTERNAL PHONE SYSTEM!

Or for that matter a company's internal email system.

Although I did not get a mobile phone until around the year 2000, I was using my employer's email system as far back as 1991. That and the internal phone system worked fine.

[Urbandreamer]

While employed I and others received an email instructing us to keep skype running at work, so that we could be contacted. WHAT IS WRONG WITH USING THE INTERNAL PHONE SYSTEM!

Or for that matter a company's internal email system.

Although I did not get a mobile phone until around the year 2000, I was using my employer's email system as far back as 1991. That and the internal phone system worked fine.

As you say Lootman.

To clarify, the example that I gave was of an idiot, upset that they had to use the phone system, despite the fact that they "managed" email and phone systems. It was about their convenience not a considered (or explained) business case. She exceeded her authority, but some of us took the attitude that complying hurt her position more than our own.

[kempiejon]

What was wrong with those envelopes with boxes to write in then cross out destinations and a memo sent by internal mail.
I had an iphone thrust upon me and when someone suggested we now add Whatsapp I resisted, the iPhone was already used to communicate using google hangouts, SMS, gmail and voice.

[dionaeamuscipula]

While employed I and others received an email instructing us to keep skype running at work, so that we could be contacted. WHAT IS WRONG WITH USING THE INTERNAL PHONE SYSTEM!

Or for that matter a company's internal email system.

Although I did not get a mobile phone until around the year 2000, I was using my employer's email system as far back as 1991. That and the internal phone system worked fine.

PWC for example no longer have phones on desks. Everyone communicates using a mobile.

Our desktop phones are barely used now, and won't be replaced like-for-like when BT turns off the analogue network. 90% of our internal communications is through Outlook and Teams. This is partly because even though we are all desk based, none of us spends more than 80% of their days actually in the office.

And I would say that >90% of our calls inwards are cold calls.

Just over half the office have work mobile phones. The rest don't want to carry two phones around so voluntarily use their personal mobiles for work purposes. Our cyber security guys are cool with that. We don't force anyone to have Teams on their personal mobiles, but they all have it, mainly because otherwise they would miss out on office gossip.

DM

[didds]

In 13 years, at work (IT services) we have gone from


desk phones
desk phones & mobile phones
mobile phones and teams calls
teams calls.

though we do still have company provided mobiles but TBH I'm not really sure what they are intended to be used for - aside form maybe when Armageddon arrives and all the IT infrastructure and the power to run it has collapsed. In which case the battery in the phones wont be rechargeable anyway.

Other than just a hidden and in effect cheap perk, I cynically suspect its a way to "ensure" all staff are available 24 x 7. Which doesn't work when one has a separate personal phone, and/or leaves the mobile in a desk drawer when not working.


On the other hand my wife works in an NHS community team and travels around rural areas - some VERY rural - and her provided mobile is a genuine contact/comms need.
Though its not unusual for her to end up in places with no signal!

[formoverfunction]

The merry days of "bring your own device" to work.

I'd at least be pleased that it's Signal over Whatsapp. It always irritates me when providers of utilities want you to contact them on Whatsapp.

I've always expected to be provided with a company devices, so carrying 2 devices was for my career the normal situation.

Ever wondered about "none competes" when your clients have always called you on your personal number and email, all that juicy confidential information that is on your laptop, the companies future plans are sitting on home computers?

Happy days, garden rest for 6 months and you've retained your number and email address, really "bring your own device" is a formal of commercial gambling.

As far as I understand it, there's no commercial model for Signal, it can be used on mobile and desktop devices in sync, so I can't believe a self destroying message strategy would stop the receiving party just screen shooting. All that Signal have done is build tools for commercial use. Not a product. They are still totally reliant on donations. So the end user has all the control.

[Lootman]

I cynically suspect its a way to "ensure" all staff are available 24 x 7. Which doesn't work when one has a separate personal phone, and/or leaves the mobile in a desk drawer when not working.

Surely that is the real motive here - to squeeze more work hours out of the poor hapless worker drones.

I think I was probably born at just the right time. Any later and no doubt I would have been sucked into this 24 hour availability regime. So between that and retiring early, I escaped that reign of terror. In fact I cannot imagine being asked in a job interview whether I had a smart phone any more than whether I had a TV or a fridge.

Bullet dodged.

[Niksen]

I just heard from a former colleague that their boss is insisting on everyone downloading Signal and joining a group so they can remain in instant contact.

Going back many years a work colleague of mine was given a pager (I said it was many years ago...) as it suddenly became somebody higher up's idea that my colleague required one they could be contacted when needed.

However the pager never left my colleague's desk drawer and when questioned about that their response was "well when I am here I can answer the desk phone, and when I am not here at my desk I am not being paid to be at work".

Perhaps the person asked to install Signal does so but learns how to use the 'focus' settings on their phone which will silence and mute notifications from apps you specify between certain hours, so the Signal app is set to only notify them of messages during their contracted working hours - and if their contracted working hours are 24/7 then perhaps a job search might be in order unless they are being incredibly overpaid for their current job.

[elkay]

The merry days of "bring your own device" to work.
It always irritates me when providers of utilities want you to contact them on Whatsapp.

I'm curious about why you are irritated by utilities wanting to contact you by WhatsApp. I'm happy if it is an option, as it is generaally the most responsive channel, is encrypted, and backed up, so I have the history....
A Signal option would be of no interest to me - no-one I know uses Signal, so there is no point in me having it on my phone.

elkay

[formoverfunction]

Most people I know use Signal. The issue is, why don't they offer an option?

Simply being forced to use a product deeply associated with a company who's revenue model is to leverage you is not acceptable.

If you don't want to use Facebook, why should you be made to use one of it's deeply embedded products?

As of last year, WhatsApp shared data with the larger Facebook Group, including meta data, purchase history, location,
and device id. It also shared that information with 3rd party advertisers and WhatsApp partners.

The question being how deep do you want your digital shadow to be, and do you need to increase it when you have a question over your water pressure?

Signal, doesn't do any of that.

Now that may have changed in the last 12 months, but my belief is that data sharing was correct as of February 2023.

WhatsApp was also at that time sharing your mobile number with Facebook, and I believe who was sending and receiving the message, but not the content.

This was from Mozilla, around that time:

"Another thing to know about WhatsApp security: when you use the app to text with businesses on, can you count on those conversations actually being less private."

Does Facebook really need to know I need I want to speak to my utility company? And then sell that data to advertisers and partners?

You will have your own view on how important your privacy is, but I put some on mine. As I don't use the "larger Facebook Group", why should they be making money off me, when I don't get any utility out of them?

Again, unless it's changed, WhatsApp is actually using most of the opensource Signal origins, so what you are giving up in comparison? It's certainly not security by just using Signal.

And you are correct, it's often the most effective way of reaching them, and that's the issue.