The Lemon Fool

I've done my own research. This doesn't have to be complicated.

I instructed local solicitor, STEP, Society of Trust and Estate Planners. Thought make it easy for myself and my sons, (to be appointed attorneys jointly/severally).

Surprised by draft wording in view of own research. There had been no discussion of this wording at all at the only meeting. I queried it by email. By phone I was told .... something like....."it saves difficulties later" .."it's standard". "it's what we are told to do..." (I failed to ask told by whom?). Instead, strong pressure to include...though I have not yet agreed. Equally no one, neither sons, nor other family members (some professionals) understand implications of this so called "standard wording"

SO just WHAT am I MISSING? ..... Is this REALLY standard wording? Just WHAT is the Purpose? .

PROPOSED DRAFTS for - FINANCIAL POWER OF ATTORNEY - SECTION 7 - PREFERENCES AND INSTRUCTIONS...

PREFERENCES

"I authorise my solicitor/financial adviser/bank to disclose to my attorney (s) a copy of my will and
any other testamentary document executed by me but not to release the original without an order of the court of protection"

INSTRUCTIONS

"My attorney(s) may transfer my investments into a discretionary management scheme, or, if I already had investments
in a discretionary management scheme before I lost capacity to make financial decisions, I want the scheme to continue.
I understand in both cases that managers of the scheme will make investment decisions and my investments will be held in their names or in the names of their nominees"

Note: Introduction to Section 7 Preferences and Instructions states"This Section is optional” …. and that … …. “most people leave this page blank….."

My GUT instinct is to "instruct" the expert STEP solicitor to exclude this draft wording on Section 7 as it is NOT required by Office of Public Guardian and in my view only complicates matters for the Attorneys (leading to them potentially needing to take advice... complicating with/for other third parties...)

What AM I missing? here... what is the purpose of these Drafts?

Many thanks any help...
Kind regards...

You don't need any of this rubbish, nor to involve a solicitor.

I just filled the forms out myself (PDFs downloaded from the internet), submitted them with a cheque and got the finished LPAs back.

It isn't difficult and I did both financial and health ones.

A Google search found this article which states (in part):

Property and affairs deputies and attorneys have a duty to ensure that they consider a client’s succession plans as far as possible when making financial decisions on behalf of an individual who has lost mental capacity.

By having knowledge of the content of the Will they can ensure that before making certain decisions about an individual’s finances they are not interfering with their succession plans and are therefore making decisions in the best interest of that individual.

In March 2017 the Law Society issued guidance to clarify when a solicitor holding a clients Will can disclose a copy to an attorney or property and affairs deputy. [....]

The guidance clarifies that a Will is a client’s property and forms part of an individual’s financial affairs. As such, if there are no instructions made by the donor/protected party (P) or the Court which prevent disclosure, a copy of a Will can be disclosed to an attorney or deputy.

(My bold added)

So the intention appears to be to clarify that the attorney can ask to see the will in order to make sure they aren't doing anything which would interfere with the donor's succession planning. They can't ask for the original will because if the donor has lost capacity, the will can't be altered, and an unscrupulous attorney could destroy the will.

Whether the clause is relevant in the OP's case depends on who the attorneys are, what's in the will etc etc.

An LPA made without a solicitor and just appointing a spouse as attorney (for example) would not need (and wouldn't have I think) this clause.

The online LPA service is excellent. You can even ring the changes moving people between roles for a range of LPAs.

scrumpyjack wrote:You don't need any of this rubbish, nor to involve a solicitor. I just filled the forms out myself (PDFs downloaded from the internet), submitted them with a cheque and got the finished LPAs back.

Yes indeed. And don't waste your money on intermediary services that advertise their services via nice Mr Google; just use the official GOV.UK Public Guardian website.
The Public Guardian site is well automated, and when you have completed an LPA you pay online, print off the completed forms, and hawk them round to friends for witnessing. In addition, one individual needs to be a 'certificate provider' who confirms that you know what you are doing.

I did both for my late wife, and have now done the same for myself naming my daughter as attorney and a long-time neighbour as certificate provider.
It is very straightforward. Just make sure everything is 100% correct (even down to spelling names and addresses) and that the clearly-described process is followed to the letter - or you waste £82 or whatever per LPA.

Rules for Life
a. make a Will
b. make 2 x LPAs
c. tell your family where they are safely stored.

Your family and successors will be very grateful.

stewamax wrote:

scrumpyjack wrote:You don't need any of this rubbish, nor to involve a solicitor. I just filled the forms out myself (PDFs downloaded from the internet), submitted them with a cheque and got the finished LPAs back.

Yes indeed. And don't waste your money on intermediary services that advertise their services via nice Mr Google; just use the official GOV.UK Public Guardian website.
The Public Guardian site is well automated, and when you have completed an LPA you pay online, print off the completed forms, and hawk them round to friends for witnessing. In addition, one individual needs to be a 'certificate provider' who confirms that you know what you are doing.

I did both for my late wife, and have now done the same for myself naming my daughter as attorney and a long-time neighbour as certificate provider.
It is very straightforward. Just make sure everything is 100% correct (even down to spelling names and addresses) and that the clearly-described process is followed to the letter - or you waste £82 or whatever per LPA.

Rules for Life
a. make a Will
b. make 2 x LPAs
c. tell your family where they are safely stored.

Your family and successors will be very grateful.

All of the above is OK as long as you are in England and Wales. There are different POA's for Scotland and Northern Ireland.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/power-of-attorney/
"In Scotland or Northern Ireland?

In Scotland, there are three Powers of Attorney: one for financial matters, called a continuing Power of Attorney; one for personal welfare, a welfare Power of Attorney; and a combined Power of Attorney that covers both continuing and welfare, which is the most common. For full details, see the Office of the Public Guardian (Scotland) and Alzheimer Scotland's Money and Legal Matters guides.

For Northern Ireland see NIdirect's Power of Attorney info."

There doesn't seem to be a nice friendly web version for Scotland

Adrian

eab2024 wrote:What AM I missing? here... what is the purpose of these Drafts?

The clause relating to the Will has already been explained.

The one about investment management is a very common modification, and came about because a lot of financial institutions refused to accept that attorneys could instruct them to deal on a discretionary basis, due to the official guidance issued by the OPG.

The OPG recognised the problem, and modified their advice in 2022 to the effect that this is no longer considered a necessary modification. However, there are still some companies that stick by the original guidance, so if there's any realistic possibility that this situation might arise it does no harm to include the clause.

This explains it in more detail - https://www.ftadviser.com/pensions/2022 ... ps/?page=3

Having said that, it should be your solicitors, to whom you are presumably paying a substantial fee for a few minutes' work creating an online LPA, advising you about this, not me!

Thank you for all the replies which are helpful at a difficult time.