Le Manoir aux Quat'Saisons

[Clitheroekid]

This is a very long shot, and I'm not sure if this is even the right board, but I've been offered dinner at the aforementioned establishment by some very generous clients. But they also said if i didn't fancy going there I could choose an alternative (though in the same area, as that's where they live).

Initially, I was delighted, though I knew little about it apart from its legendary status. But having visited the website I was completely staggered by the prices. I've eaten in some expensive restaurants in my time, but this is another dimension.

The food does look fantastic - http://www.belmond.com/le-manoir-aux-qu ... noir_menus - but without wishing to sound po-faced I'm struggling to justify the cost. Even though I'm not paying (and even though they can afford it!) I'm wondering whether it really is as good as it's made out to be or whether people are merely praising it because having mortgaged the house to eat there they have to convince themselves that it was worth it.

Although I'm quite happy to pay top price for top quality (especially with someone else's credit card ) I do not like being ripped off, and if I felt that there really was no justification at all for these prices it would spoil my enjoyment.

So does anyone have any actual experience of eating there? I would far rather have an honest opinion from someone I don't know than one from someone who is suffering from a severe attack of confirmation bias.

I'll probably manage to overcome my conscience without too great a struggle, but it would be good to have some justification for doing so!

[sg31]

The 5 course lunch is only eye wateringly expensive (to me) but steer clear of the fizz.

Ignore me, I once refused to eat on a train journey from Birmingham to Perth because they wanted £8 for fish chips and peas. ( My employers were picking up the tab but I just couldn't do it.) This was back in the early 80's and I'm a tight fisted Yorkshireman.

Go and enjoy yourself it could be a great experience.

[patrickmacqueen]

I ate there a long time ago - indeed I stayed the night, so had breakfast the next day as well.

The food was fantastic - far too much, of course, and I recall spending most of the night tossing and turning as my digestive system went into overdrive - but I think you owe it to yourself to take advantage of the opportunity. And by London standards the prices are not off the scale.

[Dod1010]

My dear friend

If you are serious, this is not a lot of money for what you may expect. I live within ten minutes of Gleneagles Hotel wherein is Andrew Fairlie's restaurant. For two it would cost at least £350 and that is without port or any extras. Do not fret, you can make it up in fees. In fact you may be undercharging.

Dod

[Clitheroekid]

And by London standards the prices are not off the scale.

That's where I would have to disagree. I eat in London regularly, and I would say that the MQS prices are very similar to or more than the top London restaurants.

A little (very enjoyable and mouth-watering!) research gives some examples (all from the a la carte menus):

Petrus - £75 for 3 courses

Alain Ducasse at The Dorchester - 3 courses £100 / 4 courses £120, 7 courses £140

Restaurant Gordon Ramsay - £110 for 3 courses

The Square - £105 for 4 courses

Unfortunately, I can't make a direct comparison with MQS, as for some strange reason the a la carte menu doesn't include any puddings, but the cheapest starter and main would be £97, and it's a reasonable bet that the pudding would be another £30 or so, making a total of around £130 for 3 courses - http://4c6c364fdf1082a37bcf-54493dc0d92 ... _carte.pdf.

By comparison the 5 course dinner at £138 looks like a bargain! - http://4c6c364fdf1082a37bcf-54493dc0d92 ... dinner.pdf

And finally, the 7 course dinner is £159, compared to Alain Ducasse at £140 - http://4c6c364fdf1082a37bcf-54493dc0d92 ... dinner.pdf

And then, of course, there's the matter of the wine ... but on that note it's time to turn in and look forward to some degustationary dreams

EDIT - I've just been told that I can't have more than 3 URL's in a post, so you'll just have to take my word for the non-linked figures!

[Hallucigenia]

This is a very long shot, and I'm not sure if this is even the right board, but I've been offered dinner at the aforementioned establishment by some very generous clients. But they also said if i didn't fancy going there I could choose an alternative (though in the same area, as that's where they live).

Make it down to Bray?

I've known a couple of people eat at Le Manoir and they've all said it was great - obviously on one level it's ridiculous to fill your belly at that cost, but at the top end small improvements always cost disproportionately more. Somewhere like that you're paying as much for the number of staff looking after you as the food, but the consensus seems to be that it really is some of the best food anywhere.

[AleisterCrowley]

It seems to be the accepted truth (so probably wrong) that restaurants make most of their money on the drink mark-ups
I recall doing an unscientific search some years back relating to a post on Beerpig's Snug.
IIRC, where I could find the exact same wine, the (middle/top end) restaurant price was typically 2.5-3 times the consumer single-bottle price. Restaurants will buy in bulk of course, so 3-4 times cost may be a good guess. I guess they'd argue the expertise of the sommelier (sp?) adds to the cost of the plonk

[Lootman]

It seems to be the accepted truth (so probably wrong) that restaurants make most of their money on the drink mark-ups

It's certainly true that the markup on drinks is a significant factor in the profit margins. Unlike food it doesn't really have to be prepared, just stored and poured correctly. In fact the markup on most raw items in a restaurant is typically about fourfold.

Starters and puddings are profitable too. If you really want to be cheap, just order a main course with no starter, pudding or drink - the restaurant will barely make any money out of you. Which I think explains the popularity of multi-course "deals" and tasting menus, and the vogue for tapas places.

And order a steak rather than something like pizza which costs next-to-nothing to make. The gross profit margin on a pizza can be 90% compared to the 60%-70% that is normal.

But of course the real genius is getting people to pay a fiver for a cup of coffee.

[AleisterCrowley]

Storage/wastage costs of wine must be pretty low compared with fresh produce - I doubt they chuck bottles of Pétrus which are past their 'best before' date
I more or less refuse to buy pizza - as you say the mark-up is phenomenal. I can remember nights out in the general vicinity of Farnborough, where we'd get a bit peckish post-pub and the only option was a pizza - even collected rather than delivered it was horribly expensive for what is mainly cheese and dough with 50p of crud on top, and no skill in the cooking. It was that or slices from the sweaty grey rotating elephant's leg in the local house of kebabs...

[Hallucigenia]

It depends on the place - kitchens have big fixed costs but good margins, in general drinks have somewhat lower margins but fewer fixed costs.

That means in a big place, the food makes the money (and they do alright from drink as well).

In a small place they may be breaking even on food but it is a way to sell drink. But it's probably a much nicer place to be.

On the really pricey stuff, they're more likely to work to a fixed cash margin rather than a %GP, so sometimes the pricey stuff can be incredibly good value relative to a shop.

[Clitheroekid]

Thanks for all the interesting comments. Having wrestled (admittedly not very hard) with my conscience I've decided to accept the offer.

However, it seems that one of the great attractions at MQS is the garden, where they grow a lot of the herbs and so on that they use in the cooking. I think I'd really enjoy it, but there's not much point going in the middle of winter, so we've decided to postpone until late spring.

I'll report back in due course, and in the meantime I'll have to be very careful not to upset my benefactors!

[deucetoace]

I have been once (brother and I took Mum for her 70th as she is a foody) The garden is well worth wandering around so if you go allow for the time to browse (say 30 minutes).

We had the tasting menu as it was what she wanted. Everything was excellent quality and enjoyable but not what I'd call interesting. The normal menu might well have been more interesting.

[toofast2live]

It's a fantastic place to go. As others have said the food, of course, is sublime. But there is the added attraction of the gardens. We have been lucky enough to go to both a wedding reception there and a few lunches. We've not had dinner there, though (with the exception of the wedding.)

I thought the Waterside was better food and Le Gavroche (tasting menu with suggested wines) better value.

In two weeks time we are doing FERA at Claridges and Ducasse at the Dorchester. I will report back.

[simoan]

Storage/wastage costs of wine must be pretty low compared with fresh produce - I doubt they chuck bottles of Pétrus which are past their 'best before' date

Funnily enough, I ate at Petrus several years ago and they were very proud to show us a corked bottle of Chateau Petrus that was worth about two grand! Not sure Gordon Ramsay would've seen the funny side but the Sommelier did

All the best, Si

[DiamondEcho]

This is a very long shot, and I'm not sure if this is even the right board, but I've been offered dinner at the aforementioned establishment by some very generous clients. But they also said if i didn't fancy going there I could choose an alternative (though in the same area, as that's where they live).
Initially, I was delighted, though I knew little about it apart from its legendary status. But having visited the website I was completely staggered by the prices. I've eaten in some expensive restaurants in my time, but this is another dimension....

Since you're from 'oop narth' [as am I] they perhaps gave the opt-out if you're terrified venturing beyond black-pudding and fish and chips [ ].
But I'm not sure your refusing a generous gesture on their part would sit too well. They've made the offer, they know what it costs, and it's not a concern for them.... So why is it for you unless you feel you might then be 'unprofessionally beholden' to them in future dealings?

Perhaps a risk is causing offence, your suggesting 'I can't eat food that expensive' risking suggesting the hosts have lesser scruples? If you want to review the menu and see how various diners respond have a look at -> https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_ ... gland.html

[I've never been, but have friends who have who had a blast of a 'landmark celebration' there. It's not the kind of headline/'showy' place I'd choose to dine if I were making the plans, but if invited on another's tab would be there like a shot! ]

[Clitheroekid]

But I'm not sure your refusing a generous gesture on their part would sit too well. They've made the offer, they know what it costs, and it's not a concern for them.... So why is it for you unless you feel you might then be 'unprofessionally beholden' to them in future dealings?

Perhaps a risk is causing offence, your suggesting 'I can't eat food that expensive' risking suggesting the hosts have lesser scruples?

I'd never intended to refuse a free meal - it was just a matter of whether we went there or somewhere else. Neither was I going to lose any sleep over my benefactors wanting to spend loadsamoney on me - after all, I'm worth it!

My main concern was whether the experience was actually worth what it was going to cost, or whether it was just an over-hyped example of the emperor's new clothes.

However, as I said a couple of posts back I've been persuaded that it is largely as good as it's cracked up to be, so I've now accepted the offer and I'm greatly looking forward to it.

[Skotch]

But I'm not sure your refusing a generous gesture on their part would sit too well. They've made the offer, they know what it costs, and it's not a concern for them.... So why is it for you unless you feel you might then be 'unprofessionally beholden' to them in future dealings?

Perhaps a risk is causing offence, your suggesting 'I can't eat food that expensive' risking suggesting the hosts have lesser scruples?

I'd never intended to refuse a free meal - it was just a matter of whether we went there or somewhere else. Neither was I going to lose any sleep over my benefactors wanting to spend loadsamoney on me - after all, I'm worth it!

My main concern was whether the experience was actually worth what it was going to cost, or whether it was just an over-hyped example of the emperor's new clothes.

However, as I said a couple of posts back I've been persuaded that it is largely as good as it's cracked up to be, so I've now accepted the offer and I'm greatly looking forward to it.

I would definitely go for nothing else but the experience of it all. I was taken for a significant birthday (lunch sitting) - there were security guards parading outside the gates - apparently a well known Russian Oligarch was in for a spot of lunch - apart from that the whole 'experience' was sublime. The gardens are fantastic (don't know how they will look this time of the year though).

I was lucky in that I wasn't paying - I saw some of the drinks prices and they are on the expensive side (£20 for a small pot of 'white tea' was a bit much I thought!).

Enjoy it for what it is!

S

[Infrasonic]

Lunches generally present the better value option than evening ALC at the top end.

Wine markups vary enormously according to the philosophy of the owners. Some places will have a diminishing % or flat cash markup for the high end stuff as the gross £ difference will be so huge. Better to sell a few bottles a year than one or two.

http://www.decanter.com/wine-news/opini ... teep-3545/

[Clitheroekid]

Wine markups vary enormously according to the philosophy of the owners. Some places will have a diminishing % or flat cash markup for the high end stuff as the gross £ difference will be so huge. Better to sell a few bottles a year than one or two.

That reminds me of a place we went to on the way back from a day at Cartmel Races. It was what might nowadays be described as a gastropub, good quality food, but neither pretentious nor expensive.

Most of the wine was priced in the £20 - £40 mark, but I noticed one bottle all on its own at around £400.

I couldn't understand the rationale for this, so asked the waiter if they ever sold any.

"Oh yes" he said, "We sell a few bottles each year. We regularly get a group coming back from the races with one bloke who's had a good day and is showing off. He'll not bother looking at the wine list, and will just snap his fingers and say in a loud voice "Bring me the best wine in the house". His face when he gets the bill makes my day!"

[Infrasonic]

^^ Gotta love the nouveau riche...