Fresh Fruit and Vegetables

[terminal7]

Is it my (and more importantly the OH's) imagination that fresh F&V is becoming more tasteless. I know a huge generalisation but we tend to buy at a local independent and occasionally from Waitrose and very occasionally from a bio place. We have particularly noticed that many types of fruit have diminished taste but look cosmetically better. Hypotheses: (i) EU produce held up at ports hence less fresh at retail point (ii) UK producers running out of workers and much less available fresh (iii) climate change (iv) old age taste buds.

Any ideas - just want a nice crunchy apple or firmish sweet plum

T7

ps Spending a fair amount of time in France - I am not experiencing such a decline there.

[Dod101]

Is it my (and more importantly the OH's) imagination that fresh F&V is becoming more tasteless. I know a huge generalisation but we tend to buy at a local independent and occasionally from Waitrose and very occasionally from a bio place. We have particularly noticed that many types of fruit have diminished taste but look cosmetically better. Hypotheses: (i) EU produce held up at ports hence less fresh at retail point (ii) UK producers running out of workers and much less available fresh (iii) climate change (iv) old age taste buds.

Any ideas - just want a nice crunchy apple or firmish sweet plum

T7

ps Spending a fair amount of time in France - I am not experiencing such a decline there.

There is an article in the Sunday Times this morning on that very topic. Apparently our soft fruit, strawberries and raspberries amongst others have increased in size over the last few years because supermarkets say that consumers want that, but this has resulted in less tasty fruit. I buy mine at a big fruit farm not far from me and have noticed the same thing. They guy tells me that unfortunately they cannot afford to ignore what the supermarkets want (if I go there in the morning they are loading trucks with pallets of fruit at this time of year) but he agrees with me.

No doubt it is the same with other fruit and vegetables.

Dod

[bluedonkey]

Another possible factor is that taste like the other senses tends to decline with age.

[UncleEbenezer]

I see both ups and downs. Some fruit & veg becomes tasteless, others improve as consumers demand better. And of course things vary from season to season: think strawberries and their notoriously good and bad years.

One could point to things that are firmly down: how long is it since any but the very few best pears didn't go straight from rock-hard to mushy&horrible? And a majority of peaches and plums now seem to appear rock-hard on the shelves. On the other hand, it seems easier to get tomatoes with some taste than in the worst years when they became a sick joke.

Or in the longer term ... does anyone still flog those utterly tasteless "golden delicious" that were the default apple in my youth?

[terminal7]

I see both ups and downs. Some fruit & veg becomes tasteless, others improve as consumers demand better. And of course things vary from season to season: think strawberries and their notoriously good and bad years.

One could point to things that are firmly down: how long is it since any but the very few best pears didn't go straight from rock-hard to mushy&horrible? And a majority of peaches and plums now seem to appear rock-hard on the shelves. On the other hand, it seems easier to get tomatoes with some taste than in the worst years when they became a sick joke.

Or in the longer term ... does anyone still flog those utterly tasteless "golden delicious" that were the default apple in my youth?

Supplications Uncle E and I am aware that I may end up with a Lee Anderson response - nevertheless I can tell you the GD that my OH buys in Paris taste delicious and always have.

T&

[stevensfo]

Is it my (and more importantly the OH's) imagination that fresh F&V is becoming more tasteless. I know a huge generalisation but we tend to buy at a local independent and occasionally from Waitrose and very occasionally from a bio place. We have particularly noticed that many types of fruit have diminished taste but look cosmetically better. Hypotheses: (i) EU produce held up at ports hence less fresh at retail point (ii) UK producers running out of workers and much less available fresh (iii) climate change (iv) old age taste buds.

Any ideas - just want a nice crunchy apple or firmish sweet plum

T7

ps Spending a fair amount of time in France - I am not experiencing such a decline there.

Yep, no decline in Italy either.

I once felt embarrassed when in my mum's local Tesco and asked someone why their fruit looked so artificial, almost glow in the dark. I'm pretty sure that the fruit and maybe veg get sprayed with some kind of strong preservative chemical.

In Italy, the produce goes off much faster and you have to pay attention when choosing, so I assume that the same chemicals are not used.

Re. taste, there's also the question of how much fertiliser etc is used to grow the plants. Anybody who grows their own herbs, tomatoes etc will know exactly what I mean.

Steve

[bungeejumper]

I once felt embarrassed when in my mum's local Tesco and asked someone why their fruit looked so artificial, almost glow in the dark. I'm pretty sure that the fruit and maybe veg get sprayed with some kind of strong preservative chemical.

You might be nearer the mark than you think. Fruit and veg can be legally irradiated, and in fact I've heard it's normal for soft fruits that have to travel long distances. We once had an overlooked pack of very old Israeli strawberries that literally refused to go soft or mouldy!

Re. taste, there's also the question of how much fertiliser etc is used to grow the plants. Anybody who grows their own herbs, tomatoes etc will know exactly what I mean.

Too right. Our tomatoes, climbing french beans, courgettes and sweetcorn have a much more pronounced flavour than shop-bought because we pick them straight off the plant and use them (or blanch and freeze them) the same day. Apples and pears are also better for having zero food miles, except that the squirrels usually get to the pears before we do.

BJ

[swill453]

I once felt embarrassed when in my mum's local Tesco and asked someone why their fruit looked so artificial, almost glow in the dark. I'm pretty sure that the fruit and maybe veg get sprayed with some kind of strong preservative chemical.

You might be nearer the mark than you think. Fruit and veg can be legally irradiated, and in fact I've heard it's normal for soft fruits that have to travel long distances. We once had an overlooked pack of very old Israeli strawberries that literally refused to go soft or mouldy!

It's very uncommon to find irradiated food in the UK. It must be labelled as such, and I've never seen such a label in any shop.

Scott.

[bungeejumper]

It's very uncommon to find irradiated food in the UK. It must be labelled as such, and I've never seen such a label in any shop.

Interesting, thanks. http://www.foodcomm.org.uk/campaigns/europe_and_the_uk/

According to Cathie Deeley, spokeswoman for Puridec, food companies have been told by the leading [UK] supermarket chains that if they continue to irradiate any of their products, even if only for export, they can no longer be relied upon to supply UK retail outlets because of the risk of accidental supply of irradiated products.

Older and wiser!

BJ

[mc2fool]

Re. taste, there's also the question of how much fertiliser etc is used to grow the plants. Anybody who grows their own herbs, tomatoes etc will know exactly what I mean.

I think varieties must have a lot to do with it too, as well as time between picking and eating. A common complaint amongst Italians living in the UK is that they can't get even their home made sugo, marinara, arrabbiata, etc to taste like it does in Italy 'cos the tomatoes available here are comparatively tasteless.

I recall a cookery programme some years ago where the host, IIRC it was Keith Floyd, eating his way around Spain visited a tomato farm and on eating one off the vine declared to the farmer that it had soooo much more flavour than tomatoes he got in the UK, at which the farmer pointed to the next field and said the ones he exported to the UK were over there....

[nimnarb]

Here in Florida the fruit and a lot of the vegs is absolutely tasteless and damn expensive. Taste processed. Was ok about 28 years ago. Famous for fresh Orange Juice. No longer. Admittedly, the orange crops have been devastated over the last few years, be it bugs, weather, hurricanes, etc, but it's becoming more and more difficult to find "fresh" and organic(here) is simply a con for you to spend more, as it taste even more processed. The funny thing is that when I come to the UK, I manage to find some decent fruit, but yes, in France, love the fruit and vegs. Have to go to Georgia to get decent peaches. Sad.

Oh, bananas are decent here and cheap, yet watermelon and grapes, taste like shite and totally overpriced. As for Pineapple, don't get me started. Rant over.

[bungeejumper]

A common complaint amongst Italians living in the UK is that they can't get even their home made sugo, marinara, arrabbiata, etc to taste like it does in Italy 'cos the tomatoes available here are comparatively tasteless.

I won't claim to be as good as the Italian growers, because we don't have the right sun levels here in the UK, dammit. But I've been growing Costoluto Fiorentino outdoors for the last five years, and they're pretty damn authentic - big, ugly beef tomatoes, very sweet but also just tart enough to have the right Italian character. Heaven with a cheese sandwich! Monty Don on Gardeners World is growing them again this year. Recommended.

I recall a cookery programme some years ago where the host, IIRC it was Keith Floyd, eating his way around Spain visited a tomato farm and on eating one off the vine declared to the farmer that it had soooo much more flavour than tomatoes he got in the UK, at which the farmer pointed to the next field and said the ones he exported to the UK were over there....

In France, I once met a Dutchman who owned an enormous glasshouse (umpteen hectares) where he grew nothing but tomatoes. I said it must be great, always being able to pick your tomatoes at their absolute best.

"Oh good god, I don't eat mine!" he said. "They're for the supermarkets, they don't taste of anything. I come to France for proper tomatoes."
BJ

[UncleEbenezer]

Re. taste, there's also the question of how much fertiliser etc is used to grow the plants. Anybody who grows their own herbs, tomatoes etc will know exactly what I mean.

I think varieties must have a lot to do with it too, as well as time between picking and eating. A common complaint amongst Italians living in the UK is that they can't get even their home made sugo, marinara, arrabbiata, etc to taste like it does in Italy 'cos the tomatoes available here are comparatively tasteless.

Many tomatoes here are indeed tasteless. Especially out-of-season. But my recollection of Italy is that they too were far from perfect!

The trick is to buy the right ones. The San Marzano tomatoes I bought in Lidl this morning and had a couple of in my (salad) lunch are very definitely not tasteless.

[Dicky99]

Re. taste, there's also the question of how much fertiliser etc is used to grow the plants. Anybody who grows their own herbs, tomatoes etc will know exactly what I mean.

I think varieties must have a lot to do with it too, as well as time between picking and eating. A common complaint amongst Italians living in the UK is that they can't get even their home made sugo, marinara, arrabbiata, etc to taste like it does in Italy 'cos the tomatoes available here are comparatively tasteless.

I recall a cookery programme some years ago where the host, IIRC it was Keith Floyd, eating his way around Spain visited a tomato farm and on eating one off the vine declared to the farmer that it had soooo much more flavour than tomatoes he got in the UK, at which the farmer pointed to the next field and said the ones he exported to the UK were over there....

Fair enough, one field picked fully ripened for the local market, one picked earlier than ripe for exporting to distant markets.

Getting tasty toms from a UK supermarket has always been a challenge because to be bursting with tomatoey flavour they have to be sun ripened till fully ripe, nay a smidge beyond fully ripe.

[gryffron]

Pretty sure the uk supermarkets demand fruit & veg with maximum shelf life. And that severely impacts flavour. Yes, USA is worse. As others have already said, different varieties are grown for different markets.

Best tomatoes I ever had was on holiday in Jordan. Bought off the market in the morning. They were lovely. But you had to eat them for lunch cos they’d gone off by tea time. Not much use for export.

Gryff

[johnstevens77]

No one mentioned mangoes. Nothing beats an Alphonso mango as sold in the Gulf states and Saudi, once you have had your fill of those, nothing will ever persuade you to buy mango rocks as sold in UK supermarkets. And then there are those superb yellow fleshed Turkish peaches sold all over the Middle East in season, running with juice and so so tasty. But our all time favourites are local strawberries and tomatoes as sold in season in North Cyprus. We often vist an old friend in Kyrenia during spring time. Eastwards along the coast road out of Kyrenia (Girnie), there is an open vegetable market, the dark red unsorted strawberries are delivered all day long, just tipped out of the box onto the shelf, big, small, misshapen and absolutly wonderfull but you have to eat them at room temperature the same day. Oh! Of course, those yellow Turkish peaches are also available in season.

john

[UncleEbenezer]

No one mentioned mangoes. Nothing beats an Alphonso mango as sold in the Gulf states and Saudi, once you have had your fill of those.
john

You got me there. "Nothing beats" may be fair comment, but similar wording like "nothing compares with" would've drawn me to rubbish you.

My experience of a mango that nothing beats was in Cairns, Australia. Having experienced that, I'd fully support your comments about mangos in Blighty. Clearly a fruit that doesn't travel well!

OK, time to go and make my after-dinner espresso. Think I'll have a plum or two with it for my dessert. Plums that are quite nice, but not the greatest.

[johnstevens77]

No one mentioned mangoes. Nothing beats an Alphonso mango as sold in the Gulf states and Saudi, once you have had your fill of those.
john

My experience of a mango that nothing beats was in Cairns, Australia. Having experienced that, I'd fully support your comments about mangos in Blighty. Clearly a fruit that doesn't travel well!

Fair comment, we have also eaten mangos in Cairns and those from Lamu, as sold in Mombassa, were also excellent. I still say that Alphonso mangos are unbeatable.

john

[Dicky99]

It's all very well how poorly our imported mangoes compare to Australia ones and how tasteless our tomatoes are compared to Jordanian ones but I'll bet they can only look on with envy at our sprouts, swedes and cabbages

[ReformedCharacter]

Avocados available in the UK are disappointingly poor. The ones I used to buy in Kenya were the size of cannonballs and fantastic.

RC