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How can I seal a secret?

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Rob625
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How can I seal a secret?

#16820

Postby Rob625 » December 20th, 2016, 11:53 am

I don't exactly lose sleep over this, but it's one of those things I have been meaning to sort out for a long time. One day I'm going to die, and quite possibly I will become more or less incapable long before that. My grandfather was knocked down by a bus when I was about 7, and went from near genius to gaga overnight, which may explain why I think more about this than perhaps most people do.

My affairs are in reasonably good order, and I made a very simple will which won't be hard to find. But I would also like to make it easy for those who survive me, or who have to deal with my sudden unexpected incapacity, to get access to my digital world. In short, I would like them to be able to find my passwords in those circumstances. So I am thinking of writing a note of the important ones and sealing it in an envelope which I would then store in a safe place, letting my wife and adult sons know where it is. (I suppose I should also think about a second copy in case the house burns down; that's another question).

This solves the first problem and creates another: the risk that someone opens the envelope and gets access when I don't want them to. I'm not too worried about that happening, but I would like to know if it did. What I might do is to use sealing wax, so that if anyone does open the envelope I know about it pretty soon.

The thing is, sealing wax isn't very convenient to use and I don't think it's all that secure. Does anyone have a better idea?

melonfool
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Re: How can I seal a secret?

#16822

Postby melonfool » December 20th, 2016, 11:58 am

Rob625 wrote:I don't exactly lose sleep over this, but it's one of those things I have been meaning to sort out for a long time. One day I'm going to die, and quite possibly I will become more or less incapable long before that. My grandfather was knocked down by a bus when I was about 7, and went from near genius to gaga overnight, which may explain why I think more about this than perhaps most people do.

My affairs are in reasonably good order, and I made a very simple will which won't be hard to find. But I would also like to make it easy for those who survive me, or who have to deal with my sudden unexpected incapacity, to get access to my digital world. In short, I would like them to be able to find my passwords in those circumstances. So I am thinking of writing a note of the important ones and sealing it in an envelope which I would then store in a safe place, letting my wife and adult sons know where it is. (I suppose I should also think about a second copy in case the house burns down; that's another question).

This solves the first problem and creates another: the risk that someone opens the envelope and gets access when I don't want them to. I'm not too worried about that happening, but I would like to know if it did. What I might do is to use sealing wax, so that if anyone does open the envelope I know about it pretty soon.

The thing is, sealing wax isn't very convenient to use and I don't think it's all that secure. Does anyone have a better idea?


There are zillions of security packaging solutions/tamper evident bags, pouches, envelopes etc available, they are used in business all the time. You might even find a fire retardant one:

http://www.universeal.co.uk/security-en ... uches-bags

Mel

swill453
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Re: How can I seal a secret?

#16824

Postby swill453 » December 20th, 2016, 12:01 pm

For the first part of your task, if you keep all of your passwords in a tool like KeePass, you can easily print out a report with passwords, descriptions, URLs etc.

Scott.

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Re: How can I seal a secret?

#16867

Postby Lootman » December 20th, 2016, 2:09 pm

You could certainly use some kind of password manager, as others are suggesting. But I still think there is a legitimate need to come up with a method of hiding a letter somehow that enables those who survive you to manage your affairs, but not others. Such a letter might also contain information useful for your executors when conducting probate, such as a history of gifts made, or of course a treasure map showing where the gold is buried in your garden!

I prefer a multi-step process. So the letter might be in a safe, but the combination for the safe is written in code in such a way as your wife/children can figure it out but others cannot. The clues to this code could be similar to the security questions that online accounts use, based on things only your immediate family would know.

Meatyfool
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Re: How can I seal a secret?

#16873

Postby Meatyfool » December 20th, 2016, 2:24 pm

Unless I'm missing something, the obvious answer would be to leave the sealed envelope with a solicitor, or in a bank deposit. Access is only possible once deceased?

Meatyfool..

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Re: How can I seal a secret?

#16891

Postby jfgw » December 20th, 2016, 3:03 pm

One thing to consider is that it is recommended that passwords are changed from time to time. You should, ideally, choose a method that makes this simple. Also, you may want to change all of your passwords if ever your computer is compromised.

Rather than keep complete details in one place (which could be very useful to a thief), you could keep things split between two places (or keep the means of access in two places). A list of usernames and passwords is just as useful whether it is stolen from your home or the home of a relative.

A combination safe with a sufficiently long combination would allow you to give two different sets of relatives half of your combination each, for example, or you could give each a number and these would have to be added together to get the combination. Dual key safes are available although it would probably be cheaper to have two one-key safes with passwords etc. split between them, for example, if you set one of your passwords to "horse17aluminium42", you could store "horse17" in one safe and "aluminium42" in the other.

Julian F. G. W.

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Re: How can I seal a secret?

#16987

Postby LadyGagarin » December 20th, 2016, 6:40 pm

Yes, if you are looking for simple money wallets & tamper seals, Versapak is one such company that sells them - we use these where I work and you can order boxes full, each seal comes with a different number so you will know if they have been opened.

Disclaimer: I am not employed by, nor do I have any financial interest in, Versapak. Other products are of course available.

UncleEbenezer
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Re: How can I seal a secret?

#17021

Postby UncleEbenezer » December 20th, 2016, 9:05 pm

jfgw wrote:One thing to consider is that it is recommended that passwords are changed from time to time. You should, ideally, choose a method that makes this simple. Also, you may want to change all of your passwords if ever your computer is compromised.

There are arguments for and against that. I never change passwords unless forced to, or unless I've done something silly (like fat-fingers cut&paste into an app that might be in communication with the outside world, or my browser throws a wobbly while logged in).

Rather than keep complete details in one place (which could be very useful to a thief), you could keep things split between two places (or keep the means of access in two places). A list of usernames and passwords is just as useful whether it is stolen from your home or the home of a relative.

Just keep them encrypted. I have all my passwords on more than one machine, and a spare copy in the cloud. That would be an option for the OP (encrypt for self and for all family members concerned), with the proviso that it relies on the family members competence.
A combination safe with a sufficiently long combination would allow you to give two different sets of relatives half of your combination each, for example, or you could give each a number and these would have to be added together to get the combination. Dual key safes are available although it would probably be cheaper to have two one-key safes with passwords etc. split between them, for example, if you set one of your passwords to "horse17aluminium42", you could store "horse17" in one safe and "aluminium42" in the other.

Now that would certainly be easier and safer to do digitally.

jfgw
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Re: How can I seal a secret?

#17185

Postby jfgw » December 21st, 2016, 11:51 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:Just keep them encrypted. I have all my passwords on more than one machine, and a spare copy in the cloud. That would be an option for the OP (encrypt for self and for all family members concerned), with the proviso that it relies on the family members competence.


Do you have passwords set to access your computers? Would anyone-else be able to access the password file? Would the relative(s) have access to your computers anyway? Or to your files on the cloud after you stop paying for the service? How soon after your, possibly, untimely death would anyone start to deal with your online accounts? Where would your files be then? Is there any risk of anyone destroying the data for security reasons?

That is not to say that these are not insurmountable problems as long as they are considered. One option would be to save the encrypted file to a removable medium and store that somewhere safe. Save the decryption software too in case it becomes unavailable. Keep things up to date. Imagine what you would do if you found an envelope left by a deceased relative containing a 5" floppy labelled "Encrypted passwords and decryption software (runs on Windows 95)".

For security, you could encrypt it twice and put the keys in two separate envelopes to give to two different groups of relatives. You could then safely also give them instructions on where to find the file.

I still like the idea of paper copies myself. Good quality paper can last centuries and the format is pretty-much future-proof.

Julian F. G. W.

Rob625
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Re: How can I seal a secret?

#17323

Postby Rob625 » December 21st, 2016, 8:36 pm

Thanks for the replies.

The ones about tamper-evident envelopes have given me exactly what I wanted but didn't quite know how to define. It turns out that I can even get them from amazon.it, so the solution is at hand.

There is a lot I could say in response to other contributions, but today has been a long busy day, so I'll pass for now.

Thanks again.

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Re: How can I seal a secret?

#18243

Postby Grumpi » December 27th, 2016, 3:48 pm

Since retirement I am usually home and a few of my neighbours have asked if I would hold spare keys for them.
I ask them to seal the keys in an envelope, sign across the sealed flap and sellotape over their signature before I accept them.
When they lock themselves out and call for their keys they can see they haven't been misused.


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