Genetically modified food?

[kiloran]

Had a stressful morning shopping today, tried to beat the worst of the christmas rush. Was in M&S food store and they had tomatoes. Lots of different varieties.... Cherry, Rosa, Santini, Claret, vine-ripened, you name it, and.... ROUND tomatoes! That was what the label said.... Round Tomatoes.

Whatever will they think of next? Isn't science wonderful?

--kiloran

[panamagold]

Don't tell me...they were also grown for taste.

[NomoneyNohoney]

Don't tell me...they were also grown for taste.

[UncleEbenezer]

Don't tell me...they were also grown for taste.

Sadly I think tomatoes with taste are firmly out of season. If I'm wrong, someone please tell me where I can get them.

Oh, and regarding the subject line, there can't be much in our food shops - including expensive ones with attitude - that isn't genetically modified over many generations for higher yields.

[Grumpi]

I don't know about M&S but the sad thing about Sainsburys tomatoes is that it is very difficult to find any British tomatoes among their selections regardless of their shape GM or not.
Checking the Country of Origin on the packets show a few warm climes e.g. Spain or Canaries but mostly they are sourced from Holland.
How am I supposed to help the UK Trade Balance?

[Slarti]

I don't know about M&S but the sad thing about Sainsburys tomatoes is that it is very difficult to find any British tomatoes among their selections regardless of their shape GM or not.
Checking the Country of Origin on the packets show a few warm climes e.g. Spain or Canaries but mostly they are sourced from Holland.
How am I supposed to help the UK Trade Balance?

Most of the ones in Tesco are from Kent where there is a massive glass house. Run by a Dutchman!

Slarti

[bungeejumper]

Oh, and regarding the subject line, there can't be much in our food shops - including expensive ones with attitude - that isn't genetically modified over many generations for higher yields.

Oh dear, not this one again. And Uncle E, you of all people? Repeat after me. Cross-breeding and selective breeding is when you introduce the sperm and egg (or anther and stigma, or whatever) of two types or two species, so as to consciously create something that might conceivably have happened naturally anyway. Most well-known and extreme example is possibly the mule.

Genetic modification is when you physically rip bits of the genomes out of one species and insert them into another organism altogether. Such as inserting DNA segments from a fish into a tomato or a maize plant, so as to give it antifreeze properties.

The mule is blessed by nature with infertility, so that it can't multiply its hideous franken-self and eventually overpower its environment and outstrip its potential predators. Not so the tomato, which will probably be able to reproduce, and which may well have no natural predators because it's skipped a hundred million years of evolution. Thus making it a potentially unstoppable invasive scourge upon the world. (GM frogs, anyone? Nutritious giant locusts? How long can it be?)

Unless, of course, the company that makes it has also proactively switched off its reproductive ability so as to be able to charge the world as much as it likes for repeat sales of its seed. Don't get me wrong, there are some good and well-intentioned things being done with GM foods, but without effective control ad extreme testing the risks are simply terrifying.

BJ

[panamagold]

...... and outstrip its potential predators. Not so the tomato, which will probably be able to reproduce, and which may well have no natural predators because it's skipped a hundred million years of evolution.
BJ

Ha. Try telling that to the next one you stuff in your mouth.

[bungeejumper]

Ha. Try telling that to the next one you stuff in your mouth.

Like it. Where's a rec button when you need one?

BJ

[UncleEbenezer]

Most well-known and extreme example is possibly the mule.

Nonsense. Just look at pedigree dogs. Especially the monstrosities bred to be crippled, like those with squashed up faces, or impossibly long backs and short legs.

Or on the farm, the dumb, docile cows with unnaturally rapid growth and permanent diarrhoea.

Or perhaps the most extreme example, humans with genetic conditions that should be fatal, not merely kept alive by modern medicine, but helped to procreate and propagate those defects!

Not so the tomato, which will probably be able to reproduce, and which may well have no natural predators because it's skipped a hundred million years of evolution. Thus making it a potentially unstoppable invasive scourge upon the world. (GM frogs, anyone? Nutritious giant locusts? How long can it be?)

Oh dear. You appear to be in the grip of ideas akin to those of the heroine of Northanger Abbey (currently being serialised on the wireless).

[bungeejumper]

Or perhaps the most extreme example, humans with genetic conditions that should be fatal, not merely kept alive by modern medicine, but helped to procreate and propagate those defects!

I must be missing something. Perhaps you could explain what that's got to do with genetic modification? As it is, unfortunately, your argument seems to be veering perilously toward eugenics, which doesn't get a very good press these days.

BJ

[redsturgeon]

I guess it was the choice of title for this topic, clearly tongue in cheek that has led it far away from the original post and into more serious and contentious areas. Might I respectfully suggest the the Science board is probably the best place to continue any science based discussions on GM, the Polite Discussions for debates on eugenics. Any slightly whimsical musings on fruit and vegetables please feel free to continue here.

John

[UncleEbenezer]

I must be missing something. Perhaps you could explain what that's got to do with genetic modification? As it is, unfortunately, your argument seems to be veering perilously toward eugenics, which doesn't get a very good press these days.

BJ

Bah. That was an afterthought to my previous post: I got distracted while writing it. Please ignore.

Though on the subject of eugenics, I happen to believe the taboo we have on it is overdone to the point of being harmful. If someone has serious genetic defects, propagating them looks akin to the chap who got convicted a few days ago for deliberately propagating HIV (by which I expect they mean he was sleeping around while hiding his HIV status). The idea that my tax money goes to fund NHS treatment to do exactly that is abhorrent.