The Lemon Fool

pje16 wrote:I didn't know that 2g was still around

It absolutely is! I use it for my decidedly non-smart mobile phone.

AFAIK in the UK at least, 2G is the basis of so many services (alarms, PoS Terminals etc.) it may be difficult to turn off - unless the situation has changed more recently and I am wrong.

pje16 wrote:BMW are dropping the traffic program for any of their cars that still have 3g Sims

I thought it was 3G that was on the way out - ironically the '3' mobile network no longer uses it in the UK. I assumed meters would be going to 4G, 5G.

bungeejumper wrote:

pje16 wrote:I didn't know that 2g was still around

It's all we've got in our area. (Five miles from one of Britain's biggest tourist towns.) 2G is okay for voice communication, when we can get a reception, but we've never been upgraded to 3G, so mobile internet isn't possible. Never mind, we can get the web as well if we walk a mile or so. 4G? Excuse me while I laugh.

BMW are dropping the traffic program for any of their cars that still have 3g Sims

That seems a trifle tough on faithful beemer customers who bought their cars a decade ago.
BJ

it's worse than a decade, apparently some 2017 models are affected, which is ridiculous

XFool wrote:I thought it was 3G that was on the way out - ironically the '3' mobile network no longer uses it in the UK.

Or should that be '3' doesn't use 2G? Would make more sense...

(This came up with a friend's mobile a year or so ago but I seem to have forgotten the details now - I think it is the latter)

AF62 wrote:Apparently the smart meter mesh networks don’t need a mobile signal - https://cyanconnode.com/telefonica-conn ... s-service/

It might be as well to check the date on that link. It was from August 2013. Now, I could easily be wrong, but after nine and a half years I'd have expected the hoo-hah to have died down by now if the Telefonica mesh system had worked as well as advertised.

BJ

bruncher wrote:The meter cover isn't part of the house structure, its only purpose is protecting the meter from weather, dog pee, falling objects etc. Seems reasonable that a new meter would come with a new cover.

It doesn't. I have been involved with many new builds over the years and those meter boxes attached to the house have to be supplied by the builder or electrician, as does the "hockey stick", which is the tube connecting the box to the underground channel. C.

My understanding is that smart meters use a SIM card and communicate via the cellular network. A suitable* Earthed Faraday cage would in my opinion almost certainly prevent communications. As has been suggested the cables penetrating the cage provide theoretical ways a signal could pass but I don't think enough RF energy at the frequencies involved would get through and then on to the nearest cellular mast to provide effective communication.

Chris

* Mesh size no greater than 1.4cm.

bungeejumper wrote:

AF62 wrote:Apparently the smart meter mesh networks don’t need a mobile signal - https://cyanconnode.com/telefonica-conn ... s-service/

It might be as well to check the date on that link. It was from August 2013. Now, I could easily be wrong, but after nine and a half years I'd have expected the hoo-hah to have died down by now if the Telefonica mesh system had worked as well as advertised.

2013 - when smart metering was introduced…

csearle wrote:My understanding is that smart meters use a SIM card and communicate via the cellular network. A suitable* Earthed Faraday cage would in my opinion almost certainly prevent communications. As has been suggested the cables penetrating the cage provide theoretical ways a signal could pass but I don't think enough RF energy at the frequencies involved would get through and then on to the nearest cellular mast to provide effective communication.

Chris

* Mesh size no greater than 1.4cm.

Other thread?

XFool wrote:

csearle wrote:My understanding is that smart meters use a SIM card and communicate via the cellular network. A suitable* Earthed Faraday cage would in my opinion almost certainly prevent communications. As has been suggested the cables penetrating the cage provide theoretical ways a signal could pass but I don't think enough RF energy at the frequencies involved would get through and then on to the nearest cellular mast to provide effective communication.

Chris

* Mesh size no greater than 1.4cm.

Other thread?

Cross talk and leakage seem apt though

AF62 wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:

AF62 wrote:https://cyanconnode.com/telefonica-connode-set-provide-uk-smart-meter-communications-service/

It might be as well to check the date on that link. It was from August 2013. Now, I could easily be wrong, but after nine and a half years I'd have expected the hoo-hah to have died down by now if the Telefonica mesh system had worked as well as advertised.

2013 - when smart metering was introduced…

2022 - when my near-neighbour was told (by Octopus) that they couldn't install a SMETS-2 meter because the communications won't work in our area. It doesn't look as though the mesh idea is a universal panacea, then?

For the avoidance of doubt, we don't live all alone in the middle of a blasted open field - but we're among the last few houses in a village of 1,200 people. We have no real complaints about our semi-feudal service infrastructure - no proper mobile, slow internet, foul tasting tap water - but it does get a bit annoying when our power supplier says that it's obliged to change our out-of-date electricity meter, and it isn't allowed to install anything except a smart meter, and by the way, it won't work here when they've done it.

I agree with the poster who said that the power companies will tell the customers any porkies that they find necessary, so they can hit their installation targets. And if the new equipment leaves the customers hanging for half a decade until DCC finally arrives in southern England, that's not their problem, is it?

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:but it does get a bit annoying when our power supplier says that it's obliged to change our out-of-date electricity meter, and it isn't allowed to install anything except a smart meter, and by the way, it won't work here when they've done it.

Can’t see the irritation.

What’s the difference between changing an out of date meter where you have to provide meter readings with a new meter where you have to provide meter readings.

AF62 wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:but it does get a bit annoying when our power supplier says that it's obliged to change our out-of-date electricity meter, and it isn't allowed to install anything except a smart meter, and by the way, it won't work here when they've done it.

Can’t see the irritation.

What’s the difference between changing an out of date meter where you have to provide meter readings with a new meter where you have to provide meter readings.

may be not the meter but the time you have to give up to let them in

pje16 wrote:

AF62 wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:but it does get a bit annoying when our power supplier says that it's obliged to change our out-of-date electricity meter, and it isn't allowed to install anything except a smart meter, and by the way, it won't work here when they've done it.

Can’t see the irritation.

What’s the difference between changing an out of date meter where you have to provide meter readings with a new meter where you have to provide meter readings.

may be not the meter but the time you have to give up to let them in

But you would have to give up that time anyway for them to replace the out of date meter with a new one, whatever type that new meter is.

AF62 wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:but it does get a bit annoying when our power supplier says that it's obliged to change our out-of-date electricity meter, and it isn't allowed to install anything except a smart meter, and by the way, it won't work here when they've done it.

Can’t see the irritation.

What’s the difference between changing an out of date meter where you have to provide meter readings with a new meter where you have to provide meter readings.

Well, for one thing, the new meter is effectively twice the size of the old one, so there's no space in the cupboard for it and I'll need to rip up the hallway for a bigger one, and then get an electrician to move the other switchgear. At my cost. Harrumph again.

Then again, maybe my judgement is clouded by the experience we had two years ago, when Bulb messed up a smart meter installation and left our rental tenant with no power for several days. And then told us that they had no idea what was wrong? Until we looked it up on the internet and told them. (They'd forgotten to synch their new meter with their own computers. Thanks, Google.) At which point they said thank you very much, and the lights came back on. Cowboy incompetence like that does tend to leave a lasting scar. We are in no hurry for a repeat performance from Bulb's new owners - Octopus......

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:

AF62 wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:but it does get a bit annoying when our power supplier says that it's obliged to change our out-of-date electricity meter, and it isn't allowed to install anything except a smart meter, and by the way, it won't work here when they've done it.

Can’t see the irritation.

What’s the difference between changing an out of date meter where you have to provide meter readings with a new meter where you have to provide meter readings.

Well, for one thing, the new meter is effectively twice the size of the old one so there's no space in the cupboard for it and I'll need to rip up the hallway for a bigger one, and then get an electrician to move the other switchgear. At my cost. Harrumph again.

Mine wasn’t when they replaced my dumb meter for a smart one - slightly larger, but nowhere near double the size.

And the person installing it was more than happy to move the dedicated consumer unit for my EV charger that occupied the same meter box to give them the space they needed, plus they offered to install a switched isolator free of charge in the meter box, an offer I took up.

bungeejumper wrote:We are in no hurry for a repeat performance from Bulb's new owners - Octopus......

Octopus, yep that’s my supplier, the one who was really helpful to me.

AF62 wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:Well, for one thing, the new meter is effectively twice the size of the old one so there's no space in the cupboard for it and I'll need to rip up the hallway for a bigger one, and then get an electrician to move the other switchgear. At my cost. Harrumph again.

Mine wasn’t when they replaced my dumb meter for a smart one - slightly larger, but nowhere near double the size.

https://help.bulb.co.uk/hc/en-us/articl ... rt%20meter.

You’ll need to check your existing meter has about 1ft (that’s roughly 30cm) of free space in front of it, and also on either side.

We use 1ft as a rough guide to make sure there’s going to be enough space on the wall to install your new smart meter. Your smart meter comes with a communications hub - this lets your meter talk wirelessly to the smart network. And together, they take up about the same amount of space as an A4 piece of paper.

Riiiiight. A foot on either side, a foot in front. And that space requirement was no bigger than your old dumb meter? Really?

But heck, we clearly have different experiences and we clearly live in very different locations. I wish you all happiness with your new set-up, but I also wish you could see that not all others can enjoy such an easy prospect. Over and out. See you on another forum, some time? Cheers

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:

AF62 wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:Well, for one thing, the new meter is effectively twice the size of the old one so there's no space in the cupboard for it and I'll need to rip up the hallway for a bigger one, and then get an electrician to move the other switchgear. At my cost. Harrumph again.

Mine wasn’t when they replaced my dumb meter for a smart one - slightly larger, but nowhere near double the size.

https://help.bulb.co.uk/hc/en-us/articl ... rt%20meter.

You’ll need to check your existing meter has about 1ft (that’s roughly 30cm) of free space in front of it, and also on either side.

We use 1ft as a rough guide to make sure there’s going to be enough space on the wall to install your new smart meter. Your smart meter comes with a communications hub - this lets your meter talk wirelessly to the smart network. And together, they take up about the same amount of space as an A4 piece of paper.

Riiiiight. A foot on either side, a foot in front. And that space requirement was no bigger than your old dumb meter? Really?

You are changing the narrative now.

That isn’t saying that is the size of the meter, but the space they would *like* there to be to install the meter!

There is nowhere near that space in my meter box, either around it or in front of it - heck, is there any meter box anywhere that has 12” of space between the front of the meter and the door?

But as demonstrated by them fitting my meter they certainly can and do fit if there is less space available.

My smart meter is considerably smaller than the mechanical one that was there before.

As I said in the "blocking smart meters" thread. I know an elderly couple who were given a smart meter despite them knowing, and telling the provider, that it wouldn't work cos they have no mobile signal.

Smart meters can do other things, like SEG measurements and prepayment.

swill453 wrote:How does that work? I've only heard of prepayment meters that you top up with a card or a key. My smart meter doesn't have a slot for such a thing.

Assuming your meter has mobile coverage, you can top-up from a smartphone app, or website, which then communicates back to your meter. Been around for ages (From 2015). IN THEORY this shouldn't cost the leccy company any more than contract as it requires no human interaction. Indeed, it should be safer for them as you have to pay in advance. I bet in practice it is still more expensive for the customer - any excuse.

Gryff

AF62 wrote:
What’s the difference between changing an out of date meter where you have to provide meter readings with a new meter where you have to provide meter readings.

that would imply the out of date meter had no way of providing the home owner with a reading?


becasue for some that may be the only "benefit" ?

didds wrote:

AF62 wrote:
What’s the difference between changing an out of date meter where you have to provide meter readings with a new meter where you have to provide meter readings.

that would imply the out of date meter had no way of providing the home owner with a reading?

If it’s an out of date meter that’s the issue - it is no longer guaranteed to provide an accurate reading.

didds wrote:becasue for some that may be the only "benefit" ?

Sure if it under-reading, but not if it is over-reading.