The Lemon Fool

We see a lot of foreign films and great series on Netflix, dubbed into English, but often without English subtitles. (Important when trying to understand those bloody American accents).

A really great one was a Swedish series about European girls in Syria,marrying but then realising they were trapped.

The very first scene made me laugh. Two girls walking through the streets, with Oxford Uni accents that sounded completely out of place.

Another drama, 'Ragnarok' set in Norway was brilliant. The mother had a Norwegian accent which added to the atmosphere. Given that they often speak English better than the Brits, it may have been the original actress!

So just wondering, if anyone has done some dubbing and how it works. Same goes for animated films. I imagine that it takes a lot of practice and rehearsing.


Steve

Here's how Jean-Pierre Michaël does it:

https://theearfultower.com/2021/11/08/w ... ing-films/

clissold345 wrote:Here's how Jean-Pierre Michaël does it:

https://theearfultower.com/2021/11/08/w ... ing-films/

Interesting. Thanks!

My wife is Polish and they simply have one person telling the story over the voices of the actors. It's incredibly annoying but has obviously become a tradition. Thankfully, not many countries do this.

Even in English, I usually use subtitles since I don't always understand everything. Curiously, our family is split 50-50 on this. My mum (86) seems to understand everything, whereas I need them.

I would love to do a dubbing for a film. Though my sense of humour would get me into trouble. Bruce Willis sounding like Mr Bean?


Steve

Sounds like another aspect of the tricks done to dub a song when the actor doesn't sing. Or stunt doubles! Subjects that might be worth googling.

Animation takes away the hardest problem: syncing the dubbed soundtrack with a real person's lips when visible!

I had a friend who did a related task: dubbing audio description for the blind. She was also an accomplished Thespian, which of course correlates strongly with the ability to do this kind of thing.

UncleEbenezer wrote:Sounds like another aspect of the tricks done to dub a song when the actor doesn't sing. Or stunt doubles! Subjects that might be worth googling.

Animation takes away the hardest problem: syncing the dubbed soundtrack with a real person's lips when visible!

I had a friend who did a related task: dubbing audio description for the blind. She was also an accomplished Thespian, which of course correlates strongly with the ability to do this kind of thing.

Thespian or not, I assume that where a character in a film is speaking a lot and quite fast, it must take a lot of rehearsing to get it just right.

Stunt doubles are in a different category altogether. No dubbing required. Just able to fall over a lot, high pain threshold and suffer without making a fuss.

Rather like our PE lessons when I was at school in fact.

Steve

There have been a few TV programs about this.

Can be done really cheaply, but it looks awful. Remember “Monkey”?

If you want to do it well, then a lot of trial and error is required to see what sounds/looks to match the lip movements. Professional lip readers are often employed to tell the voice actors what they think the movie actors are saying (in the new language). Often what is actually said can be a very poor translation of the original. Matching the lips is more important than the content of the conversation!

Miming a song (in your own language) is much easier than translating. Almost anyone can mime to a song with a little practice.

Increasingly nowadays, special effects can be used to make the lips match the dialogue. AI shows a lot of promise at this and may increasingly take over.

Gryff

gryffron wrote:Matching the lips is more important than the content of the conversation!

Another reason, if any were needed, to learn foreign languages. C.

csearle wrote:

gryffron wrote:Matching the lips is more important than the content of the conversation!

Another reason, if any were needed, to learn foreign languages. C.

If Jeremy Hunt can learn Japanese then so can anyone ....

csearle wrote:

gryffron wrote:Matching the lips is more important than the content of the conversation!

Another reason, if any were needed, to learn foreign languages. C.

Well, taking English as read, I speak French, Italian, enough Polish to survive and my wife the same, though curiously, I'm better at speaking Fr and Ital than her, whereas she understands them much better than me. I've always had a problem with listening and comprehension. You should see my old school reports!

But this means that if a film is in English audio but only has Italian subtitles, we'll use those. It not only helps, but I often learn something from them.

Steve

PS Many years ago in France, I saw Monty Python and the Holy Grail in English with French subtitles. I can only assume that the poor translator had a difficult time. Some of the subtitles were, '.......???????'

stevensfo wrote:PS Many years ago in France, I saw Monty Python and the Holy Grail in English with French subtitles. I can only assume that the poor translator had a difficult time. Some of the subtitles were, '.......???????'

A good translator doesn't just render the text faithfully, they also capture the spirit of the original.

In my early days in Italy, I bought a couple of Italian translations of familiar English books, to help with learning the language. One that was hugely rewarding was "Lo Hobbit". The original is of course a nicely-told story written by a professor of philology, with a lot of plays on language to educate and entertain. The translation captured all of that with Italian wordplay that was both educational and delightful to read.

Though (having forgotten the relevant name from the English original) it took me a while to figure out the surname/honorific "Scudodiquercia".

stevensfo wrote:PS Many years ago in France, I saw Monty Python and the Holy Grail in English with French subtitles. I can only assume that the poor translator had a difficult time. Some of the subtitles were, '.......???????'

Comedy is usually the hardest. A lot of jokes don't translate well. Neither culturally nor linguistically.

Gryff

...JUST DON'T DO IT!

Always prefer subtitles. (Unless they are also done stupidly)

XFool wrote:...JUST DON'T DO IT!

Always prefer subtitles. (Unless they are also done stupidly)

Fine for some. No use to others.

To take just one example, my hearing is a lot better than my eyesight. There's no way I can read subtitles on a screen!

UncleEbenezer wrote:

stevensfo wrote:PS Many years ago in France, I saw Monty Python and the Holy Grail in English with French subtitles. I can only assume that the poor translator had a difficult time. Some of the subtitles were, '.......???????'

A good translator doesn't just render the text faithfully, they also capture the spirit of the original.

In my early days in Italy, I bought a couple of Italian translations of familiar English books, to help with learning the language. One that was hugely rewarding was "Lo Hobbit". The original is of course a nicely-told story written by a professor of philology, with a lot of plays on language to educate and entertain. The translation captured all of that with Italian wordplay that was both educational and delightful to read.

Though (having forgotten the relevant name from the English original) it took me a while to figure out the surname/honorific "Scudodiquercia".

Snap! When I went to work in France, many, many years ago, I was in my Agatha Christie period. The science park had an international library but I soon finished the very few Christie books. So I started on the French translations. What I did learn was that the translators vary considerably in their vocabulary and use of language. Some books were easy, others had me reaching for the dictionary every few sentences! Italian is different in that I never felt the same pressure to learn the language that I encountered in France.

Steve

PS No matter what anyone tells you, Italian may be easier to pronounce, but the grammar is MUCH harder than French!! So many bloody vowels as well!

stevensfo wrote:PS No matter what anyone tells you, Italian may be easier to pronounce, but the grammar is MUCH harder than French!! So many bloody vowels as well!

Nothing wrong with vowels!

You are a contemporary 'Brand Consultant' - nd I clm my 10 rs.

I have a friend who supplemented his student grant by dubbing porn films into English.

Not a natural choice for someone studying Theology at Oxford.

stevensfo wrote:What I did learn was that the translators vary considerably in their vocabulary and use of language. Some books were easy, others had me reaching for the dictionary every few sentences!

Ease of reading for a foreigner is perhaps not the primary measure of a translation. What would a native speaker have experienced? An entertaining narrative, vs something stilted and turgid?

I guess the best translation of all works at all those levels. But a translator who can pull that off might be too good for the job, other than as a pure labour of love.

(Damn, that white Rioja is far-and-away the best wine I've had so far this year. Hope I'm coming across coherently).

DrFfybes wrote:I have a friend who supplemented his student grant by dubbing porn films into English.

Not a natural choice for someone studying Theology at Oxford.

For a couple of years in the mid nineties I made my living translating German into English. One of the other guys at the agency I used (Dave from the Isle of Man) had, over the years, a couple of specialisms: concrete and porn. He had built up extensive personal dictionaries to aid him in his work.

My area was electronics and telecoms and, oddly, electroplating. C.