The Lemon Fool

This article touched a nerve with me, as it raised an issue of which I’ve become increasingly aware over the past few years, namely the rise in BBC presenters with noticeable accents, whether they are regional or from overseas - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/bbc- ... 0in%202006.

I realise that it’s all part of the diversity and inclusivity diet that the BBC and the Establishment generally feel obliged to force feed us, but I find it both annoying and patronising.

The reason I find it annoying is that it’s a distraction from the content of what’s being said. When I listen to the news I want to be able to concentrate on the news itself, not start wondering in which county or country the newsreader was born.

The policy also seems to be based on a confusion between `posh’ English and standard English. A so called `posh’ accent is a distinctive accent in itself, whereas standard English is simply neutral, and completely unaccented.

I’m sure it’s also the case that people with a strong regional accent themselves - and people for whom English is not their first language - would find standard English easier to understand than English spoken with a strong regional accent from a different area / country.

This is well illustrated by one of my favourite R4 programmes, From Our Own Correspondent. This used to be presented by English reporters speaking largely standard English, but increasingly the reports are being filed by natives of the country involved, who often have very strong accents. These are not only very distracting, but are sometimes quite hard to understand.

I mentioned it when talking to a client in India recently, and he was very vociferous in support, saying that to an Indian many African accents were almost incomprehensible. He also bemoaned the fact that many Indians had used the BBC to help their children to speak good English, but that they were also disappointed that the use of standard English was diminishing.

It’s often said in defence of this policy that people with strong regional accents want to hear broadcasting by `people like them’. This may be fine for local broadcasters, but, again, this seems to be a patronising myth so far as national broadcasters are concerned. We don’t expect national newspapers to print their articles in dialect, so why should we expect national broadcasters to adopt regional accents?

So time for a poll ...

For someone like me with a hearing problem (I have two hearing aids), some of the regional accents are very difficult to understand.

I have a real problem with the concept of "standard English".

What the HELL is it! Baaaarth or Bath? The great vowel shift anyone?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift
I grew up in "the North". Got a job about 30 miles away and because of my accent was assumed to come from the south!

Look there IS no "standard English" and NEVER was. OK, there was a time when the BBC used "received pronunciation". It's "standard" because the BBC made it so.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recei ... nunciation
See previous comment about Baaaarth.

Even the Queen, stopped using the "Queens English". You just have a listen to how her accent changed when the dictates of RP were dropped!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_Pronunciation

RP is sometimes known as the Queen's English, but recordings show that even Queen Elizabeth II shifted her pronunciation over the course of her reign, ceasing to use an [ɛ]-like vowel in words like land.

"English" is a melting pot of a language. Loan words from French, German, Norse etc. The dialect changes depending upon who, historically, ruled.

Grow up and learn to call a coffee pot a "cafetière" rather than "French press". It's not that difficult you know. Or is "standard English" actually American?
If you need to figure out what scallions are, you can look it up. Hint the Americans use the term that we USE TO, and still do in places. Standard English, it's a myth.

For me it depends, if I'm watching the news or weather, I'd like a standard accent, clarity is everything.
For drama or general TV shows then a regional accent is preferred, it seems more real.

it’s all part of the diversity and inclusivity diet
Im still waiting to see a single show using the Scots language properly (and no I'm not talking about Gaelic).

Lanark wrote:For me it depends, if I'm watching the news or weather, I'd like a standard accent, clarity is everything.
For drama or general TV shows then a regional accent is preferred, it seems more real.

it’s all part of the diversity and inclusivity diet
Im still waiting to see a single show using the Scots language properly (and no I'm not talking about Gaelic).

Got to say again, what's the Scots language? Edinburgh and Glasgow are not the entire of Scotland, and not that far apart. Yet the language in each has it's own flavor.

Re "Shows", that's a different matter. As I understand it the Broadway show "Warhorse" universally used "Irish" accents. Because the actors had never come across the accent from the local the people in the show were from.

https://dsl.ac.uk/

One of the 4 official languages used in Scotland

I've struggled with a particular news reader but won't comment further.


It does remind me of a scene in Hot Fuzz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cun-LZvOTdw


If anyone has used Talk Talk or Vodafone help lines would be happy with any English that wasn't pigeon

Lanark wrote:https://dsl.ac.uk/

One of the 4 official languages used in Scotland

Scots, Gaelic, Sign and Ned?

Gerry557 wrote:I've struggled with a particular news reader but won't comment further.


It does remind me of a scene in Hot Fuzz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cun-LZvOTdw


If anyone has used Talk Talk or Vodafone help lines would be happy with any English that wasn't pigeon

It does remind me of a scene in Hot Fuzz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cun-LZvOTdw

Now that's what I call a man shed!

Steve

I prefer understandable neutral English so (as stated by OP) I can concentrate on what's being said.
Its not just the news that's being hijacked..
There is a new trough of sports' commentators who deliver in 'text speak' like 'they was on the attack' and 'we was doing this.
Painful.
But then I suppose you don't put new wine into old caskets.

Clitheroekid wrote:This article touched a nerve with me, as it raised an issue of which I’ve become increasingly aware over the past few years, namely the rise in BBC presenters with noticeable accents, whether they are regional or from overseas - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/bbc- ... 0in%202006.

I realise that it’s all part of the diversity and inclusivity diet that the BBC and the Establishment generally feel obliged to force feed us, but I find it both annoying and patronising.

The reason I find it annoying is that it’s a distraction from the content of what’s being said. When I listen to the news I want to be able to concentrate on the news itself, not start wondering in which county or country the newsreader was born.

The policy also seems to be based on a confusion between `posh’ English and standard English. A so called `posh’ accent is a distinctive accent in itself, whereas standard English is simply neutral, and completely unaccented.

I’m sure it’s also the case that people with a strong regional accent themselves - and people for whom English is not their first language - would find standard English easier to understand than English spoken with a strong regional accent from a different area / country.

This is well illustrated by one of my favourite R4 programmes, From Our Own Correspondent. This used to be presented by English reporters speaking largely standard English, but increasingly the reports are being filed by natives of the country involved, who often have very strong accents. These are not only very distracting, but are sometimes quite hard to understand.

I mentioned it when talking to a client in India recently, and he was very vociferous in support, saying that to an Indian many African accents were almost incomprehensible. He also bemoaned the fact that many Indians had used the BBC to help their children to speak good English, but that they were also disappointed that the use of standard English was diminishing.

It’s often said in defence of this policy that people with strong regional accents want to hear broadcasting by `people like them’. This may be fine for local broadcasters, but, again, this seems to be a patronising myth so far as national broadcasters are concerned. We don’t expect national newspapers to print their articles in dialect, so why should we expect national broadcasters to adopt regional accents?

So time for a poll ...

The policy also seems to be based on a confusion between `posh’ English and standard English. A so called `posh’ accent is a distinctive accent in itself, whereas standard English is simply neutral, and completely unaccented.

When I was about eight, my parents moved down from near Warwick to East Anglia, where there was quite a mix of strong Norfolk and Estuary accents. For many years, other kids called me posh because of my neutral accent! Yet it was nothing like the old BBC 'posh' accent! Being called 'posh' when I was the only boy in the road whose parents couldn't afford a new bike for Christmas didn't help my self-esteem. In fact I was bloody confused!

Regional accents are great and give depth and beauty to the country - but only as long as others can understand them. Otherwise, what chance will the kids have to get decent jobs, especially if they want to work abroad? Bill Bailey once joked about this, doing a nice impersonation of a GP with a strong West country accent trying to convince people that "yes, honest, oi really am a GP, no, honest, it's true!" Would you feel happy going to see a lawyer or surgeon who sounded like Dick Van Dyck's cockney character in Mary Poppins?

Steve

PS I think that interest in accents may have been the start of an interest in languages that continues to this day. I still remember quite vividly a woman in Tesco singing 'Happy Birthday' over the speaker, in a London/Norfolk accent , "'Appy birfday taw yaw, appy boy day toose yoose.....etc"

It is not an accent but poor diction that irritates such the elimination of consonants as in " la'er; wa'er ; communi-ee ; twenny-twenny-free ". Television programmes appear to be leaders in promoting sloppy pronunciation.

It annoys the hell out of me that any TV drama set in Wales you always get the actors speaking with a 'Max Boyce' accent - from the Valleys isn't it. Welsh accents are as varied as English and Scottish accents but you'd never know it.
Personally I prefer standard English pronounciation for the news especially serious stuff, I believe during the war they tried out Wilfred Pickles as a news reader, he had a lovely Lancashire accent, but people just didn't believe what he was telling them. As my father used to say when recounting this tale, 'at any moment I expected him to say Give hime the money Barney'.

R6

marronier wrote:It is not an accent but poor diction that irritates such the elimination of consonants as in " la'er; wa'er ; communi-ee ; twenny-twenny-free ". Television programmes appear to be leaders in promoting sloppy pronunciation.

Oh, you would love lunch in Stevenage!

"'ere ma'e, yer want yer wa'er now or la'er? Worrabou' 'bu'er on yer pota'us'?"

Steve

servodude wrote:

Lanark wrote:https://dsl.ac.uk/

One of the 4 official languages used in Scotland

Scots, Gaelic, Sign and Ned?

Scots, Gaelic, Sign and Scottish English

Clitheroekid wrote:This article touched a nerve with me, as it raised an issue of which I’ve become increasingly aware over the past few years, namely the rise in BBC presenters with noticeable accents, whether they are regional or from overseas....

I'm glad that regional accents still exist.
I hate the notion of everything descending into a uniform beige gloop, whether accents, shops, architecture, cuisine or skin colour.

But I don't want to hear regional accents on the national wireless, thankyou.

V8

Happy to hear RP. Happy to hear a range of accents (though too many 'merkin accents can get annoying). In some contexts - such as comedy or drama - they're entirely in place.

Less happy to hear accents when they're not so much spoken naturally as thrust in-your-face. Seems to happen most commonly with female voices. Oft-repeated trails are particularly egregious, though there an exaggerated accent is just one element of an overall toxic cocktail.

Just occasionally accents can make it harder to understand, though one can generally adjust. When Neil Nunez first appeared on Radio 4 it took me a couple of weeks to understand him without having to concentrate hard, but now I like his distinctive voice.

What they really shouldn't inflict on us is serious speech impediments. At least, beyond brief cameo appearances in contexts like a drama featuring someone disabled, or vox pops interviews.

UncleEbenezer wrote:Happy to hear RP. Happy to hear a range of accents (though too many 'merkin accents can get annoying).

The first time I went to America people there constantly remarked on my accent. I usually replied that I did not have one but that they did.

The truth is that everyone has an accent, even so-called "standard English" which, as far as I can tell, is Estuary English i.e. just another accent.

88V8 wrote:

Clitheroekid wrote:This article touched a nerve with me, as it raised an issue of which I’ve become increasingly aware over the past few years, namely the rise in BBC presenters with noticeable accents, whether they are regional or from overseas....

I'm glad that regional accents still exist.
I hate the notion of everything descending into a uniform beige gloop, whether accents, shops, architecture, cuisine or skin colour.

But I don't want to hear regional accents on the national wireless, thankyou.

V8

...but what's "regional" really mean?

was Huw Edwards a problem? (before all that stuff.. obviously)

I quite like a variation of accent in a conversation on the wireless - what I can't um - er take is phatic noisy interjections passing as pauses because they can't turn off their vocal chords when thinking
- and those who are too nasal or stuck in the adenoids

but those are timbral notes (and basic um thinking capabilities) that grate on my ears rather than accent issues

It is a bit annoying though should one intentionally broaden (or sharpen depending on your view?) an accent for whatever purposes as though it lends some unearned authenticity

Lootman wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:Happy to hear RP. Happy to hear a range of accents (though too many 'merkin accents can get annoying).

The first time I went to America people there constantly remarked on my accent. I usually replied that I did not have one but that they did.

The truth is that everyone has an accent, even so-called "standard English" which, as far as I can tell, is Estuary English i.e. just another accent.

In my youth, I had a serious speech impediment.... a Coventry/Brummie accent. It shocked the hell out of me the first time I heard my recorded voice. Over the years, as I moved around, and worked on a daily basis with work colleagues and customers from around the world, my voice changed and became pretty much standard english.
On one of my trips to Phoenix back in the 90s, I went to a shopping mall in Mesa one evening. It was pretty quiet. I walked into a shop.

Shop assistant: "Evening sir, how are you?"
Me: "Fine thanks, how are you?".
SA: "Hey, that's a real cute accent you got there". She called to her buddy.... "Madison, come and listen to this guy's accent"
Madison came over and I was instructed to say something.
Madison: "I love it! Where you from?"
Me: "Guess"
SA and Madison thought a bit: "You from Belgium?"
Me: No. Northwest from Belgium"
SA: "You from Moscow?" (beautifully fits the stereotype of americans being geographically challenged!)
Me: "No, Glasgow"

Goodness knows what they would have made of a real Glasgow accent.

--kiloran