Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to Wasron,jfgw,Rhyd6,eyeball08,Wondergirly, for Donating to support the site

US high yield shares

General discussions about equity high-yield income strategies
MrFoolish
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2357
Joined: March 22nd, 2020, 7:27 pm
Has thanked: 571 times
Been thanked: 1155 times

US high yield shares

#608552

Postby MrFoolish » August 12th, 2023, 9:28 am

OK, I can see I'm gonna get my wrist slapped discussing high yield US shares on the HYP-P board. Naughty me. So I'll reply to Lootman here...

Lootman wrote:
csearle wrote:pyad's restriction on UK shares was, I think, to reduce currency risk and to avoid additional fees associated with dealing in foreign-quoted shares.

Perhaps also a desire not to have to suffer the mostly unavoidable 15% US withholding tax on dividends. Which makes little difference if you are buying US shares for growth, which many do. But would present a hurdle for US high dividend shares.


My understanding though, is that many SIPPs are automatically exempt from US withholding taxes. I bought 3M as a bombed out (cheap) high yield share within my SIPP on this understanding.

Does anyone else do similar? You can trade US shares pretty cheaply in this new millennium, and sometimes even get free trading days. As for currency risk - well sometimes it works in your favour and sometimes it doesn't; I see no point in worrying about it. It also applies to those FTSE100 companies in your HYPs as they trade abroad. So you can't escape it.

seagles
Lemon Slice
Posts: 496
Joined: August 19th, 2017, 8:37 am
Has thanked: 153 times
Been thanked: 242 times

Re: US high yield shares

#608556

Postby seagles » August 12th, 2023, 9:45 am

In the past I worked for a number of US companies and thus accrued a "bucket load" of shares. Fortunately (or not) most did not give dividends, so dividend was not a major issue but in those days receiving dividends by cheque and in dollars was a real pain. So I understand why Pyad veered away from having US shares in HYP. I did contemplate buying individual US companies for my High Yield portfolio but decided that the time needed to "manage" them was not in my interest (at the time) so went down the IT route to let someone else "manage" the portfolio. Effectively running two portfolios, one along HYP rules and another on IT's. Today that has led to my SIPP being fully IT driven, with a broad mixture of Income and Growth from both UK and with Far East, US and European strings. As to trading US shares, when I did hold US shares I was lucky in the the companies managed all the buying and selling, all I had to do was make sure that I paid the relevant CGT (and tax) in the UK. This was the start of my spreadsheet usage with Excel.
If I was starting out again maybe I would look more favourable on shares other than the UK market, but in my retirement am looking for a more hands off route going forward.
Like you I see currency fluctuations as something that happens and in the end levels out, depending on when you buy and sell. With dividends we already have currency to consider as companies currently declare in US dollars, Euros and even Aus Dollars, which get a conversion rate for Stirling, so nothing much different in buying non-UK shares.

MrFoolish
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2357
Joined: March 22nd, 2020, 7:27 pm
Has thanked: 571 times
Been thanked: 1155 times

Re: US high yield shares

#608570

Postby MrFoolish » August 12th, 2023, 10:18 am

seagles wrote:In the past I worked for a number of US companies and thus accrued a "bucket load" of shares. Fortunately (or not) most did not give dividends, so dividend was not a major issue but in those days receiving dividends by cheque and in dollars was a real pain. So I understand why Pyad veered away from having US shares in HYP.


Yes, this country has changed since HYPs were devised. We now have much easier and cheaper share trading, exemption from withholding taxes in SIPPS, Brexit, a government that puts culture wars above sensible economic policies...

UK shares are currently cheap, so I don't rule them out for investment purposes. But eggs, baskets and all that. Plus you can get world-wide exposure for next to nothing from the likes of Vanguard.

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18947
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 636 times
Been thanked: 6683 times

Re: US high yield shares

#608573

Postby Lootman » August 12th, 2023, 10:25 am

MrFoolish wrote:OK, I can see I'm gonna get my wrist slapped discussing high yield US shares on the HYP-P board. Naughty me. So I'll reply to Lootman here...

Lootman wrote:Perhaps also a desire not to have to suffer the mostly unavoidable 15% US withholding tax on dividends. Which makes little difference if you are buying US shares for growth, which many do. But would present a hurdle for US high dividend shares.

My understanding though, is that many SIPPs are automatically exempt from US withholding taxes. I bought 3M as a bombed out (cheap) high yield share within my SIPP on this understanding.

Does anyone else do similar? You can trade US shares pretty cheaply in this new millennium, and sometimes even get free trading days. As for currency risk - well sometimes it works in your favour and sometimes it doesn't; I see no point in worrying about it. It also applies to those FTSE100 companies in your HYPs as they trade abroad. So you can't escape it.

Yes, I said "mostly unavoidable" for a reason.

There is an exemption for SIPPS, at least if the SIPP provider has its paperwork in order.

And for taxable accounts there is the tax credit that Salvor mentioned. Although for a basic rate taxpayer you would not get a credit for all of the 15% withholding, so that works best for higher-rate taxpayers.

Within an ISA you are stuck with the withholding.

MrFoolish
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2357
Joined: March 22nd, 2020, 7:27 pm
Has thanked: 571 times
Been thanked: 1155 times

Re: US high yield shares

#608583

Postby MrFoolish » August 12th, 2023, 10:59 am

To just add: I can't imagine you are going to get much direct exposure to the AI revolution from UK shares. You are probably going to need US shares, and low yielders at that.

SalvorHardin
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2067
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:32 am
Has thanked: 5393 times
Been thanked: 2493 times

Re: US high yield shares

#608610

Postby SalvorHardin » August 12th, 2023, 12:51 pm

For researching high yield American (and Canadian) shares, I recommend Seeking Alpha. The basic service is free and will be good enough for lots of people (I pay for the subscriber’s version which gives access to the older articles). A very useful feature is that when you set up a portfolio, that page will list all articles published which mention one or more of the shares in your portfolio. I've also linked to the page which lists the REITs articles as they are published.

REITs should be on every high yield investors watchlist. There are some extremely high yields available due to fears over interest rates, work from home reducing the demand for offices and the actions of the authorities in some cities. San Francisco seems to be turning into the new Detroit, with the big fall in demand for office space by the big tech companies whilst it is now a paradise for criminals since the authorities gave up prosecuting shoplifting and started turning the proverbial blind eye to lots of low level crimes (and some not so low level crimes)).

https://seekingalpha.com/
https://seekingalpha.com/dividends/reits

Seeking Alpha has a wide variety of posters (and comments on articles), not just private investors but also some fund managers and advisers. For REITs I recommend Brad Thomas for starters (professional REIT investor with 25 years experience of working in real estate).

https://seekingalpha.com/author/brad-thomas

Bear in mind that there are a wide variety of REITs; the sector isn't just offices and shops, and America has a much more diverse variety of locations. Examples are self-storage units, communications towers, supermarkets, healthcare facilities, residential (single occupant), residential (apartments), government buildings, data centres and life science facilities.

My main high yield REITs are SL Green (Manhattan prime offices, yield 10.1%), Brandywine Realty (Philadelphia; owns a mixture of life sciences, offices and residential, yield 15.5%) and Highwoods Properties (Southern states, prime central business district offices, yield 8.1%).

10-year US Treasury yield is 4.154% as I type this
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/bond/tmubmusd10y?countrycode=bx

July 2023 US inflation is 3.2%
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/10/cpi-inflation-july-2023-.html

rhys
Lemon Pip
Posts: 71
Joined: May 2nd, 2019, 10:55 am
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: US high yield shares

#608663

Postby rhys » August 12th, 2023, 6:06 pm

Your REITs don't appear to be doing too well?

BDN - Retained earnings are negative, and worsening over the last five years. sp was at the current level back in the 1980s.
SLG - Retained are worsening over the last five years. Net income is negative. sp back to its 2001 level.
HIW - Retained earnings are negative over the last five years. sp back to its 1998 level.

These are high yields, but with a real terms capital loss over many decades? I like the idea of REITs, I really do. They pay out almost all their income each year, but shouldn't we expect that real estate to appreciate many fold over a generation.

SalvorHardin
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2067
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:32 am
Has thanked: 5393 times
Been thanked: 2493 times

Re: US high yield shares

#608671

Postby SalvorHardin » August 12th, 2023, 6:44 pm

rhys wrote:Your REITs don't appear to be doing too well?

BDN - Retained earnings are negative, and worsening over the last five years. sp was at the current level back in the 1980s.
SLG - Retained are worsening over the last five years. Net income is negative. sp back to its 2001 level.
HIW - Retained earnings are negative over the last five years. sp back to its 1998 level.

These are high yields, but with a real terms capital loss over many decades? I like the idea of REITs, I really do. They pay out almost all their income each year, but shouldn't we expect that real estate appreciates many fold over a generation.

Funds from Operations (FFO) is what really counts with REITs, not earnings. FFO is the preferred measure, by the industry and by investment analysts (it adds back depreciation; the main argument in favour being that most buildings don't depreciate because of maintenance expenditure and inflation).

My REITs all look much better if you use FFO. It helps that I bought fairly recently after very heavy falls. SL Green is up by almost 75% since I first bought, Brandywine and Highwoods by just over 20%.

American REIT accounts look odd because they use cost minus accumulated depreciation instead of British accounts which use estimated market values. The Empire State Building has no value according to American accounting rules, which have depreciated it since 1931 to nothing (and forbid the company from putting a value on it in the accounts).

American REITs have generally outperformed the stockmarket since the 1970s. This is a common theme amongst the professionals. For example:

https://www.reit.com/news/blog/market-commentary/2022-reit-inflation-outlook

The sector has been hammered. Offices especially due to fears over work from home. I think that this is overdone for some cities, particularly New York where subway use has returned to pre-pandemic levels.

San Francisco on the other hand is seeing catastrophic falls in demand due to work from home, aggrevated by the pro-crime policies of the authorities. That's why I avoid the Californian office REITs.

SL Green recently sold 49.9% of 245 Park Avenue at roughly the same price as valued back in 2022. That was much more than the market was expecting and it put a rocket under the share prices of the New York REITs.

I wouldn't be surprised if my American REITs rose by up to a further 50% by the New Year. There is scope for further improvement due to the outlook for interest rates and inflation (plus increasing numbers returning to the office). But I also wouldn't be surprised if they took a big hit instead. That's why they yield a lot :D

1nvest
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4458
Joined: May 31st, 2019, 7:55 pm
Has thanked: 701 times
Been thanked: 1373 times

Re: US high yield shares

#608692

Postby 1nvest » August 13th, 2023, 7:12 am

Our FTSE250 stock index has somewhat aligned with both HYP1 and TJH HYP total returns (accumulation/dividends reinvested). In turn it has also somewhat aligned with the US S&P500 total return (prior to any US dividend withholding taxes).

I see it as somewhat like a tweaked HYP, reduce/top-slice winners, where the better performers are ejected out of the FT250 and into the FT100. The broader distribution also means that its more equal weighted than the FT100, single stocks don't rise to being anywhere near 10% of the index. It 'buys' 'value' stocks as replacements for those that are top-sliced, i.e. stocks that have dipped back down into the FT250 from the FT100. Yes the yield is lower, because its somewhat like having some of dividends reinvested rather than being paid out, price appreciation is faster at the expense of lower dividends, but you have the option to DIY dividends (sell some shares to create your own additional dividends at times/amount of your own choosing).

Whilst it may seem that over recent years, since Brexit, that US stocks have performed much better than UK stocks, as this chart indicates from another angle it might be considered as the US having caught back up with the prior better performing FT250

Image

That aside and my primary reason for posting is as a warning. If you directly hold US assets such as stocks to a value of more than £45K or so, then should you drop dead with a heart attack due to the surprise/delight of receiving 12.5% type dividends then your heirs will have to file for and have accepted your US Estate Tax form. Under UK/US tax treaty Brits get the same generous allowances as Americans for Estate Tax (inheritance tax), north of $12M before any tax becomes payable. For others with no such tax treaty agreement US Estate Tax can be much more punitive and covers total global assets/estate value. The default is that you're not exempted, has to be filed for within the correct timescales, using the correct version of forms, correctly completed. Potentially prone to being rejected - sorry you used a older version of the form and the time has passed where you might resubmit another. If you do end up paying US Estate tax then the UK will be inclined to offset that against UK inheritance taxation, but potentially the US tax might be considerably more than what UK IHT might be.

Yet another caution is that if you buy a fund stock rather than a actual stock, then HMRC may charge capital gains (price appreciation) as income tax. I held CHY for many years, a mutual that primarily focused upon Convertibles, and had a nice monthly 10%/year type dividend being provided from that, however the EU changed the rules such that it was no longer really an appropriate holding anymore for me and I disposed of it. Mostly its price broadly flat lined, and the 10% yield was pretty much its total return, but where I bought the dips/reduced-at-highs using Robert Lichello's AIM to bolster that.

Yet another caution, inside a ISA and you can't offset US withholding tax against UK dividend tax. Also you can't hold US$ inside a ISA so you'll get hit with the brokers FX costs, which maybe 1.5% each way, 3% round trip (ii for instance with smaller amounts). Interactive Broker are good on that front with near zero FX rates small fractional percent).

SIPP's are counted as being a pension fund by the US, so have dividend withholding taxes exempt. I believe you may be permitted to hold US$ within a SIPP, not sure as I don't have one myself, but that could entail the 3% type round trip FX costs.

Not trying to put you off, US stocks are a great place to invest provided you go in with your eyes wide open. There are UK solicitors that are well versed in dealing with the likes of US Estate Tax and establishing one of those whilst your still alive to deal with your probate (and US assets) would be 'good practice', aid your heirs (just make sure they know to contact/use that solicitor asap in the event of your sudden death). They should file the correct forms, within the correct timescale, correctly completed - or otherwise be at risk of being sued for such a failing. If death is imminent, such as you're informed you have six months at most for instance, then obviously you might sell out of US assets yourself to simplify matters for your heirs, however that could entail a sizeable taxable event rather than having a step-up average cost/share for heirs.

At least that is my understanding, but I'm just a layman stranger on some message board that may have incorrectly understood things, so as ever DYOR.

I had hoped by now that Brexit might have led to a reversion to older ways, outside of the US/EU tit for tat. KIDD documentation requirements for instance where without such near useless piece of paperwork EU citizens cannot reasonably buy/trade US funds, such that most US entities simply don't bother getting involved in 'European reporting/documentation' requirements. Similar IMO to the annoyance of having to click 'accept cookies' EU induced bother on pretty much every web page you visit. When we left the EU we rolled EU law into UK law, and so far UK/US stock trading laws have yet to be 'reviewed'. Here's hoping for the better sooner rather than later as yes the US can be a great market both for costs and range of options. Sadly the UK (or rather predominance of Remainers within Parliament) has opted to eject the beneficial changes that might have been made to instead redirect the UK back towards possible re-entry back into the EU. Such that given investment windows of ten plus years perhaps looking to buy/hold US stocks/funds may not be best of choices, maybe instead looking towards European stock holding instead :lol: (good luck with that, as its far more Socialist and far less inclined to be reasonably regulated towards capitalism/investors).

floyd3592
Lemon Pip
Posts: 98
Joined: November 4th, 2017, 5:13 pm
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: US high yield shares

#612186

Postby floyd3592 » August 30th, 2023, 4:28 pm

SalvorHardin wrote:For researching high yield American (and Canadian) shares, I recommend Seeking Alpha. The basic service is free and will be good enough for lots of people (I pay for the subscriber’s version which gives access to the older articles). A very useful feature is that when you set up a portfolio, that page will list all articles published which mention one or more of the shares in your portfolio. I've also linked to the page which lists the REITs articles as they are published.


My main high yield REITs are SL Green (Manhattan prime offices, yield 10.1%), Brandywine Realty (Philadelphia; owns a mixture of life sciences, offices and residential, yield 15.5%) and Highwoods Properties (Southern states, prime central business district offices, yield 8.1%).

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/10/cpi-inflation-july-2023-.html


How did u purchase ur US REIT holdings? I quite like the look of EPR Proerties & W.P. Carey but my HSBC US sharedealing platform wont let me purchase REITs, only individual listed companies.

Charlottesquare
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1794
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:22 pm
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 567 times

Re: US high yield shares

#612196

Postby Charlottesquare » August 30th, 2023, 5:10 pm

floyd3592 wrote:
SalvorHardin wrote:For researching high yield American (and Canadian) shares, I recommend Seeking Alpha. The basic service is free and will be good enough for lots of people (I pay for the subscriber’s version which gives access to the older articles). A very useful feature is that when you set up a portfolio, that page will list all articles published which mention one or more of the shares in your portfolio. I've also linked to the page which lists the REITs articles as they are published.


My main high yield REITs are SL Green (Manhattan prime offices, yield 10.1%), Brandywine Realty (Philadelphia; owns a mixture of life sciences, offices and residential, yield 15.5%) and Highwoods Properties (Southern states, prime central business district offices, yield 8.1%).

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/10/cpi-inflation-july-2023-.html


How did u purchase ur US REIT holdings? I quite like the look of EPR Proerties & W.P. Carey but my HSBC US sharedealing platform wont let me purchase REITs, only individual listed companies.


My HL UK platform seems to have both.

EPR PROPERTIES (EPR) SBI USD0.01
Sell:$44.90 Buy:$44.94 $0.34 (0.75%)
Prices delayed by at least 15 minutes | Preferences
Ex-dividend today
Add to watchlist
This stock can be held in a
ISA Lifetime ISA SIPP Fund & Share Account


*WP CAREY INC (WPC) USD0.001
Sell:$65.01 Buy:$65.04 $0.13 (0.20%)
Prices delayed by at least 15 minutes | Preferences
Add to watchlist
This stock can be held in a
ISA Lifetime ISA SIPP Fund & Share Account

SalvorHardin
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2067
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:32 am
Has thanked: 5393 times
Been thanked: 2493 times

Re: US high yield shares

#612204

Postby SalvorHardin » August 30th, 2023, 5:43 pm

floyd3592 wrote:How did u purchase ur US REIT holdings? I quite like the look of EPR Proerties & W.P. Carey but my HSBC US sharedealing platform wont let me purchase REITs, only individual listed companies.

I'm classified as a professional investor because of my experience, work history and qualifications.

Some online brokers' systems will let you buy REITs as long as the company's name doesn't include "REIT" or "Real Estate Investment Trust". REIT in the company name triggers the KIID test, which is failed because American REITs are not going to produce a KIID (a nonsensical document IMHO) to satisfy a stupid British law.

scrumpyjack
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4861
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:15 am
Has thanked: 616 times
Been thanked: 2706 times

Re: US high yield shares

#612206

Postby scrumpyjack » August 30th, 2023, 5:56 pm

I have a holding in Jackson Financial which yields 6.5%. It is the only direct US share I hold and arose when they were demerged from Prudential 2 years ago.

I kept them because I thought they would do well when free of the dead hand of remote UK management (the Pru) and also due to pure inertia!

They have done very well - rising 50% plus throwing out a very good dividend. I gave them to my wife because of the high divi and the withholding tax can be offset against HRT.

Probably we should get rid of them, but again inertia rules, and being so small (in US terms - only £2.5 bn) they don't seem to get much analyst coverage.

SalvorHardin
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2067
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:32 am
Has thanked: 5393 times
Been thanked: 2493 times

Re: US high yield shares

#616356

Postby SalvorHardin » September 21st, 2023, 3:45 pm

A follow up on my three American high yield REITs. Today we’ve seen a good example of the risks inherent in high yield American REITs; yesterday evening after the market closed when Brandywine Realty Trust cut its dividend by 21% to 15 cents per quarter. Brandywine’s shares have fallen by almost 6% this morning to $4.63 as I type this, making the yield a mere 12.9%. I’m still 10% up (plus one dividend of 19 cents).

Highwoods Properties’ dividend hasn’t changed and I’m about 11% up having had one quarterly dividend. The current yield is 9.0%.

SL Green Realty Corp. continues to be the standout performer, I’m up almost 105% on my first purchase (about 75% overall) and the yield has consequently fallen to 8.0% (paid monthly). If only a few more of my shares did this well!

SL Green isn’t a conventional high yield share for me; it’s a play on the market having been far too pessimistic about New York offices (particularly those in prime locations on Manhattan Island). The combination of talking to people on the ground, interviews with property managers and investors, plus New York subway passenger journey numbers (lots more than forecast, closing in on pre-pandemic levels), police crime statistics (not as bad as some of the media is portraying) and tourist numbers (have risen a lot) strongly indicates to me that there’s still quite a bit of mileage in this share.

The rise from $20 to $40.70 has been extremely rapid, though not surprising in hindsight. SL Green's CEO was interviewed by CNBC on 12th September about the strong demand for luxury real estate and employees increasingly returning to the office in Manhattan.

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/09/12/sl-green-realty-ceo-theres-tremendous-demand-for-luxury-real-estate-in-new-york.html

San Francisco and the rest of the West Coast are still too dodgy for me because law and order is breaking down in many cities. A major problem for investors is that the authorities in many municipalities have almost legalised burglary from shops (aka “shoplifting”) as long as you steal less than $950. A similar policy operates in the UK, as we’ve seen in recent days with a huge increase in media reports about organised burglary from shops, thanks to the Conservatives having limited the maximum penalty for shoplifting under £200 of goods to a £70 fine.

From 2017: “Most police forces no longer attend reports of routine shop theft and will only send an officer to investigate if there has been a threat of violence against a member of staff. Those caught stealing less than £200 are now dealt with "by post", in the same way as speeders, leading to the effective decriminalisation of shoplifting.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/26/police-spark-shoplifting-boom-not-probing-thefts-200/

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18947
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 636 times
Been thanked: 6683 times

Re: US high yield shares

#616379

Postby Lootman » September 21st, 2023, 4:49 pm

SalvorHardin wrote:San Francisco and the rest of the West Coast are still too dodgy for me because law and order is breaking down in many cities. A major problem for investors is that the authorities in many municipalities have almost legalised burglary from shops (aka “shoplifting”) as long as you steal less than $950. A similar policy operates in the UK, as we’ve seen in recent days with a huge increase in media reports about organised burglary from shops, thanks to the Conservatives having limited the maximum penalty for shoplifting under £200 of goods to a £70 fine.

From 2017: “Most police forces no longer attend reports of routine shop theft and will only send an officer to investigate if there has been a threat of violence against a member of staff. Those caught stealing less than £200 are now dealt with "by post", in the same way as speeders, leading to the effective decriminalisation of shoplifting.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/26/police-spark-shoplifting-boom-not-probing-thefts-200/

The other political risk in California is the ridiculous demand for "reparations" for blacks. Right now in SF the local council passed 11-0 a policy of paying each black in SF a sum of $5 million. This is in a free state with no slaves. It will not happen but serves to show why such places are uninvestible, given that such funds would mostly be raised from property.

Parts of the US are more nutjob left-wing than Europe.

flyer61
Lemon Slice
Posts: 579
Joined: November 11th, 2016, 12:53 pm
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 216 times

Re: US high yield shares

#616503

Postby flyer61 » September 22nd, 2023, 9:53 am

Getting slightly off topic....there was a young woman on the media last week calling for the Met to be disbanded. That's fine, but I wish to have the right to bear arms and openly carry if this were to happen. Personally speaking, you come on my property and are up to no good, well......

back to high yield US shares.....I have bought two recently.

AT and T...the market has got it in it's head that it has a big liability for some old piping. I'm betting this won't come to pass or if it does it will be for far less than the numbers being touted about. Anyway it will be tied up in the courts forever....and in the meantime there is the dividend...

Macys....a department store! Chart is ugly! PE of 4, the market has priced it for disappearing from the face of the earth. As has been mentioned above Manhatten is coming back and it's flagship store is here. Has a bit of debt but selling the HQ building would probably knock a goodly junk of this off. The play here is if the management can get a sniff of growth into the business then the shares have huge scope to go back up. It's a gamble but they are profitable and there is a reasonable dividend on offer.

Good luck all!

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18947
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 636 times
Been thanked: 6683 times

Re: US high yield shares

#616506

Postby Lootman » September 22nd, 2023, 10:01 am

flyer61 wrote:back to high yield US shares.....I have bought two recently.

AT and T...the market has got it in it's head that it has a big liability for some old piping. I'm betting this won't come to pass or if it does it will be for far less than the numbers being touted about. Anyway it will be tied up in the courts forever....and in the meantime there is the dividend...

Macys....a department store! Chart is ugly! PE of 4, the market has priced it for disappearing from the face of the earth. As has been mentioned above Manhatten is coming back and it's flagship store is here. Has a bit of debt but selling the HQ building would probably knock a goodly junk of this off. The play here is if the management can get a sniff of growth into the business then the shares have huge scope to go back up. It's a gamble but they are profitable and there is a reasonable dividend on offer.

A good few years ago a prominent hedge fund manager (Eddie Lampert) bought a controlling interest in Sears Roebuck, a chain of US department stores as well known as Macy's. His investment thesis was the same as yours here with Macy's - that the large property portfolio that Sears had would eventually be reflected in its share price.

Sears ended up filing for bankruptcy and was de-listed from NYSE in 2018. It currently trades for less than a buck on the OTC pink sheets.

You are a brave man. :D

As for AT&T, it was at $60 a few years ago, and is currently around $15. That is where those fat dividends came from!

But if you like those two then you should take a look at Walgreens, another utter Dog of the Dow. Down from $90 to $15 but look at that yield!

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7536 times

Re: US high yield shares

#616513

Postby Dod101 » September 22nd, 2023, 10:27 am

I am highly nervous about buying individual US shares because I simply do not know enough about them or the market. I am afraid that I might be like Warren Buffett when he bought into Tesco some years back. And if he can get it wrong....... Besides, if it is income you are after, the UK market has plenty of choice.

Dod

SalvorHardin
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2067
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:32 am
Has thanked: 5393 times
Been thanked: 2493 times

Re: US high yield shares

#616550

Postby SalvorHardin » September 22nd, 2023, 12:21 pm

Dod101 wrote:I am highly nervous about buying individual US shares because I simply do not know enough about them or the market. I am afraid that I might be like Warren Buffett when he bought into Tesco some years back. And if he can get it wrong....... Besides, if it is income you are after, the UK market has plenty of choice.

Investing in America (and Canada) isn't difficult, nowadays it's cheap and it's relatively easy to find out a lot about American companies compared to when Doris's portfolio gave us the HYP rules. Doris was buying shares in the pre-internet days, probably when we had exchange controls, so it's no surprise that her entire portfolio was listed in London. Online dealing costs are lower than buying in London (at least once you've converted from sterling to US dollars) and there's no stamp duty (except on larger purchases than most private investors make (and even then it's much smaller than the UK).

There's also a much stronger private investor culture in America than Britain (where investing in shares is not a mainstream activity). This means that vastly more information available to American investors (okay, this also means that there is a lot more nonsense and hype on American investor boards and blogs).

Warren Buffett makes mistakes, the difference between him and most investors is that he owns up to them. British supermarkets have been an extremely competitive market for many years and they are unable to obtain the economies of scale that Wal-Mart has; this wasn't a secret at the time. He's made far worse buys than Tesco (ConocoPhillips springs to mind as does the original Berkshire Hathaway textile company).

America gives us access to companies for which there is no London listed equivalent, in industries which the UK has a very tiny or non-existent presence and where the British companies are not very enticing. The best example I can give is when Berkshire Hathaway bought BNSF railroad in 2009, which lead to a flurry of articles and posts (on TMF) about investing in British railway companies (mostly First Group).

Shortly after the BNSF bid was announced I bought some Union Pacific (UP) and wrote on TMF (at some length) that if you wanted to follow Buffett the most straight forward thing to do was to buy BNSF's closest competitor UP instead of a British passenger railway company (American railroads almost exclusively carry freight and have massive geographical advantages over trucks). This was laughed at by many, especially HYP diehards who liked First Group's yield. As I type this since the BNSF takeover my Union Pacific shares are up by over 750% (16.5% CAR plus dividends), First Group shares are down by over 55%.

Regarding American high yielders, asides from REITs the one group that leaps out are the mining and oil & gas royalty companies (I've never invested in these). The only equivalent I can think of that's listed in London is Ecora Resources (name changed from Anglo Pacific in October 2022).

The big thing to get used to with American REITs is the weird accounting (GAAP) compared to British accounting standards. You can't put estimated market value in American accounts, you must use acquisition or construction cost minus accumulated depreciation (and you can't quote a British-style NAV). The result is that balance sheets rarely represent the value of the property assets whilst the profit & loss account totally ignores increasing property prices. American REITs' prefer to emphasise Funds from Operations (FFO) instead of statutory GAAP profit (analysts and investors prefer FFO as it's much closer to the actual performance).

And as you know, the big Canadian banks are much better investments than British banks and haven't reduced their dividends since 1940 :D

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18947
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 636 times
Been thanked: 6683 times

Re: US high yield shares

#616553

Postby Lootman » September 22nd, 2023, 12:32 pm

SalvorHardin wrote:
Dod101 wrote:I am highly nervous about buying individual US shares because I simply do not know enough about them or the market. I am afraid that I might be like Warren Buffett when he bought into Tesco some years back. And if he can get it wrong....... Besides, if it is income you are after, the UK market has plenty of choice.

Regarding American high yielders, asides from REITs the one group that leaps out are the mining and oil & gas royalty companies (I've never invested in these). The only equivalent I can think of that's listed in London is Ecora Resources (name changed from Anglo Pacific in October 2022).

Some of these royalty trusts are structured as limited partnerships. You might not know that just looking at a listing or even buying one, as they look just like normal stocks. But then once a year you get a K-1 tax document, and that is a bear to interpret, at least in a taxable account. And their strange tax structure could mean that they cannot be bought in an ISA or SIPP (I have not tried so do not know for sure).

Royalty trusts are by their nature depleting assets. You just hope that the cash dividends over the life of the resource will more than compensate for the fact that eventually the share price will be zero! You could view them as annuities although, in the short-term, they can rise in price significantly if the underlying resource price inflates.


Return to “High Yield Shares & Strategies - General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests