The Lemon Fool

We had a bit of a Santa Rally yesterday with, in my case, the exception of Unilever. What's up with this company? They now have their new CEO in place. What is he doing? Also the supposed activist on board and yet the share price is going backwards.

Are they all asleep?

Dod

Yes. Reminds me of ICI. We all know how that ended.

I was contemplating trying to be clever and do my sales in December, then my purchases in January. December boom, January hangover.

The new Chair took over on 1 December and the new CFO takes over on 1 January but you would think that they might have had something to say since they are inheriting a company with at the very least, a very poor image these days.

However it always amuses me when they appoint some employee as President Ice Cream. That just about sums up the entire company. Looks good on the surface but there seems to be no substance to it. In fact of course there are some very valuable brands but it is just that they seem incapable of getting a grip and maximising the potential of them.

I think it is time for us shareholders to write to the new Chairman (or attend the AGM in the summer) and make our feelings known although I would hope that they will have something to say long before then,

Dod

bluedonkey wrote:I was contemplating trying to be clever and do my sales in December, then my purchases in January. December boom, January hangover.

A variation of the old 'sell in May' approach ...

Sorry to be boring, but wasn't it the Fed's interest rate decision prognosis? Resulting in a rising tide that lifted all the boats except the ones that were really holed below the waterline?

BJ

Dod101 wrote:The new Chair took over on 1 December and the new CFO takes over on 1 January but you would think that they might have had something to say since they are inheriting a company with at the very least, a very poor image these days.

However it always amuses me when they appoint some employee as President Ice Cream. That just about sums up the entire company. Looks good on the surface but there seems to be no substance to it. In fact of course there are some very valuable brands but it is just that they seem incapable of getting a grip and maximising the potential of them.

I think it is time for us shareholders to write to the new Chairman (or attend the AGM in the summer) and make our feelings known although I would hope that they will have something to say long before then,

Dod

I think Terry Smith summed up Unilever rather well when he was highly critical of the company and it's very poor recent performance. Glad that I sold out with a profit. In no rush to buy again.

Dod101 wrote:The new Chair took over on 1 December and the new CFO takes over on 1 January but you would think that they might have had something to say since they are inheriting a company with at the very least, a very poor image these days.

However it always amuses me when they appoint some employee as President Ice Cream. That just about sums up the entire company. Looks good on the surface but there seems to be no substance to it. In fact of course there are some very valuable brands but it is just that they seem incapable of getting a grip and maximising the potential of them.

I think it is time for us shareholders to write to the new Chairman (or attend the AGM in the summer) and make our feelings known although I would hope that they will have something to say long before then,

Dod

You mean the new CEO of ice cream, Mr W.Hippy * ?

I think you might have to give it a year to see whether the new CEO improves things. It's gone very quiet regarding Nelson Peltz.

I should add, I largely sold out of Unilever a while ago. I had to ask myself why I was holding it and concluded that I could get an immediate better yield in an investment trust with, hopefully, a lower risk. I reflected on the lack of progression in dividend (a frozen divi...sorry, couldn't resist). I was also concerned, like others, that shoppers were cost conscious and electing to buy supermarket own brands rather than the price hiked shrinkflated Unilever ones.





* I picked up on Mr Kulve's job title!
viewtopic.php?p=623429#p623429

BullDog wrote:

Dod101 wrote:The new Chair took over on 1 December and the new CFO takes over on 1 January but you would think that they might have had something to say since they are inheriting a company with at the very least, a very poor image these days.

However it always amuses me when they appoint some employee as President Ice Cream. That just about sums up the entire company. Looks good on the surface but there seems to be no substance to it. In fact of course there are some very valuable brands but it is just that they seem incapable of getting a grip and maximising the potential of them.

I think it is time for us shareholders to write to the new Chairman (or attend the AGM in the summer) and make our feelings known although I would hope that they will have something to say long before then,

Dod

I think Terry Smith summed up Unilever rather well when he was highly critical of the company and it's very poor recent performance. Glad that I sold out with a profit. In no rush to buy again.

You are if I may say so good at selling out as you reported some time back you had done with SSE. Last night, SSE shares closed at just short of £19. Unilever has some great brands and so I live in hope that the company can be revived and prosper with the various new men in charge (Chair, CEO and CFO) Like SSE it has plenty of opportunities to do well but certainly has lost its way with all the nonsensical emphasis on green issues and purpose rather than hard driving selling of their products.

Dod

monabri wrote:

Dod101 wrote:The new Chair took over on 1 December and the new CFO takes over on 1 January but you would think that they might have had something to say since they are inheriting a company with at the very least, a very poor image these days.

However it always amuses me when they appoint some employee as President Ice Cream. That just about sums up the entire company. Looks good on the surface but there seems to be no substance to it. In fact of course there are some very valuable brands but it is just that they seem incapable of getting a grip and maximising the potential of them.

I think it is time for us shareholders to write to the new Chairman (or attend the AGM in the summer) and make our feelings known although I would hope that they will have something to say long before then,

Dod

You mean the new CEO of ice cream, Mr W.Hippy * ?

I think you might have to give it a year to see whether the new CEO improves things. It's gone very quiet regarding Nelson Peltz.

I should add, I largely sold out of Unilever a while ago. I had to ask myself why I was holding it and concluded that I could get an immediate better yield in an investment trust with, hopefully, a lower risk. I reflected on the lack of progression in dividend (a frozen divi...sorry, couldn't resist). I was also concerned, like others, that shoppers were cost conscious and electing to buy supermarket own brands rather than the price hiked shrinkflated Unilever ones.





* I picked up on Mr Kulve's job title!
viewtopic.php?p=623429#p623429

You are quite right you did pick up on President Ice Cream but it appeared again in a recent announcement and I thought the analogy withe the entire company was a fair one. Re Peltz, when he came in I did wonder what he might bring to the table at his age and it seems precious little. They need to do something and soon. I wonder what their result will look like. Poor I imagine as the new execs in charge are likely to find a few write offs to clear the decks for their tenure.

Dod

monabri wrote:
I should add, I largely sold out of Unilever a while ago. I had to ask myself why I was holding it and concluded that I could get an immediate better yield in an investment trust with, hopefully, a lower risk. I reflected on the lack of progression in dividend (a frozen divi...sorry, couldn't resist). I was also concerned, like others, that shoppers were cost conscious and electing to buy supermarket own brands rather than the price hiked shrinkflated Unilever ones.





* I picked up on Mr Kulve's job title!
viewtopic.php?p=623429#p623429

I had to ask myself why I was holding it and concluded that I could get an immediate better yield in an investment trust with, hopefully, a lower risk.

Unfortunately, that is true of many single share holdings - an IT is (nearly) always going to be lower risk.

I'm just holding on to the thought that it is the yield of the whole portfolio with a multiplicity of shares which counts!

Arb.

I'm surprised at SSE's shareprice but I won't be investing there.

I've indicated my view on Unilever and am sitting on the touchline watching what happens.

Still, differing views make a market and we are moving off (my fault) the original post of a ' santa rally.'

With regard to a possible rally, what does it matter unless one wants to sell ? ( Is a Santa rally just for Christmas? ).

monabri wrote:I'm surprised at SSE's shareprice but I won't be investing there.

I've indicated my view on Unilever and am sitting on the touchline watching what happens.

Still, differing views make a market and we are moving off (my fault) the original post of a ' santa rally.'

With regard to a possible rally, what does it matter unless one wants to sell ? ( Is a Santa rally just for Christmas? ).

I am not in the least surprised about SSE because it is a well run company with clear plans for investment over the next few years and despite the dividend cut I was very happy to continue to hold. Unilever could well take a leaf out of its book and in fact will have to do something similar otherwise it will become the next ICI as was mentioned above.

The Santa Rally is a bit of a side issue but it is quite encouraging nevertheless because the market is always anticipating the future.

Dod

But but but.....

What is the latest Misson statement on Helmans Mayonnaise.

A day one task surly.

Maybe they should get back to doing what Mr Buffet liked about them. I thought they would take the usual dip early spring. Maybe next year.

Yes yesterday looked very dark green on my spreadsheet yesterday. Might end a little bit red by end of week but looking like another green end to the week. Is that 4 or 5 weeks in a row now.

So, once again I’m buying a share in a sea of negativity. Nothing makes me feel happier! You need to give the new broom time to get his feet under the table tbh. It strikes me there are so many easy wins if you’re prepared to hold for 2-3 years and let him improve efficiency. Unilever is an obviously bloated organisation. The revenue per employee is simply dreadful compared to Procter & Gamble - P&G has 20% fewer employees and generates 30% more sales. I’d be looking over my shoulder and considering my options next year if I worked there. Nothing better for a share price than disposals and layoffs.

Unilever is losing out to supermarket own branded products. With cost of living and supermarket inflation, ppl are switching to cheaper own brand alternatives to keep their weekly shopping bill down. Think that's bigger reason.

Adamski wrote:Unilever is losing out to supermarket own branded products. With cost of living and supermarket inflation, ppl are switching to cheaper own brand alternatives to keep their weekly shopping bill down. Think that's bigger reason.

You’re being too parochial and missing the point. Unilever is a global company with powerful brands. The fact your friends have switched to Lidl’s own brand is irrelevant to the future growth.

simoan wrote:

Adamski wrote:Unilever is losing out to supermarket own branded products. With cost of living and supermarket inflation, ppl are switching to cheaper own brand alternatives to keep their weekly shopping bill down. Think that's bigger reason.

You’re being too parochial and missing the point. Unilever is a global company with powerful brands. The fact your friends have switched to Lidl’s own brand is irrelevant to the future growth.

Brand companies like Unilever work on the basis of high quality products priced highly and lots of advertising spending to back up the brand. There is then a high gross profit margin to pay for the advertising and still leave a good net margin. The problem comes when the own brands, like Lidl and Aldi, up the quality of their equivalents and consumers cotton that these alternative products are just as good. It isn't just consumers 'trading down' when times are hard.

This is what is happening and Unilever's products are steadily losing market share and margin.

One plus for Unilever is their Hindustan Unilever, which is very large and operates in countries with increasingly affluent middle classes who hopefully will fall for the branded product spiel.

I'm glad Peltz is there to kick them in the proverbials. It is very difficult to change anything in a juggernaut like Unilever.

scrumpyjack wrote:

simoan wrote:You’re being too parochial and missing the point. Unilever is a global company with powerful brands. The fact your friends have switched to Lidl’s own brand is irrelevant to the future growth.

Brand companies like Unilever work on the basis of high quality products priced highly and lots of advertising spending to back up the brand. There is then a high gross profit margin to pay for the advertising and still leave a good net margin. The problem comes when the own brands, like Lidl and Aldi, up the quality of their equivalents and consumers cotton that these alternative products are just as good. It isn't just consumers 'trading down' when times are hard.

This is what is happening and Unilever's products are steadily losing market share and margin.

One plus for Unilever is their Hindustan Unilever, which is very large and operates in countries with increasingly affluent middle classes who hopefully will fall for the branded product spiel.

I'm glad Peltz is there to kick them in the proverbials. It is very difficult to change anything in a juggernaut like Unilever.

You need to look at sales by geography. The UK accounts for less than 4%. The new management have so many easy wins, especially once input inflation subsides, that the upside for the share price greatly outweighs the downside. That is what investing is about. Only works for the patient though.

I could never allow my self to sell Unilever simply because of its world class brands but at the same time we have been waiting for management to do a sort out for a long time. I think we need a statement of intent early in the New Year if not before to reassure investors that the new management is on to it.

Dod