The Lemon Fool

After a very entertaining first week with England just about pipping Italy, Wales no show against Scotland in the first 43 mins and then failing by one point and in the big one France playing in an after party fug against a rampaging and successful Irish team; we have started the second weekend with 2 duds. Wales at least showed up for the first half against England but were just outkicked and then out muscled in the second half to go down by 2 points. Clearly both very average teams. Scotland won against France then didn't. The referee was poor throughout and then made an almighty blunder in slow motion supported by the wavering TMO in the last play of the match by disallowing a try for the Scots. France were poor again though as usual you expect them to suddenly wake up at some stage in the tournie. Today will be a cakewalk for Ireland at home to Italy, Looks a one horse race.

T7

2 weeks time Wales to the slaughter in Dublin, an average Scotland edging England (Didds you sure still want to go?) and France waking up against Italy.

Ireland have rotated heavily this week and Italy are significantly better this year I think. New coach more promising. Ireland clearly favourite but might be tougher than some think.

Lots of reffing inconsistencies, including the use of TMO.

England's new blitz defence looks interesting. You can see them dominating for periods, but also coughing up tries when it goes slightly wrong. Finn Russell will fancy a piece of that. ScovEng could go either way, and if it'd England then they will be 3 from 3...

France RWC hangover is perhaps the most surprising. Yes, they're missing DuPont, but they look strangely clueless in their attack.

I'd pretty much agree with terminal7 there - though I'd say Berry wasn't necessarily in the wrong wrt that Scotland non-try. He couldn't see so sent it upstairs.

the real problems lay with the protocol which seems to mean he has to give a on field no-try or try based on an inability to see anything anyway, which then the TMO has to definitively overturn based on concrete evidence which will rarely be available in such circumstances anyway - having then hung himself out to dry by saying "There is the ball on the ground".

All in all a very unedifying scenario for WR, the ref and the TMO which basically left all three looking very very foolish.

https://twitter.com/didds62/status/1757080524697338142

The Scotland try was a bizarre sequence of events which I'm not sure will happen that often.

Ref may have made a small error in calling held-up too soon, given he had an excellent close position, or he just missed the roll off the boot, or he discounted it as a second movement (but didn't say anything). Calling no try on field, the video evidence was 98+% suggestive of a try but not fully conclusive, so the call was understandable - if the try had been given on field, it would not have been overturned.

The TMO was babbling in a tricky situation, and should have been very precise with what he did and didn't say. I can understand why he felt he had to backtrack, but then he looked silly, and lays all of this open to criticism.

Does the protocol now fully disallow a "try or no try" question?

Contrast with Luke Pearce the English ref who twice corrected himself yesterday (Ire v Ita) without any fuss or loss of face.

Ok - my view is that this coming weekend's fixtures only have one interesting match to neutrals. Much as it grieves me I forecast yet another Dublin slaughter followed by a French awakening with a 20 plus win over Italy.

The only interesting and competitive match is likely to be Scotland v England. I think the home advantage will swing it and FR will sprinkle yet more magic at Murrayfield.

Lack of a seriously good (and consistent) challenger to Ireland is having an adverse impact on the tournament. Maybe this should be expected following the RWC with teams trying to rebuild - sometimes with shallow pools of real talent.

T7

terminal7 wrote:Ok - my view is that this coming weekend's fixtures only have one interesting match to neutrals. Much as it grieves me I forecast yet another Dublin slaughter followed by a French awakening with a 20 plus win over Italy.

The only interesting and competitive match is likely to be Scotland v England. I think the home advantage will swing it and FR will sprinkle yet more magic at Murrayfield.

Lack of a seriously good (and consistent) challenger to Ireland is having an adverse impact on the tournament. Maybe this should be expected following the RWC with teams trying to rebuild - sometimes with shallow pools of real talent.

T7

Agree the big one this week is Sco v Eng. I think it could go either way, and if England win then it sets up a very big game at Twickenham v Ireland, with championship and possibly slam to fight for. Borthwick England can win any game in those circumstances...then they would have to travel to France for the very last game of the championship, with several outcomes still possible.

So it's still wide open, based on my 5 or 6 ifs

terminal7 wrote: Maybe this should be expected following the RWC with teams trying to rebuild - sometimes with shallow pools of real talent.

T7

Other than

England are not appearing to rebuild in any real manner other than replacing those players that have retired/taken a year out/moved abroad
Scotland similarly but to a lesser degree and with a better base anyway
Italy are permanently "building" let alone rebuilding
Wales are definitely rebuilding with some exciting youngsters
France are a bit like England wrt unavailable players but there are only away until the olympics are done and dusted!

Predictably Ireland - even with a sub-optimal performance - beat Wales comprehensively though had a struggle getting the bonus point. It seems Wales are heading for another period in the wilderness having such a shallow pool of world class talent.

England imploded under real pressure after a good start. There is something seriously askew with the England set-up - ridiculous 'celebrations' following minor on field successes, basic handling errors etc.

No Dupont no ideas France - terrible quality at Lille from both teams though an exciting second half with France a man short and of course a heart-breaking last few minutes for Italy. Actually neither side deserved to win.

T7

Pretty much agree with terminal7./ All Id add about England last Saturday is that - notwithstanding basic errors - at least they seemed to be TRYING to do something, rather than churn out the same turgid dross they had in their previous two games which chiefly consisted of one out hit ups and ford sitting 15m behind the gain line.

The penultimate weekend of the tournament and potentially one of the more intriguing rounds.

A slightly resurgent Italy (albeit against a shambolic French team with a man down for all the second half) against a growing class act In Scotland - Scotland to win well.

Ireland will silence the usually taciturn Twickenham crowd and win comfortably. Maybe the end is in sight For Borthwick? English forward red card?

Probably the most difficult to call - Wales v France. Fabien Galthie has to produce soonest and we all expect France to wake up at some stage. Seems this would be the appropriate opportunity for a emphatic win against a poor Welsh team.

T7

Henry Pollock seems like a good new prospect for England, god knows, we need something.

But the main reason to include this link is for the video clip of the referee, "I'm not mad, I'm disappointed!" ...priceless.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68423080

To paraphrase Muhammed Ali - England have two chances against Ireland: A dog's chance and no chance.

Leothebear wrote:To paraphrase Muhammed Ali - England have two chances against Ireland: A dog's chance and no chance.

Looks like the dog got lucky

Ireland were completely outplayed, outmuscled and outthought - surely one of the best performances by England in recent seasons. The 2 backs 6 forwards Irish subs bench clearly backfired with the early Cash's HIA departure and then his replacement Frawley suffering a similar fate early in second half. However nothing takes away from the English performance.

Italy continued where they left off against France and deserved to win against a once again disappointing performance from Scotland. Scotland appear to be incapable of putting together an 80 min game.

Well 2 wrong out of 2 - let's hope I am wrong this afternoon. Incidentally an Italy/England/Wales treble was 75/1 yesterday morning.

T7

Wales put up a valiant effort until the last quarter - despite being starved of possession and they scored some opportunist tries of high quality. Then the French Bomb squad came out around the 60 mark with front row replacements and in the subsequent arm wrestle it became men against boys. Overall the French recovered some credibility after the Italian debacle but remain fairly middle grade, whilst the Welsh appear to be starting on a period in the wilderness.

T7

The final weekend of a very exciting but low quality 6 Nations - possibly the hangover from the 2023 WC.

With North back for his last hurrah of an illustrious career, I expect the Welsh team to drag out a do or die effort and vanquish the Italians. Wales by 8.

Ireland will still be smarting from Twickenham and will be back to their A game and will wallop the Scots - Ireland by 18.

And finally the most intriguing match and the finale - France v England. I expect an almighty first quarter - a couple of yellows could influence the result when one side starts having to play catch-up. France by 7.

T7

terminal7 wrote:The final weekend of a very exciting but low quality 6 Nations - possibly the hangover from the 2023 WC.

With North back for his last hurrah of an illustrious career, I expect the Welsh team to drag out a do or die effort and vanquish the Italians. Wales by 8.

Ireland will still be smarting from Twickenham and will be back to their A game and will wallop the Scots - Ireland by 18.

And finally the most intriguing match and the finale - France v England. I expect an almighty first quarter - a couple of yellows could influence the result when one side starts having to play catch-up. France by 7.

T7

Wales to find some pride and beat Italy, Ireland to win, France/England a tough call (both sides could be excellent or poor).

General:
Wales disappointing, Scotland lots of potential but erratic, Ireland very good but not up to the hype standard, England a new start with a high ceiling, French with a RWC hangover and key missing players.

But Italy - just wow. And it's been building for a few years in their age grades and with Benetton. Menoncello at centre looks incredible at just 21.

Good to have a competitive tournament - hopefully the calls of "drop Italy" will disappear now. Dare we wish for a 2nd div with the Rugby Europe championship nations - Bel/Ger/Por/Ned/Geor/Spa?

terminal7 wrote: whilst the Welsh appear to be starting on a period in the wilderness.

T7

au contraire. they've been in the wilderness for a couple of years already, as some of the old guard were kept on too long for the RWC cos they hadn't brought on younger players in a timely manner, aided and abetted by the ghastly scenarios in Welsh franchise rugby finances etc etc. Now that those old guard have retired and the regions if not flush with funds are at least cutting their cloth a little better (the bar was low) Wales now have a young team capable of some exciting things ahead if allowed to develop and aren't subjected to knee jerk results-at-all costs selections. They are in the position that France was circa 5 years ago...

terminal7 wrote: Scotland appear to be incapable of putting together an 80 min game.

T7

something seems to have gone very wrong for them in the last year. maybe Hogg was more influential than believed ? (one man not making a team obviously).

BigB wrote:Dare we wish for a 2nd div with the Rugby Europe championship nations - Bel/Ger/Por/Ned/Geor/Spa?

It already exists

https://www.rugbyeurope.eu/competitions ... mpionship/

and matches are often live on their youtube channel

https://www.youtube.com/@RugbyEuropeOfficial/streams