Openreach Stop Sell dilemma

[bungeejumper]

Moderator Message:
Moved from DAK to Technology etc (chas49)

Our new neighbour has a problem. He's just moved into his rented house, and he can't get a broadband signal because he hasn't got a working landline. BT Openreach stopped providing new landline services in September, in what's been called the Stop Sell. It's one of the preliminary stages of the analogue switch-off which is currently scheduled for 2025.

So what's our neighbour supposed to do? Use a 4G mobile signal, of course. Except that we don't have even 3G in this rural part of the world, and even 2G isn't reliable indoors. Next idea?

Hook up to his FTTP fibre connection, then. Except that we won't be getting one of those until next year at the earliest. Our own landline phone provider has just moved us over to VOIP, but even that still depends on the copper cables. With luck we'll have transitioned in time for the analogue switch-off, but our neighbour doesn't have the means to start the process because he can't even sign up for a service.

What's left? Satellite broadband? Expensive and clunky, especially since he'll have a fibre connection some time next year. Carrier pigeons, then? A loudhailer? Semaphore?

BJ

[swill453]

Let him share your WiFi?

Scott.

[Watis]

Let him share your WiFi?

Scott.

That's a great idea, Scott - it must be, because it occurred to me, too!

Based on my memories of bungeejumper's posting history, he lives in rural Wiltshire - so his neighbour may be out of sight - and out of Wi-Fi range.

Watis

[kempiejon]

I thought about sharing too. How about Virgin? I'm pretty sure they ran their own coax to properties in my street. Not sure they'd do a one off in the countryside though? Starlink?

[mc2fool]

Our new neighbour has a problem. He's just moved into his rented house, and he can't get a broadband signal because he hasn't got a working landline.

So there is a landline but it's just not working? And BT/Openreach are refusing to fix it? What did the previous tenant do for broadband? Or a landline indeed?

[bungeejumper]

Let him share your WiFi?

Based on my memories of bungeejumper's posting history, he lives in rural Wiltshire - so his neighbour may be out of sight - and out of Wi-Fi range.

Super-thick stone walls, too. But heck, would you let somebody share your wifi if you didn't know them very well indeed? Not sure I'm ready for that.

Thanks all the same!

BJ

[pochisoldi]

The stop sell is for voice over copper.
They haven't stopped selling new connections, it's just that those new connections will be broadband only, with any "landline" for voice riding over the broadband connection rather than directly over a copper wire.

Think of it as needing a "broadband connection", not a "new landline with broadband".

[UncleEbenezer]

The stop sell is for voice over copper.
They haven't stopped selling new connections, it's just that those new connections will be broadband only, with any "landline" for voice riding over the broadband connection rather than directly over a copper wire.

Think of it as needing a "broadband connection", not a "new landline with broadband".

Not before time!

The need (or more recently the expectation) to pay for a landline just to get broadband was a ripoff for years!

[bungeejumper]

The stop sell is for voice over copper.
They haven't stopped selling new connections, it's just that those new connections will be broadband only, with any "landline" for voice riding over the broadband connection rather than directly over a copper wire.

Give that man a prize! Thanks, it wasn't how I'd understood Zen's description (https://www.zen.co.uk/blog/posts/zen-bl ... -business/)

The first and most obvious thing to bear in mind about the stop sell is that, from now on, no new analogue services will be available. That means, for example, traditional PSTN and ISDN landlines or ADSL and FTTC broadband.

If you’re looking for a new broadband or telephone connection – perhaps you’re looking for a new provider or moving premises – then you’ll no longer be able to order any service that relies on the old copper telephone network.

Here's hoping that light will prevail.

BJ

[pochisoldi]

The stop sell is for voice over copper.
They haven't stopped selling new connections, it's just that those new connections will be broadband only, with any "landline" for voice riding over the broadband connection rather than directly over a copper wire.

Give that man a prize! Thanks, it wasn't how I'd understood Zen's description (https://www.zen.co.uk/blog/posts/zen-bl ... -business/)

The first and most obvious thing to bear in mind about the stop sell is that, from now on, no new analogue services will be available. That means, for example, traditional PSTN and ISDN landlines or ADSL and FTTC broadband.

If you’re looking for a new broadband or telephone connection – perhaps you’re looking for a new provider or moving premises – then you’ll no longer be able to order any service that relies on the old copper telephone network.

Here's hoping that light will prevail.

BJ

Here's my experience of the PSTN shutdown, which

For the record, I'm with Zen. Until August this year I was on FTTC broadband.
(1) I had a pair of copper wires which ran from the electronics in a cabinet in the street, through a crossconnection cabinet, through a duct, up a telegraph pole, across the street, down the front of my house into a BT socket.
(2) The BT socket had a ADSL filter plugged in, with a connection to the phone and another connection to my router (Fritzbox 7530).
(3) The voice and broadband both rode directly over the copper to and from the cabinet, with the

They swapped me onto SOGEA.
This means that (1) above remained exactly the same
(2) above changed to BT socket only has a direct connection to my router (Fritzbox 7530) (I removed the filter when I moved the phone over)
The phone now plugs into the "FON" socket on the router.
(3) The broadband rides directly over the copper to and from the cabinet. The voice goes to the router, which turns it into packets which go over the broadband connection back to Zen's "exchange".

The switchover was done by Zen - they did their end, and remotely configured the Fritzbox router at my end.
All I had to do was move the physical phone connection over, and get rid of the filter.

Both FTTC broadband and SOGEA have the broadband connection running over fibre as far as the cabinet.
The one crucial difference between the two is that FTTC broadband has a dedicated copper connection all the way back to the telephone exchange for voice. It is this copper connection that is being eliminated.

[Watis]

Give that man a prize! Thanks, it wasn't how I'd understood Zen's description (https://www.zen.co.uk/blog/posts/zen-bl ... -business/)

Here's hoping that light will prevail.

BJ

Here's my experience of the PSTN shutdown, which

For the record, I'm with Zen. Until August this year I was on FTTC broadband.
(1) I had a pair of copper wires which ran from the electronics in a cabinet in the street, through a crossconnection cabinet, through a duct, up a telegraph pole, across the street, down the front of my house into a BT socket.
(2) The BT socket had a ADSL filter plugged in, with a connection to the phone and another connection to my router (Fritzbox 7530).
(3) The voice and broadband both rode directly over the copper to and from the cabinet, with the

They swapped me onto SOGEA.
This means that (1) above remained exactly the same
(2) above changed to BT socket only has a direct connection to my router (Fritzbox 7530) (I removed the filter when I moved the phone over)
The phone now plugs into the "FON" socket on the router.
(3) The broadband rides directly over the copper to and from the cabinet. The voice goes to the router, which turns it into packets which go over the broadband connection back to Zen's "exchange".

The switchover was done by Zen - they did their end, and remotely configured the Fritzbox router at my end.
All I had to do was move the physical phone connection over, and get rid of the filter.

Both FTTC broadband and SOGEA have the broadband connection running over fibre as far as the cabinet.
The one crucial difference between the two is that FTTC broadband has a dedicated copper connection all the way back to the telephone exchange for voice. It is this copper connection that is being eliminated.

I too am with Zen and have the FritzBox 7530 router.

When I was switched to SOGEA I just had to plug my analogue phone into the router, however it wasn't clear whether the microfilter should be left in the circuit. I thought it would no longer be required.

On investigating further, I found this video on Zen's website which describes how to make the transfer to SOGEA with an analogue phone and it specifically states that the microfilter should remain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfAe4no7flo

pochisoldi - I would be interested to know whether you have noticed any deterioration in your broadband service without the microfilter in place?

Watis

[chas49]

Moderator Message:
Moved from DAK to Technology etc (chas49)

[Infrasonic]

So what's our neighbour supposed to do? Use a 4G mobile signal, of course. Except that we don't have even 3G in this rural part of the world, and even 2G isn't reliable indoors. Next idea?

You can get high power external ariel's dedicated to mobile signals.

WiFi.
You can get long range transceiver set-ups that will transmit WiFi signals over hundreds of metres or even miles (if your pockets are deep enough).

US only currently...https://www.ownyourownfuture.com/starli ... as-you-go/

Starlink Pay As You Go: Everything You Need To Know

September 15, 2023
Starlink, SpaceX’s satellite internet service, has revolutionized high-speed internet access across the globe. With Starlink’s Pay As You Go service, you can get access to fast, reliable satellite internet without a long-term contract.

If you’re short on time, here’s a quick answer to your question: Starlink Pay As You Go allows you to purchase internet access in increments, with no long-term contract required. You pay a one-time hardware cost for the Starlink kit and then prepay for increments of internet access when you need it.

[pochisoldi]

pochisoldi - I would be interested to know whether you have noticed any deterioration in your broadband service without the microfilter in place?

No deterioration - the distance between my router and the next piece of electronics up the line is too short for the filter to have any effect.
(When I had ADSL which had a copper path from home all the way back to the exchange, removing the filter and the phone gave a minor increase in connection speed).

Technical bit:
The ADSL filter only affects the signal passing from the input towards the connection to the phone.
Between the input and the "phone" output there's a low pass filter.
Between the input and the router connection there's nothing.
It's the phone that needs the filter, not the router.

If you leave the filter in place, it's another pair of connections to go wrong in a box that serves no purpose, and it looks ugly - get rid of it.

PochiSoldi

[didds]

The stop sell is for voice over copper.
They haven't stopped selling new connections, it's just that those new connections will be broadband only, with any "landline" for voice riding over the broadband connection rather than directly over a copper wire.

Think of it as needing a "broadband connection", not a "new landline with broadband".

Yup. We were having issues with our "landline" a couple of weeks ago and after a very frustrating time trying to find somebody to actually talk to I shoved a snotter-tweet out on twitter/X/whatever its called this week, and within ten minutes i was talking to a human being.

They 9and this is point of my post) explained amongst other things, that there is no longer any "line rrental" and "landline" - we pay for broadband on top of which comes FREE OF CHARGE (woooo!) VOIP. So yes - what Pochi said ... you get broadband supplied not a landline

Now - of course - if BJ's neighbour is being told they cant have that that suggests a glitch in training at BT/supplier end. may be worth neighbour calling at a different time of day and see if they get a different BT bod that understands better?

[didds]

Not before time!

The need (or more recently the expectation) to pay for a landline just to get broadband was a ripoff for years!

The reality beign they just charge the same for B/band and FREE landline as they did landline + broadband!

its merely semantics

[stockton]

The Openreach "No copper" or "Stop sell" policy is totally stupid and seems to have been dreamt up by someone who has never lived outside a city. Your neighbour should complain to both Ofcom and their MP.
We have been without a telephone for the last six months despite having a perfectly good copper line which Openreach refuse to connect. Current plans seem to be that they will replace a problematic telephone pole before Xmas.
It is only minor compensation that BT made a mistake with their messaging and will probably have to pay us about £500 for having no telephone.