WiFi boiler controller

[Dicky99]

I've posted on here previously that last year I replaced my Graslin combi boiler control with a WiFi one.
All last winter I just used it manually, turning it on and off on demand using the mobile phone app, including using the countdown timer facility both for turning the boiler off in X hours or turning it on in X or hours.
This year with the onset of the heating season I decided to program the seven day timer to set 3 intervals of heating each day.
It soon became apparent that the heating wasn't coming on at the times programmed and further observations indicated that it was always firing up 8 hours too soon.
It doesn't take a genius to suspect that the software is behaving as though I'm in Beijing despite its app settings correctly reporting my precise UK location. Other than location there is no time and date option in the settings.
I'm reluctant to delete and reload the software because I recall it was an [expletive deleted] ache getting it to find my controller so best leave that option alone.
One fix, as suggested by a pal, is to offset all my programme times by 8 hours which would be easy but a bit defeatist.
The other would be to find a better generic app. The one I have now is called Chome on Playstore.
Does anyone know what may be causing this other than a badly produced app, or a suggestion for a good app?

[Urbandreamer]

Err,

You do know that we have no idea of what type/manufacturer of "WiFi" boiler you have.
My "boiler" is a boiler. Some 10 years old. Some 20 years ago it had a Drayton wireless thermostat, that failed this year.
OK, forget about my "WiFi" boiler.

How about your boiler control. Is it NEST, HIVE, WISER etc?

Possibly someone here may have a similar control system. I don't currently as my "WiFi" control is very dumb, and certainly doesn't interact with the internet, over fiber or phone line.

TBF, my boiler is controlled over radio waves, just as used in WiFi, but at a different frequency. I have been looking into changing to yet another system based upon just such, by another well known central heating control firm, but that does interface with the internet. The advantage would be individual control over radiator valves.

You might like to try a different board. Possibly this one talking about boilers.
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=41163

[swill453]

The other would be to find a better generic app. The one I have now is called Chome on Playstore.
Does anyone know what may be causing this other than a badly produced app, or a suggestion for a good app?

I've never actually heard of a boiler controlled by a generic app, usually the manufacturer of the thermostat supplies an app.

And if I look for "Chome" in the play store I can't find it. It keeps trying to suggest I'm looking for Chrome, the Google web browser.

Scott.

[NotSure]

And if I look for "Chome" in the play store I can't find it. It keeps trying to suggest I'm looking for Chrome, the Google web browser.

Scott.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.chome.samrt&hl=en_SG

[Dicky99]

I've never actually heard of a boiler controlled by a generic app, usually the manufacturer of the thermostat supplies an app

Scott.

Well it's effectively just a WiFi on/off switch. This one...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Optimum-OP-BM- ... th=1&psc=1

and with so many household electrical items now turn off and on-able by app I suppose it shouldn't be necessary to be tied to the supplied software if that software isn't very good.

[Itsallaguess]

I've never actually heard of a boiler controlled by a generic app, usually the manufacturer of the thermostat supplies an app

Well it's effectively just a WiFi on/off switch. This one...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Optimum-OP-BM-IHTWF01-Universal-Immersion/dp/B077NBZ3LD

and with so many household electrical items now turn off and on-able by app I suppose it shouldn't be necessary to be tied to the supplied software if that software isn't very good.

Many of the user-reviews on that Amazon page say that they've had good results from using the Tuya Smart app, so given your timing issues with your current utility, I think it's worth giving that Tuya app a go to see if it solves the problems -

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tuya.smart&hl=en&gl=US

To test the above Tuya app, it doesn't necessarily mean removing your current solution. You could keep the cHome app as things stand, and simply remove the current boiler timing-schedule completely. That way, it should still recognise the connection if you decide to remove the Tuya app and revert back to your current set-up, by simply re-configuring the boiler timing schedule with cHome again...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Mike4]

I've never actually heard of a boiler controlled by a generic app, usually the manufacturer of the thermostat supplies an app

Scott.

Well it's effectively just a WiFi on/off switch. This one...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Optimum-OP-BM- ... th=1&psc=1

and with so many household electrical items now turn off and on-able by app I suppose it shouldn't be necessary to be tied to the supplied software if that software isn't very good.

Out of interest, have you wired it to the boiler to interrupt just the "Call for heat" live terminal? I expect you will have as I'm sure you'll have realised the multiple reasons not to turn a boiler OFF by isolating all power from it.

This was fine with boilers made up until about 1975 but not since. Its rather like shutting your computer down by pulling the plug out of the wall. Gets the job done in a rough and ready way but in rare circumstances some horrible damage can result.

[Dicky99]

Well it's effectively just a WiFi on/off switch. This one...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Optimum-OP-BM-IHTWF01-Universal-Immersion/dp/B077NBZ3LD

and with so many household electrical items now turn off and on-able by app I suppose it shouldn't be necessary to be tied to the supplied software if that software isn't very good.

Many of the user-reviews on that Amazon page say that they've had good results from using the Tuya Smart app, so given your timing issues with your current utility, I think it's worth giving that Tuya app a go to see if it solves the problems -

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tuya.smart&hl=en&gl=US

To test the above Tuya app, it doesn't necessarily mean removing your current solution. You could keep the cHome app as things stand, and simply remove the current boiler timing-schedule completely. That way, it should still recognise the connection if you decide to remove the Tuya app and revert back to your current set-up, by simply re-configuring the boiler timing schedule with cHome again...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I've been faffing around with that app this evening and I can't get it pair

[Dicky99]

Out of interest, have you wired it to the boiler to interrupt just the "Call for heat" live terminal? I expect you will have as I'm sure you'll have realised the multiple reasons not to turn a boiler OFF by isolating all power from it.

This was fine with boilers made up until about 1975 but not since. Its rather like shutting your computer down by pulling the plug out of the wall. Gets the job done in a rough and ready way but in rare circumstances some horrible damage can result.

I'm guessing you mean because of the need for a short overun on the pump after the shut off. The spade connectors match the configuration of the old Graslin timer so it's just a matter swapping them over like for like.

[servodude]

Out of interest, have you wired it to the boiler to interrupt just the "Call for heat" live terminal? I expect you will have as I'm sure you'll have realised the multiple reasons not to turn a boiler OFF by isolating all power from it.

This was fine with boilers made up until about 1975 but not since. Its rather like shutting your computer down by pulling the plug out of the wall. Gets the job done in a rough and ready way but in rare circumstances some horrible damage can result.

I'm guessing you mean because of the need for a short overun on the pump after the shut off. The spade connectors match the configuration of the old Graslin timer so it's just a matter swapping them over like for like.

MCU controllers will have (some) state in transient storage - so putting the power is generally frowned upon.
It will cope with it (or should hopefully given it's been sold as an embedded system) but it will have been designed to be normally on and aware

[swill453]

I'm guessing you mean because of the need for a short overun on the pump after the shut off. The spade connectors match the configuration of the old Graslin timer so it's just a matter swapping them over like for like.

MCU controllers will have (some) state in transient storage - so putting the power is generally frowned upon.
It will cope with it (or should hopefully given it's been sold as an embedded system) but it will have been designed to be normally on and aware

My last house had an ATAG combi boiler. It had a fairly lengthy startup and test sequence.

From applying power to being ready to fire up took 7 minutes.

Scott.

[Itsallaguess]

I've been faffing around with [Tuya Smart App] this evening and I can't get it pair.

There's a few tips dotted about regarding Tuya that might help -

1. had same problem myself got it working by having switch in pairing mode ie blinking blue light, open the app click + symbol top right hand corner to add a device and on next screen click "search device" top right side of screen and the app will search and all going well find the device like mine did.

2. I use the tuya home app and just + device to large home appliance / water heater

3. Please select "socket" when adding this or any single channel devices to the app.

(1, 2, and 3 from - https://www.amazon.co.uk/ask/questions/Tx4OT8XWD4NLFI/ref=ask_dp_lsw_al_hza?asin=B077NBZ3LD)

4. pair using AP mode (slow flashing on device) with 5ghz wireless channel disabled on the router - https://www.amazon.co.uk/ask/questions/Tx3GT5UL82KZ4TH/ref=ask_dp_lsw_al_hza?asin=B077NBZ3LD

Regarding number 4 above, it does seem like a few people have had issues with 5ghz wireless router channels, so it will be worth taking a look at your router settings and seeing if you can set it to 2.4ghz wireless only, at least during any pairing-phase attempts, just to see if that's been an issue for you earlier...

And just as a belt and braces option for the Tuya app you've been trying, here's a walk-through of that app for connecting it to a different Smart device, but which at least shows the specific steps taken in Tuya to get that device connected, just to make sure that you're not missing something daft in your own attempts -

https://www.hydrothermhotwatersystems.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/HYDROTHERM-WIFI-MANUAL.pdf

Another option, if you've not tried it already, is the Smart Life app, which is also mentioned in one of the reviews for your Smart timer, where someone had some success with it -

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tuya.smartlife&hl=en&gl=US

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Dicky99]

2. I use the tuya home app and just + device to large home appliance / water heater

Another option, if you've not tried it already, is the Smart Life app, which is also mentioned in one of the reviews for your Smart timer, where someone had some success with it -

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tuya.smartlife&hl=en&gl=US

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Thanks Itsallaguess for an amazing bit of beyond the call of duty research. The combination of using the Smart Life app and suggestion 2. above, i.e. employ manual setup rather than relying on the autoscan, worked a treat. Not only that but it's firing up as programmed rather than on Beijing time

[Gerry557]

Have you tried a different control device, a second phone or tablet.

It does sound like a setting issue. Your not still on holiday time.

The app you linked too seems poor so a better one might be worth a try.

[Dicky99]

Have you tried a different control device, a second phone or tablet.

It does sound like a setting issue. Your not still on holiday time.

The app you linked too seems poor so a better one might be worth a try.

No it hadn't occurred to me to try other devices but since I have a variety of redundant tablets I might give that a go.

[Itsallaguess]

Thanks Itsallaguess for an amazing bit of beyond the call of duty research.

The combination of using the Smart Life app and suggestion 2. above, i.e. employ manual setup rather than relying on the autoscan, worked a treat.

Not only that but it's firing up as programmed rather than on Beijing time

Great news - thanks for confirming that you're up and running with it all.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess