Water Butt stands

[mc2fool]

I want to raise our water butts by around 75cms and I'm wondering what folks thoughts are on the best way to build some stands for them.

The biggest will need to be 75cms high some 55-60cms deep, 120-130cms wide, open at least front to back (it'll straddle a 40d x 90w drain) and with no possibility of a central support except at the very front. It'll be for two 250L butts, so 500+Kg.

Happy to hear ideas. Cost is a consideration.

(A little stuck on thinking about timber based stands as I can't seem to find a load bearing calculator anywhere that will tell me if, e.g. 2x4s on edge will do it or if I'd need to get bigger and/or double up and/or ... so if anyone knows where there's one, please link! )

[kempiejon]

Probably not what you'd use but my two are on concrete blocks that I acquired from freecycle.

[mc2fool]

Probably not what you'd use but my two are on concrete blocks that I acquired from freecycle.

I'd consider that (esp from freecycle!) for the other butts that don't need to straddle a drain, but how high are they? Concrete blocks stacked up to 75cms might remind one of a Jenga stack.

[kempiejon]

Internet say blocks are 75mm x 440mm x 215mm. I have one butt on 6 blocks, 3 per layer width height if you see what I mean, so about 43cm, the other a little lower made from a frame of two width height with 2 flat on top so only about 30cm.

[Urbandreamer]

(A little stuck on thinking about timber based stands as I can't seem to find a load bearing calculator anywhere that will tell me if, e.g. 2x4s on edge will do it or if I'd need to get bigger and/or double up and/or ... so if anyone knows where there's one, please link! )

Ours stands on something like this, and has for about 20 years.
https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Univers ... d/p/189521

Re calculations. The most common size of butt is 200 to 280 L. As 1 L is 1 Kg, that's about 280 Kg, when full.
You could go from there to your calculations, however many things will support that weight. I don't recommend a wooden pallet, as they rot, but the most basic will support many times that weight.

A quick web search.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pine+2x ... ssion+test
Seems to suggest that pine 2x4 in compression will easily take that load. The difficulty might be constructing a stand that doesn't fail at any joints.

[mc2fool]

Internet say blocks are 75mm x 440mm x 215mm. I have one butt on 6 blocks, 3 per layer width height if you see what I mean, so about 43cm, the other a little lower made from a frame of two width height with 2 flat on top so only about 30cm.

Your blocks or some blocks you found sizes of on the web? There are a variety of sizes, 75mm x 440mm x 215mm is one, 100mm x 440mm x 215mm is another, 215mm x 440mm x 215mm is another and I'll bet there are more too. In any case, at those heights I wouldn't expect any problem and it would probably work OK for our other butts that only need to be raised as much as 75cms.

(A little stuck on thinking about timber based stands as I can't seem to find a load bearing calculator anywhere that will tell me if, e.g. 2x4s on edge will do it or if I'd need to get bigger and/or double up and/or ... so if anyone knows where there's one, please link! )

Ours stands on something like this, and has for about 20 years.
https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Univers ... d/p/189521

Re calculations. The most common size of butt is 200 to 280 L. As 1 L is 1 Kg, that's about 280 Kg, when full.
You could go from there to your calculations, however many things will support that weight. I don't recommend a wooden pallet, as they rot, but the most basic will support many times that weight.

A quick web search.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pine+2x ... ssion+test
Seems to suggest that pine 2x4 in compression will easily take that load. The difficulty might be constructing a stand that doesn't fail at any joints.

Yeah, we already have those kind of stands. We want to raise the whole caboodle by 75cms, i.e. put the butts on their Wickes-type stands on top of a 75cm high stand.

As I said in the OP, the biggest stand will be for two 250L butts, so 500+Kg. The legs in compression is one thing but at 120-130cms wide I need to suss out what will be needed to support 500kg across that width.

[mc2fool]

Well, I've found a timber beam calculator, at least a limited free demo one, but I'm not clear on how to use it to figure out what timber I should use for my requirements, or how to interpret the results. Any ideas anyone?

https://www.timberbeamcalculator.co.uk/en-gb/calculator/timber-beam/british-standards

[ReformedCharacter]

Is the 75cm extra height critical? In the past I've used 100mm square fence posts for certain jobs and I'm sure they would easily bear the load. 75mm also available. B&Q or your local farm supplier:

https://www.diy.com/departments/blooma-pine-square-fence-post-h-2-4m-w-100mm/5013053155776_BQ.prd

RC

[mc2fool]

Is the 75cm extra height critical? In the past I've used 100mm square fence posts for certain jobs and I'm sure they would easily bear the load. 75mm also available. B&Q or your local farm supplier:

https://www.diy.com/departments/blooma-pine-square-fence-post-h-2-4m-w-100mm/5013053155776_BQ.prd

RC

Uh? What does the height of the stand got to do with the thickness of the timber to be used, in particular for the horizontal beams? They'll have to support 500Kg across a 120-130cms length irrespective of how high the stand is.

Maybe those 4x4s will do it, but I'd prefer to be confident about that before sticking half a ton across them, and going the other way, cost is a consideration so I'd prefer to avoid spending more than is needed on overkill.

[ReformedCharacter]

Is the 75cm extra height critical? In the past I've used 100mm square fence posts for certain jobs and I'm sure they would easily bear the load. 75mm also available. B&Q or your local farm supplier:

https://www.diy.com/departments/blooma-pine-square-fence-post-h-2-4m-w-100mm/5013053155776_BQ.prd

RC

Uh? What does the height of the stand got to do with the thickness of the timber to be used, in particular for the horizontal beams? They'll have to support 500Kg across a 120-130cms length irrespective of how high the stand is.

Maybe those 4x4s will do it, but I'd prefer to be confident about that before sticking half a ton across them, and going the other way, cost is a consideration so I'd prefer to avoid spending more than is needed on overkill.

Sorry, I misunderstood your question, confused 75mm with 75cm, amongst other things.

RC

[Crazbe7]

I want to raise our water butts by around 75cms and I'm wondering what folks thoughts are on the best way to build some stands for them.

The biggest will need to be 75cms high some 55-60cms deep, 120-130cms wide, open at least front to back (it'll straddle a 40d x 90w drain) and with no possibility of a central support except at the very front. It'll be for two 250L butts, so 500+Kg.

Happy to hear ideas. Cost is a consideration.

(A little stuck on thinking about timber based stands as I can't seem to find a load bearing calculator anywhere that will tell me if, e.g. 2x4s on edge will do it or if I'd need to get bigger and/or double up and/or ... so if anyone knows where there's one, please link! )

Why?

[mc2fool]

I want to raise our water butts by around 75cms and I'm wondering what folks thoughts are on the best way to build some stands for them.

The biggest will need to be 75cms high some 55-60cms deep, 120-130cms wide, open at least front to back (it'll straddle a 40d x 90w drain) and with no possibility of a central support except at the very front. It'll be for two 250L butts, so 500+Kg.

Happy to hear ideas. Cost is a consideration.

(A little stuck on thinking about timber based stands as I can't seem to find a load bearing calculator anywhere that will tell me if, e.g. 2x4s on edge will do it or if I'd need to get bigger and/or double up and/or ... so if anyone knows where there's one, please link! )

Why?

Because the property is on a bit of a slope and I want to drip water some beds that are on the higher side, and it's not possible to move the butts to higher ground. Raising them in situ is the only practical solution.

[servodude]

Why?

Because the property is on a bit of a slope and I want to drip water some beds that are on the higher side, and it's not possible to move the butts to higher ground. Raising them in situ is the only practical solution.

I'd be tempted to look for some second hand medium/heavy duty scaffolding (on ebay? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266291766446)
angle grind a transom to size and put a board on top

- or a small solar pump

[Dicky99]

I want to raise our water butts by around 75cms and I'm wondering what folks thoughts are on the best way to build some stands for them.

The biggest will need to be 75cms high some 55-60cms deep, 120-130cms wide, open at least front to back (it'll straddle a 40d x 90w drain) and with no possibility of a central support except at the very front. It'll be for two 250L butts, so 500+Kg.

Happy to hear ideas. Cost is a consideration.

(A little stuck on thinking about timber based stands as I can't seem to find a load bearing calculator anywhere that will tell me if, e.g. 2x4s on edge will do it or if I'd need to get bigger and/or double up and/or ... so if anyone knows where there's one, please link! )

I wonder if there is a sufficiently heavy duty Dexion angle to cope with those kind of loads if you diagonally braced the uprights.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/shelving ... lsrc=aw.ds

[Nimrod103]

Isn't it the same problem with positioning a water tank in the loft or airing cupboard? The main loft water tank in my house is not supported by very heavy timbers (though it is a long time since I looked to be honest).

[servodude]

Isn't it the same problem with positioning a water tank in the loft or airing cupboard? The main loft water tank in my house is not supported by very heavy timbers (though it is a long time since I looked to be honest).

Yeah it is but even in an attic the structural load is normally borne by beams (then through the walls and down) even if it sits on planks between the beams.
They're often flatter than butts also changing the force per area

[mc2fool]

Thanks for the replies folks.

Scaffolding is an idea, although I'd still have the same problem of working out the load bearing capacity.

The Dexion site says "Load capacities 180kg – 270kg (dependent on shelving size and duty)" but it's not clear if that's per shelf or for a set of them, or how to figure it for my case. And the stuff's not cheap either...

Pumps and the like aren't going to be practical for our setup; raising the butts is the only (simple, at least) way to go for us.

My initial, and still most favoured, idea was simply a stack of breeze blocks at each side and a number (3? 4? 5?) of equally spaced timbers (2x4s or edge?) across the top, but I can't find a load bearing calculator that will tell me how many I'd need of what size for my setup -- at least, not one that I, as a layman in such matters, can understand! (viewtopic.php?p=614315#p614315)

[Crazbe7]

I want to raise our water butts by around 75cms and I'm wondering what folks thoughts are on the best way to build some stands for them.

The biggest will need to be 75cms high some 55-60cms deep, 120-130cms wide, open at least front to back (it'll straddle a 40d x 90w drain) and with no possibility of a central support except at the very front. It'll be for two 250L butts, so 500+Kg.

Happy to hear ideas. Cost is a consideration.

(A little stuck on thinking about timber based stands as I can't seem to find a load bearing calculator anywhere that will tell me if, e.g. 2x4s on edge will do it or if I'd need to get bigger and/or double up and/or ... so if anyone knows where there's one, please link! )

Have you looked at steel workbenches?

You would be wise to have a 'top' fixed to your proposed slat solution to help spread the two point loads.

[Crazbe7]

I want to raise our water butts by around 75cms and I'm wondering what folks thoughts are on the best way to build some stands for them.

The biggest will need to be 75cms high some 55-60cms deep, 120-130cms wide, open at least front to back (it'll straddle a 40d x 90w drain) and with no possibility of a central support except at the very front. It'll be for two 250L butts, so 500+Kg.

Happy to hear ideas. Cost is a consideration.

(A little stuck on thinking about timber based stands as I can't seem to find a load bearing calculator anywhere that will tell me if, e.g. 2x4s on edge will do it or if I'd need to get bigger and/or double up and/or ... so if anyone knows where there's one, please link! )

Try this. It should have all the calculations you need.

https://www.omnicalculator.com/construc ... -beam-span

[jaizan]

Uh? What does the height of the stand got to do with the thickness of the timber to be used, in particular for the horizontal beams? They'll have to support 500Kg across a 120-130cms length irrespective of how high the stand is.

The height has very little to do with the thickness of horizontal beams.

For vertical timbers, the higher the stand, the thicker your timber needs to be, due to buckling. Euler's formula covers that. Although different formulae apply for offset loading.

I have one 62 cm high water butt stand, with 5 columns of 5cm x 5cm section, then a ring of timber around the top, another ring near the bottom and a couple of diagonals. That's for a 200litre container. I would think you want to go up from that, due to extra weight and height. Perhaps approx 10cm x 10 cm section would be nicely over engineered.

I have another one made out of CLS. The biggest issue there is CLS eventually rotting from the bottom.

Despite being an Engineer, I didn't do any design calculations, as my background is mechanical, not civil and I don't know where to get reliable material data for timber.