The Lemon Fool

Just received a letter through the post from 'abrdn'(!). The 'abrdn' Investment Trusts Savings Plans are being shut down. This IT savings plan must be one of the last (or very last?) of these cheap IT savings plans. We won't see their like again.

They are proposing three options:

1. Transfer to ii

2. Transfer to alternative platform

3. Sell

Same here. Have had an ISA/PEP for many years, primarily reinvesting dividends. It was also cheap at £28 a year.

I already have an ISA with ii, but do not want to put all my eggs in one basket. Would AJ Bell be a good alternative - any thoughts out there?

IJ

I believe this is now the last man standing https://www.columbiathreadneedle.co.uk/ ... explained/

IJ49 wrote:Same here. Have had anISA/PEP for many years, primarily reinvesting dividends. It was also cheap at £28 a year.

I already have an ISA with ii, but do not want to put all my eggs in one basket. Would AJ Bell be a good alternative - any thoughts out there?

IJ

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Those wonderful folk at the AIC provide full details on all the platforms re: availability and costs. Not the prettiest table and we will clean it up a bit one day. The information is from a firm called Langcat.

https://www.theaic.co.uk/invest-engage/ ... iled-costs
https://www.theaic.co.uk/invest-engage/ ... t-a-glance

My personal SIPP is with II and my ISA is with AJ Bell and I have had no issues with either. I used AJ Bell as it seemed the cheap and cheerful offering for what I needed it for rather than paying the HL higher fees for what looks like a far better website but not many other benefits that I could see. So, yes I would have no issues in recommending AJ Bell personally.

IJ49 wrote:Same here. Have had anISA/PEP for many years, primarily reinvesting dividends. It was also cheap at £28 a year.

I already have an ISA with ii, but do not want to put all my eggs in one basket. Would AJ Bell be a good alternative - any thoughts out there?

IJ

AJB are fine. I use both II and AJB myself.

IJ49 wrote:I already have an ISA with ii, but do not want to put all my eggs in one basket. Would AJ Bell be a good alternative - any thoughts out there?

IWeb. Cheaper version of Halifax Share Dealing (and run by them) and so also owned by "too big to fail" Lloyds Banking Group. £100 account opening fee but £100 cashback if you transfer in or fund the ISA to £5000 or more in the first six months.

No annual account fees (yes, zero). £5 a trade for everything UK (inc. OEICs/UTs). International trades, should you wish (NYSE, NASDAQ, AMEX, Frankfurt, Milan, Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels), free but 1.5% FX charge. Dividend reinvestment 2% max £5. Free transfers in/out. And although they don't list it as a service, should you for any reason decide to deal over the phone, the charges are still as above.

"Normal" stuff only (regular shares, gilts, ITs, ETFs, OEICs/UTs), no "sophisticated investor" stuff (warrants, anything leveraged, ETPs, etc).

https://www.iweb-sharedealing.co.uk/charges.html

Yes I got the notice of closure letter too. I am minded to go with II as this enables an in specie transfer and potentially keeps my holdings together within the ISA shelter.

In addition to dividend reinvestment I am using the my abrdn plan for this year's modest ISA sub.

As abrdn is currently slimming down its range of ITs. e.g.s: closing Latin American [ALAI] and merging Japan [AJIT] into a non abrdn trust, I have just written to abrdn to ask if and how mergers can/will be managed during the switch to ii. I'll wait and see what abrdn has to say! I I would like the closure of the abrdn plan to give me the opportunity to both diversify and rationalise this portfolio.

Maybe a fool who has experience of running an II ISA can comment on costs etc.

HillManMill wrote:Yes I got the notice of closure letter too. I am minded to go with II as this enables an in specie transfer and potentially keeps my holdings together within the ISA shelter.

You should be able to do that transferring to any provider's ISA, it's the norm. Have abrdn indicated that they would not allow that if you go to anyone else other than ii?

HillManMill wrote:Maybe a fool who has experience of running an II ISA can comment on costs etc.

I have dealing accounts and ISAs with both ii and IWeb, and also a SIPP with the latter.

I'm not sure what there is to be said beyond the charges info at https://www.ii.co.uk/our-charges and https://www.iweb-sharedealing.co.uk/charges.html. You need to compare them in light of your own situation and likely usage.

ii is £9.99pm with trades at £5.99 but one free trade per month and free regular investing and dividend reinvestment at £0.99, whereas IWeb has no standing charges and trades at £5 but no free regular investing and dividend reinvestment at 2% max £5.

So, as ii will cost you £119.88pa before doing any trades and IWeb nothing, that means you could do 24 "normal" trades in a year with IWeb before getting to even ii's standing charge, so in respects of annual fees and normal dealing charges IWeb always works out cheaper. Indeed, if you're a long term holder type and don't trade at all in a year, IWeb is free.

But then there's regular investing and dividend reinvestment to consider, which I'll leave as an exercise for the reader for their particular expected usage pattern. Also, as I noted in my post up-thread, IWeb doesn't do "sophisticated investor" stuff whereas ii does.

Anyway, as abrdn now owns ii it sounds like they're closing the (£28pa) abrdn plans in order to switch folks to the (£119.88pa) ii accounts....

Many Thanks for your reply Mc2Fool there is quite a bit to digest there.

As you say I'll be faced with an increased cost on II.

Reading the abrdn letter more carefully it mentions that other providers may not offer in specie transfers so I reckon that some might - I'll check with iWeb whether I can do in specie for abrdn or II.

Under the transfer deal II are also offering six months with no subscription. Six months from the transfer date of between Oct and Dec '23 takes me through to Mid 2024. Which might allow for the AJIT/NAVF issue to be sorted but the cash distributions from ALAI could well overrun [I haven't seen any information from the liquidators]. I could then migrate away from II later.

Iweb doesn't put any of my likely/expected investments for this portfolio out of bounds. So I'll now do a quick cost comparison for the post no subscription period. I also need to think through how to run the portfolio in the post share plan world.

Finally I do wonder if II will make it easy to get attend the AGMs, this was very easy with the share plan.

Thanks once again.

HillManMill wrote:Reading the abrdn letter more carefully it mentions that other providers may not offer in specie transfers so I reckon that some might - I'll check with iWeb whether I can do in specie for abrdn or II.

I think you'll be pushed to find another ISA provider that won't accept in specie transfers. IWeb certainly do.

HillManMill wrote:Under the transfer deal II are also offering six months with no subscription.

And still with the one free trade a month, or not?

HillManMill wrote:Finally I do wonder if II will make it easy to get attend the AGMs, this was very easy with the share plan.

Both IWeb and II allow you to proxy vote at general meetings or attend them in person.

In II's case you do it online, and they send you a letter of representation in the post if you want to attend in person.

In IWeb's case you have to first call them (once only) and ask to be registered for "shareholder benefits". Thereafter whenever one of your holdings has a general meeting they will send you, in the post, a form with a pre-paid return envelope that lets you proxy vote or request to attend in person, and if the latter they will then send you a letter of representation so you can do so.

My wife has had some abrdn ITs in their savings plan (non-ISA) for some years.

On receiving the news of plan closure she sent off a request for transfer of the holdings out of the scheme to certificated holdings. The cheque was promptly cleared but now, four months later, she is still waiting for the certificates.

They sent several reminders to make an option well after they had taken the certification fee. After making a complaint they have sent letters of apology for their inaction but nothing has happened. They (abrdn/CMS) seem totally incompetent. Is anyone else having the same problem?

Kidman wrote:My wife has had some abrdn ITs in their savings plan (non-ISA) for some years.

On receiving the news of plan closure she sent off a request for transfer of the holdings out of the scheme to certificated holdings. The cheque was promptly cleared but now, four months later, she is still waiting for the certificates.

I sent an email to abdrn a while ago asking how to go about doing the same thing. So far no response.

Kidman wrote:They sent several reminders to make an option well after they had taken the certification fee. After making a complaint they have sent letters of apology for their inaction but nothing has happened. They (abrdn/CMS) seem totally incompetent. Is anyone else having the same problem?

This is all rather worrying, perhaps I need to take a different approach?

The option to withdraw stock from the savings plan into a certificated holding was in the plan Ts & Cs and that gave the fee details.

I think there was a very small reference to it in one of the many letters from the saving plan administrators but they looked like they were trying to 'hide' it. I know that when F&C put charges on their savings plan they were overwhelmed with requests for transfer to certificates but they did manage to get them all out within six weeks from request. We are talking months with abrdn/CMS and no sign of action!

I decided to go with the II [default option] and sent the form off to Abrdn a couple of months back to advise them of my decision.

As the abrdn Share plan closes down in a couple weeks [7th December?] As I had received nothing from ii or Abrdn that confirmed my decision I gave them a ring today.
It seems that they had received my form but that Abrdn do not write to confirm that it has received an instruction. I guess received instructions will be implemented early December So it might be worth others who are also looking for confirmation that their instructions have been received to give Abrdn a call. Enjoy the wait!

I have an ISA with Aberdeen and requested a move to ii. Just received an e-mail from ii confirming that my holdings will bemoved to ii by or on 7th December. It also looks like these will be in a seperate account to my ii ISA, but no additional monthly fee.

Like others I have received nothing from Aberdeen (I refuse to use the ridiculous shortened name) apart from the usual half yearly statement. Perhaps it is regarded as an internal transfer.

IJ

Paradoxically, only since this matter came up, have I really explored the Aberdeen (abrdn) IT online investment site - beyond just looking up my current holding, dividends and reinvestments.

I found their online secure message service and have used that to ask for my shares to be sold and all cash returned to my newly entered bank account. Will see how it goes.

The abrdn online IT investment site is now closed.

This is interesting from abrdn https://scottishfinancialreview.com/202 ... end-funds/

Well I decided to go with the abrdn's default transfer and migrated to ii. My portfolio was uploaded on Sunday. Today I took a tour of my account. I thought I would work out how to trade, I am making some adjustments to my holdings with a view possibly buying some no abrdn ITs. Unfortunately my account does not permit me to sell holdings only buy! Queried this over the phone with ii to be told that my account "hadn't fully settled" following the migration. So I asked when might I have full functionality on my account "dunno guv but I'll find out for you"

So has anyone else experienced this loss of account functionality following the recent transfer from abrdn to ii?

I am still in limbo, having instructed abrdn to sell (rather late in the day), via my then abrdn online IT account. As yet I have heard nothing more.