The Lemon Fool

Jam2Day wrote:
My concern is that RIT along with a growing number of investment houses appear to be wilting under PC pressure and gradually morphing into something that is seen as more acceptable. This concerns me. We don't want to get into the gender thing but it has been my experience that men and women each have their strengths and weaknesses. I suspect most of us are a little more interested in strategy, relative performance, management transparency and the basic ingredient that astute investing requires incisive thinking and nerves of steel. Let's hope Maggie fits the bill.

Nerves of Steel, Incisive Thinking and Astute Investing - With RIT Capital Partners?
Could I remind you that RIT Capital Partners has produced a total return of around 3% over the past 5 years, whereas a global ETF (Vanguard VEVE) has returned around 74%.
(current data from Hargreaves Lansdown)
Surely its a fresh input of intelligence that is required - whatever sex

scotia wrote:

Jam2Day wrote:
My concern is that RIT along with a growing number of investment houses appear to be wilting under PC pressure and gradually morphing into something that is seen as more acceptable. This concerns me. We don't want to get into the gender thing but it has been my experience that men and women each have their strengths and weaknesses. I suspect most of us are a little more interested in strategy, relative performance, management transparency and the basic ingredient that astute investing requires incisive thinking and nerves of steel. Let's hope Maggie fits the bill.

Nerves of Steel, Incisive Thinking and Astute Investing - With RIT Capital Partners?
Could I remind you that RIT Capital Partners has produced a total return of around 3% over the past 5 years, whereas a global ETF (Vanguard VEVE) has returned around 74%.
(current data from Hargreaves Lansdown)
Surely its a fresh input of intelligence that is required - whatever sex

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. However, let's rewind to the starting line of say 10 years ago which I feel is a better measure of performance and what would your view have been then bearing in mind they are very different animals? More to the point, investment strategies move in and out of vogue, the better quality ones to a lesser extent. That is the nature of investing. There is a fundamental difference (quite literally) between the value/unlisted RIT and the momentum/big cap VEVE which really only broke away mid 2022 with a little assistance from the much vaunted Magnificent 7. For the record, I sold RIT a way back when I felt the overall market was just too frothy on the basis of rising/falling tides so nothing especially specific to RIT Per Se. However, I am looking to add when I feel the technicals look right. Now, ask yourself the question, if you had to make a choice today, which would you chose? Be honest now .

Sold when the market was too frothy? That would have been some time ago. Whether we like it or not, RIT has chosen a self managed route since they own their fund manager. That has positives and negatives but the fact is that they appear to have excellent connections and I am confident that they will come good again.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:Sold when the market was too frothy? That would have been some time ago. Whether we like it or not, RIT has chosen a self managed route since they own their fund manager. That has positives and negatives but the fact is that they appear to have excellent connections and I am confident that they will come good again.

Dod

Yes. I misjudged the strength of the market rally in 2021 so I was out too soon and missed the 2021/2022 highs.

Jam2Day wrote:Hindsight is a wonderful thing. However, let's rewind to the starting line of say 10 years ago which I feel is a better measure of performance and what would your view have been then bearing in mind they are very different animals?

OK - VEVE just goes back over 9 years, so I have looked at the total returns over 9 years - data from London Stock Exchange.
RIT Capital Partners (RCP) 54%
Vanguard VEVE 186%
I'm afraid that there has been little evidence of investing skills in RIT over 9 years - not just the past 2 years. You suggest that the difference in the investment areas should be taken into account. Why? The RIT management have a free choice over the whole investment universe, while VEVE is constrained. Presumably the freedom in RIT is to allow superior returns - not duff returns. The substantial increase in the discount over the past two years is particularly worrying - is the quoted NAV secure? I certainly feel that a change in management is due. Maybe a woman will waken up an under-performing investment team.

For the record, I sold RIT a way back when I felt the overall market was just too frothy on the basis of rising/falling tides so nothing especially specific to RIT Per Se. However, I am looking to add when I feel the technicals look right. Now, ask yourself the question, if you had to make a choice today, which would you chose? Be honest now .

Over the past few months I have continued making investments in Vanguard world trackers, and for a bit of froth I have been building my SMT investments - with pleasing results. As an in-between risk I have also made new investments in Scottish American IT. Even at its very sizeable discount I would not be tempted to invest in RIT until I see if the new broom sorts out some of the evident problems.

scotia wrote:

Jam2Day wrote:Hindsight is a wonderful thing. However, let's rewind to the starting line of say 10 years ago which I feel is a better measure of performance and what would your view have been then bearing in mind they are very different animals?

OK - VEVE just goes back over 9 years, so I have looked at the total returns over 9 years - data from London Stock Exchange.
RIT Capital Partners (RCP) 54%
Vanguard VEVE 186%
I'm afraid that there has been little evidence of investing skills in RIT over 9 years - not just the past 2 years. You suggest that the difference in the investment areas should be taken into account. Why? The RIT management have a free choice over the whole investment universe, while VEVE is constrained. Presumably the freedom in RIT is to allow superior returns - not duff returns. The substantial increase in the discount over the past two years is particularly worrying - is the quoted NAV secure? I certainly feel that a change in management is due. Maybe a woman will waken up an under-performing investment team.

For the record, I sold RIT a way back when I felt the overall market was just too frothy on the basis of rising/falling tides so nothing especially specific to RIT Per Se. However, I am looking to add when I feel the technicals look right. Now, ask yourself the question, if you had to make a choice today, which would you chose? Be honest now .

Over the past few months I have continued making investments in Vanguard world trackers, and for a bit of froth I have been building my SMT investments - with pleasing results. As an in-between risk I have also made new investments in Scottish American IT. Even at its very sizeable discount I would not be tempted to invest in RIT until I see if the new broom sorts out some of the evident problems.

Fair enough. As a general rule, I am more inclined towards income/dividend funds which puts RIT in the 'other' box. I like SAIN and SMT appears to be building some momentum. However, I feel some of these big cap US weighted funds are a bit toppy. If the Fed does reduce rates this year it will probably be seen as a green flag to growth stimulation which will include the smaller/medium caps and that will mean a partial exit from the likes of the perceived safe haven of Apple etc. Thanks for your views.

I welcome the appointment of Maggie.
Perhaps the real problem here lies further up the tree?
Jamie Leigh Pemberton, son of ex BoE Govnor ,Robin, became Chairman in 2019.

Swan

Swanmore22 wrote:I welcome the appointment of Maggie.
Perhaps the real problem here lies further up the tree?
Jamie Leigh Pemberton, son of ex BoE Govnor ,Robin, became Chairman in 2019.

Swan

You mean that they may be missing the sage advice of Lord Rothschild?

Dod

To quote II
"City financier Lord Jacob Rothschild has died aged 87.

He was a key to the development of RIT Capital Partners investment trust.

Jacob Rothschild was appointed chair of Rothschild Investment Trust in 1971, which then had £5 million in assets. In the 1980s, he left the family bank, N.M. Rothschild & Sons, to focus on the investment trust, which was renamed RIT.

The trust was built up through a combination of growth and acquisitions, and eventually split to become two entities in 1988: a listed vehicle called RIT Capital Partners and wealth manager St James Place.

From August 1988 to September 2019, when Rothschild was chair of the trust, assets grew from £281 million to £3 billion. To date, the trust’s share price has compounded to date at an annualised rate of 10.7%. It invests in listed equities, as well as private firms and funds run by external managers."

I hadn't realised St James Place had been part of his empire!

His daughter Hannah is a non exec and their family still has over 20%. Perhaps now he is gone they may be developments? The discount is rather high at present apparently due to the widespread concerns about unquoted investments.

scrumpyjack wrote:To quote II
"City financier Lord Jacob Rothschild has died aged 87.

He was a key to the development of RIT Capital Partners investment trust.

Jacob Rothschild was appointed chair of Rothschild Investment Trust in 1971, which then had £5 million in assets. In the 1980s, he left the family bank, N.M. Rothschild & Sons, to focus on the investment trust, which was renamed RIT.

The trust was built up through a combination of growth and acquisitions, and eventually split to become two entities in 1988: a listed vehicle called RIT Capital Partners and wealth manager St James Place.

From August 1988 to September 2019, when Rothschild was chair of the trust, assets grew from £281 million to £3 billion. To date, the trust’s share price has compounded to date at an annualised rate of 10.7%. It invests in listed equities, as well as private firms and funds run by external managers."

I hadn't realised St James Place had been part of his empire!

His daughter Hannah is a non exec and their family still has over 20%. Perhaps now he is gone they may be developments? The discount is rather high at present apparently due to the widespread concerns about unquoted investments.

I am really sorry to hear that Lord Rothschild has died. He was very much of the old school and I have done very well from RIT. Be interesting to see if the current management have felt inhibited by his influence in the background although I suspect that not much will change.

Dod

This is on a 28% discount - it was on a premium a few years ago. I don't understand this to be honest - markets are mostly at record highs but investors in RIT seem to think the RIT private equity holdings are worthless trash. Wouldn't high markets mean that the NAV of the RIT private equity holdings is at least about right? So doesn't this mean that RIT is heavily undervalued?

Appreciate any thoughts on this

Bear in mind that most ITs are on significant discounts at present, though RCP's is larger than average. eg FCIT is on an 11% discount and I don't think it has much in the way of unquoted investments.

Apart from nervousness at the level and valuation of RCP's unquoted investments there has been criticism that their costs are on the high side.

I am happy to continue to hold and see what happens as the unquoted holdings are eventually realised or their valuation gets more credibility.

I would expect them to go in for buybacks on a larger scale if the level of discount persists.

With automatic re-investing of the dividends Iam quite happy with the current discount, but of course expect it to narrow in coming years.

You were right much more quickly than I expected. No idea what caused the recent rerating

FoolishFilFive wrote:You were right much more quickly than I expected. No idea what caused the recent rerating

Interesting because I bought a slug on April 8th at 1750, for no real reason other than that it looked bombed out and I had new ISA money.

I had not even looked at the price since then and see it is now over 2,000. During a period when markets barely moved.

I attended the RCP AGM today, the board and managers provided good insight into the strategy and answered many questions from the shareholders present. Personally I was reassured and will continue to hold for continued recovery having recently added at around 1750p.