Average speed limit has vastly improved motorway junction

[Satsuma]

My junction of the motorway is currently undergoing some roadworks, resulting in a 50mph average speed limit which starts about a mile before the junction itself, even though it doesn't specifically include the slip road.

Dear god, what a HUGE IMPROVEMENT! Whereas normally you have to have eyes in the back of your head to watch out for any last minute screeching across from lane 3 to offslip (not to mention the HGV drivers having to be on their toes for those last minute cutters-in), it is now a hugely civilised and easy way to exit the M4!

All the traffic seems to be moving at a constant speed, co-incidentally the same as the heavy trucks, so there is no benefit to trying to "get ahead" of anything and all the traffic just filters in nicely. And that is even with the 2 lane slip road currently down to 1.

Having had to do that blasted M4/M25 junction on a relatively quiet weekend morning recently; and STILL found it to be a race to the bottom for some drivers who think the chevrons are their cue to join the off-slip, I am hoping the roadworks near me take even longer now!

Sats

[bungeejumper]

LOL, isn't it wonderful how those hateful speed restrictions can make our lives easier? And doesn't it (sort of) restore your flagging faith in the much-maligned competence of the traffic controllers?

Down here in the south west, we endured 18 months of really horrible disruption while they were putting in the "managed motorway" system on the M4/M5 intersection. (Essentially, variable speed limits with the additional use of the hard shoulder during peak periods - similar to the M6 north of Birmingham.) God, we were so annoyed that we almost hoped the whole scheme would fail and prove conclusively what a bunch of stupid know-nothing wazzocks they all were.

But tadaaaa, it worked, almost from day one. Not even the regular Friday afternoon campervan migration from London down to Cornwall seems to badly clog that M4/M5 junction these days. It's astonishing how much more you can achieve if you can get everyone to slow down by 10-20 mph.

Still, there's always an exception that proves the rule. The last I saw, the 50 mph section on the M1 was entering its ninth year, and still no sign that it was doing anything useful except for annoying the truck drivers.

BJ

[bungeejumper]

Forget it, I managed to correct the original post. Sorry.

BJ

[Satsuma]

Down here in the south west, we endured 18 months of really horrible disruption while they were putting in the "managed motorway" system on the M4/M5 intersection.

The M3 is going to be finished soon. I can't remember what it was like without roadworks on that now
Although am quite looking forward to seeing/driving a smart motorway in an odd way.

[Alaric]

(Essentially, variable speed limits with the additional use of the hard shoulder during peak periods - similar to the M6 north of Birmingham.)

On the M1 south of Sheffield, there's a long stretch where they've made four lanes by removing the hard shoulder and constructing the odd refuge area. I'm not sure what they do if there's an obstruction from a broken down vehicle in the inner lane. Perhaps it's no less safe than a non-motorway dual carriageway.

[bungeejumper]

they've made four lanes by removing the hard shoulder and constructing the odd refuge area. I'm not sure what they do if there's an obstruction from a broken down vehicle in the inner lane.

The official line, I believe, is that the cameras and their ever-watchful operators will flick a switch as soon as they see trouble, and then the overhead gantry warning signs will automatically close the lane and direct traffic back onto the usual three lanes.

Would be a vital safeguard in fog. But maybe they don't allow the use of the hard shoulder at all in foggy conditions?

BJ

[chas49]

The official line, I believe, is that the cameras and their ever-watchful operators will flick a switch as soon as they see trouble, and then the overhead gantry warning signs will automatically close the lane and direct traffic back onto the usual three lanes.

The recent news story about the coach driver who ignored the signs showing Hard shoulder/Lane 1 was not available for use and crashed into a stopped vehicle gives some pause for thought in this respect. AIUI the stopped vehicle probably shouldn't have stopped at it wasn't an emergency and almost certainly could have continued to the next refuge. Nevertheless, the coach shouldn't have been in that lane.

[Slarti]

The official line, I believe, is that the cameras and their ever-watchful operators will flick a switch as soon as they see trouble, and then the overhead gantry warning signs will automatically close the lane and direct traffic back onto the usual three lanes.

The recent news story about the coach driver who ignored the signs showing Hard shoulder/Lane 1 was not available for use and crashed into a stopped vehicle gives some pause for thought in this respect. AIUI the stopped vehicle probably shouldn't have stopped at it wasn't an emergency and almost certainly could have continued to the next refuge. Nevertheless, the coach shouldn't have been in that lane.

Trouble is, at least on the M25, that there may be a red cross on the gantries for some miles before your reach the incident, actually past a junction in one instance. So when the traffic is heavy and you can see a mile or more ahead, there is a great temptation to use that almost empty lane, where people are going faster than you.

Slarti

[Generali]

The official line, I believe, is that the cameras and their ever-watchful operators will flick a switch as soon as they see trouble, and then the overhead gantry warning signs will automatically close the lane and direct traffic back onto the usual three lanes.

The recent news story about the coach driver who ignored the signs showing Hard shoulder/Lane 1 was not available for use and crashed into a stopped vehicle gives some pause for thought in this respect. AIUI the stopped vehicle probably shouldn't have stopped at it wasn't an emergency and almost certainly could have continued to the next refuge. Nevertheless, the coach shouldn't have been in that lane.

Trouble is, at least on the M25, that there may be a red cross on the gantries for some miles before your reach the incident, actually past a junction in one instance. So when the traffic is heavy and you can see a mile or more ahead, there is a great temptation to use that almost empty lane, where people are going faster than you.

Slarti

Isn't that the same for loads of things, red lights where you can see the road is clear, level crossing gates coming down, speed limits even. The roads work because most of us follow the rules by-and-large and those that don't are fined or even prevented from driving.

Presumably this bloke is off to prison:

www.thesun.co.uk/news/2198434/horrifyin ... -being-on/

[chas49]

Isn't that the same for loads of things, red lights where you can see the road is clear, level crossing gates coming down, speed limits even. The roads work because most of us follow the rules by-and-large and those that don't are fined or even prevented from driving.

You're right of course.

I think the issue with these closed lanes is that they can look safe - someone actively deciding to use it probably doesn't even think it's dangerous - whereas I imagine most deliberate red light runners know they are taking some sort of risk?

[Generali]

Isn't that the same for loads of things, red lights where you can see the road is clear, level crossing gates coming down, speed limits even. The roads work because most of us follow the rules by-and-large and those that don't are fined or even prevented from driving.

You're right of course.

I think the issue with these closed lanes is that they can look safe - someone actively deciding to use it probably doesn't even think it's dangerous - whereas I imagine most deliberate red light runners know they are taking some sort of risk?

I agree. I guess someone sees a couple of miles of empty lane and assume that it will continue to be empty.

A friend of mine is in unmanned vehicles and he says that one of the things the human eye-brain is poor at seeing is a stationary car in a place where it should be moving.

I guess the solution is enforcement. Whack a few people with points for being in the closed lane and you'll stop it. If it's being monitored as claimed then that should be simple, right?

[Slarti]

Isn't that the same for loads of things, red lights where you can see the road is clear, level crossing gates coming down, speed limits even. The roads work because most of us follow the rules by-and-large and those that don't are fined or even prevented from driving.

You're right of course.

I think the issue with these closed lanes is that they can look safe - someone actively deciding to use it probably doesn't even think it's dangerous - whereas I imagine most deliberate red light runners know they are taking some sort of risk?

I agree. I guess someone sees a couple of miles of empty lane and assume that it will continue to be empty.

A friend of mine is in unmanned vehicles and he says that one of the things the human eye-brain is poor at seeing is a stationary car in a place where it should be moving.

I guess the solution is enforcement. Whack a few people with points for being in the closed lane and you'll stop it. If it's being monitored as claimed then that should be simple, right?

For those who use the M25 regularly, you know that they close the lanes far too early and so those in a hurry/impatient decide to ignore the red X for a few gantries, where they wouldn't ignore traffic lights, so much.

They don't seem to be enforced at all, or at least I've never heard of anybody being done, probably because the real police are dealing with the incident and the cameras are only approved for speed.

I wish they would enforce as it is annoying to sea people sneaking past when you are obeying the rules and the speed some of the HGVs do it at is bloody frightening.

Slarti

[andyalan10]

For those who use the M25 regularly, you know that they close the lanes far too early and so those in a hurry/impatient decide to ignore the red X for a few gantries, where they wouldn't ignore traffic lights, so much.

Slarti, I couldn't agree more

I wish they would enforce....

NNNOOOOOOOOO!!!

The answer to inappropriate/unnecessary lane closures is not to enforce them, it's to not have them. I was caught for almost an hour at 10pm in roadworks of the sort you describe, 4 lanes down to one for roadworks, 2-3 gantries worth of red crosses being widely ignored so the law abiding motorist moves a car length every few seconds as the red X jumpers sail past. To add insult to injury, just as I reached the pinch point the roadworkers stop all traffic completely for a couple of minutes to move the 20+ roadworks vehicles off the hard shoulder into the roadworks using the one open lane, rather than use the three they've closed, or the hard shoulder.

You can attempt to enforce inappropriate rules as much as you like, the main consequences will be reduced respect for all warning signs/traffic regulations and an increase in points selling, unregistered vehicles and false number plates.

Andy

[Slarti]

I wish they would enforce....

NNNOOOOOOOOO!!!

The answer to inappropriate/unnecessary lane closures is not to enforce them, it's to not have them.

You can attempt to enforce inappropriate rules as much as you like, the main consequences will be reduced respect for all warning signs/traffic regulations and an increase in points selling, unregistered vehicles and false number plates.

Andy

I would agree that it would be better if the lane closures were not so ... err ... enthusiastic, but wishing for that is probably not going to happen, but enforcing those that are in place would reduce the instances of you crawling at 10mph and then having an HGV passing you at 45mph and scaring the whatsits out of you - well me anyway.

Most of the time I can see why the lane closure has been imposed, stranded vehicle or whatever, I just can't see why it is imposed so early.


What is points selling? Can't imagine anybody wanting to buy the points off your licence.

Slarti