Electric cars - BBC

[mc2fool]

Then are they suitable for those who tow caravans - no, but again I cannot see that too many here do that.

Just curious as to why not. I'd have thought with electric motors developing maximum torque at zero RPM they'd be quite suited to towing extra loads, no?

[AF62]

Then are they suitable for those who tow caravans - no, but again I cannot see that too many here do that.

Just curious as to why not. I'd have thought with electric motors developing maximum torque at zero RPM they'd be quite suited to towing extra loads, no?

Range.

The drag of pulling a heavy non-aerodynamic box behind them would kill the range. If you look at purpose designed BEVs the designers go to great lengths to keep the car streamlined, beyond that which the designers of an ICE do - for example look at the wheels / wheel trims on a BEV - they tend to be flat not 'fancy' as they are on most ICE.

That isn't to say that no BEVs can tow, as the Tesla Model X, Audi e-tron, and Mercedes-Benz EQC 400 can, but you would probably be better suited with a powerful diesel car if you were towing.

A test with the Audi e-tron found that the range of the car halved when towing - https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3091 ... ev-towing/

[mc2fool]

Just curious as to why not. I'd have thought with electric motors developing maximum torque at zero RPM they'd be quite suited to towing extra loads, no?

Range.

Ah, ok. Of course an ICE also has increased fuel consumption, and so less range on a tank, when towing, typically 20-30% less it seems, but clearly a 50% drop is a lot more, esp. when the range isn't so great to start with...

[Lootman]

So buy one or don't buy one, but to have the mindset that you will reject something without considering the pros and cons - well that's just not sensible.

Nice of you to allow me a choice. I have chosen after investigation. An EV does not meet any of my needs.

My wife has a hybrid. I can tolerate that.

[redsturgeon]

One of the big current problems is that unless you have a private driveway on which to park your BEV then you either have to run cables across the footpath or charge at a public charging point.

This issue needs to be addressed before BEVs are appropriate for everyone.

[Lootman]

One of the big current problems is that unless you have a private driveway on which to park your BEV then you either have to run cables across the footpath or charge at a public charging point.

This issue needs to be addressed before BEVs are appropriate for everyone.

I had the same thought. Not such a problem for people in the suburbs perhaps but in London most people do not have a garage or even a driveway. They park on the street and not necessarily even close to their house or flat.

[Urbandreamer]

One of the big current problems is that unless you have a private driveway on which to park your BEV then you either have to run cables across the footpath or charge at a public charging point.

This issue needs to be addressed before BEVs are appropriate for everyone.

I think that concept is flawed. A far better argument is that the issue of parking needs addressing before CARS are appropriate for everyone.
I know of any number of local streets that emergency vehicles could not get down because of parked cars. Sure BEV's are inappropriate for those who live there, but ANY car is.

Indeed the council has got so irritated with this that they have decided to double yellow some of these roads.

[Lootman]

. A far better argument is that the issue of parking needs addressing before CARS are appropriate for everyone.
I know of any number of local streets that emergency vehicles could not get down because of parked cars. Sure BEV's are inappropriate for those who live there, but ANY car is.

Indeed the council has got so irritated with this that they have decided to double yellow some of these roads.

Councils do not seem to need much of an excuse to remove on-street parking spaces.

Bike lane, bus lane, loading zone and so on.

Then they wonder why so many people park illegally.

But sure, yeah, there are too many cars and so making them more expensive might help with that problem.

[AF62]

So buy one or don't buy one, but to have the mindset that you will reject something without considering the pros and cons - well that's just not sensible.

Nice of you to allow me a choice. I have chosen after investigation. An EV does not meet any of my needs.

And would you like to give some more details of the results of your investigation and why an EV is not suitable for you, as it would be interesting to know which factors were critical in you reaching that conclusion.

One of the big current problems is that unless you have a private driveway on which to park your BEV then you either have to run cables across the footpath or charge at a public charging point.

This issue needs to be addressed before BEVs are appropriate for everyone.

Charging at home is primarily a cost issue, not a convenience issue - almost everywhere you drive these days and park and leave your car for half an hour or so whilst you will already be doing something else will have a charging point that would deliver the quantity of fuel that most people would need.

And if cost is the issue with home charging being too cheap, then I am sure the government is eyeing up how to solve that and benefit in the process.

[Lootman]

Nice of you to allow me a choice. I have chosen after investigation. An EV does not meet any of my needs.

And would you like to give some more details of the results of your investigation and why an EV is not suitable for you, as it would be interesting to know which factors were critical in you reaching that conclusion.

I already gave my reasons for not wanting one, as have others.

Although one I thought of only the other day, and maybe you can correct me if I am wrong about this, and that is that you cannot push an EV if it stalls. My neighbour has a Tesla. He backed it out of his garage and into the road, where it stalled perpendicular to the road and blocking traffic.

Being a good neighbour I walked over and asked him if he wanted help pushing it out of the way. He declined saying something about it not being possible.

So I left him to it and later it had gone so I guess he found a solution. But that is another thing - I can generally fix basic problems on a car as I used to do most repairs on my older iC vehicles. I would have no idea how to fix an EV in much the same way as I cannot fix a TV or PC. So I would have to pay a specialist to do just about everything on it. And I am guessing that EV specialists and EV garages are not any cheaper than EV vehicles and EV insurance.

[Urbandreamer]

So I left him to it and later it had gone so I guess he found a solution. But that is another thing - I can generally fix basic problems on a car as I used to do most repairs on my older iC vehicles. I would have no idea how to fix an EV in much the same way as I cannot fix a TV or PC. So I would have to pay a specialist to do just about everything on it. And I am guessing that EV specialists and EV garages are not any cheaper than EV vehicles and EV insurance.

Are you interested in doing so? I seldom work on my IC car these days. As for working on an EV, I would be comfortable doing so, though I would advise leaving big jobs to the professionals. Don't go near the power pack or big cables, without training.

Other than standard car consumables, breaks, tyres etc, the major problem likely to occur is common with IC cars, the 12V battery.
On the subject of Tesla, famously one model is so "well" designed that if the 12V battery dies then you have to start disassembling the car to get to it. Of course if it's not dead then it's easy to change!

Seriously not all EV's are Tesla's anymore than all IC cars have hydrodynamic suspension or torque convertors which causes problems with towing. In the case of the Tesla models with the problem the motor is constantly connected to the wheels.

Here is the answer to your question, from a different EV manufacturer.
https://www.peugeot.co.uk/about-us/bran ... owing.html

Similar to a petrol-powered car, an electric vehicle may find itself in need of a tow because of a flat battery or mechanical fault. The good news is that, just like a car powered by a combustion engine, an electric car is capable of being towed.

OH, here is some details about Tesla's and "towing them". It looks like there would have been no problem pushing the car out of the way.
https://motorandwheels.com/can-teslas-be-towed/

[Lootman]

So I left him to it and later it had gone so I guess he found a solution. But that is another thing - I can generally fix basic problems on a car as I used to do most repairs on my older iC vehicles. I would have no idea how to fix an EV in much the same way as I cannot fix a TV or PC. So I would have to pay a specialist to do just about everything on it. And I am guessing that EV specialists and EV garages are not any cheaper than EV vehicles and EV insurance.

Are you interested in doing so? I seldom work on my IC car these days. As for working on an EV, I would be comfortable doing so, though I would advise leaving big jobs to the professionals. Don't go near the power pack or big cables, without training.

To be honest, not really. But at least I understand IC cars and can take a stab at diagnosing a problem like a stall. But anything electrical is just a black box to me.

Of course modern IC cars are difficult to work on these days as well. The culprit is the same thing - too much technology and electronics. Not like my 1958 Morris Minor.

[scrumpyjack]

There are about 20 moving parts in a BEV engine compared with 2,000 in an ICEV

[Lootman]

There are about 20 moving parts in a BEV engine compared with 2,000 in an ICEV

Do you mean 2,000 in an ICE vehicle or in just an IC engine?

Crankshaft, camshaft(s), pistons, valves, valve springs, cambelt or chain, some bearings - I cannot get anywhere close to 2,000 moving parts unless you mean the entire vehicle.

[88V8]

Although one I thought of only the other day, and maybe you can correct me if I am wrong about this, and that is that you cannot push an EV if it stalls.

Some EVs do not have a neutral gear. So they cannot be pushed or towed.

Maybe it's one of those things like the spare tyre that one used to take for granted, but the bean counters have realised that some mugs will not notice if it's missing.

V8

[Urbandreamer]

Although one I thought of only the other day, and maybe you can correct me if I am wrong about this, and that is that you cannot push an EV if it stalls.

Some EVs do not have a neutral gear. So they cannot be pushed or towed.

Maybe it's one of those things like the spare tyre that one used to take for granted, but the bean counters have realised that some mugs will not notice if it's missing.

V8

This is not quite true. They can be pushed with effort. The issue is that the motor rotates with the wheels, so towing the car can cause damage.

BTW, EV's are also unlikely to have a reverse gear. After all what would you use it for? Why not simply run the engine in reverse like a Stanly steamer? Oh, they didn't have a neutral gear either.
http://www.stanleymotorcarriage.com/Gen ... hnical.htm

The engine was mounted to the rear drive axle at a nominal 1.5:1 gear ratio between the crankshaft and the differential gear. Transmissions were not required and hence there was no "neutral" or clutch.

Ps hands up who has had to have a clutch replaced. Guess what, you will never need to if there is not one.

[Lootman]

BTW, EV's are also unlikely to have a reverse gear. After all what would you use it for? Why not simply run the engine in reverse like a Stanly steamer? Oh, they didn't have a neutral gear either.
http://www.stanleymotorcarriage.com/Gen ... hnical.htm

The engine was mounted to the rear drive axle at a nominal 1.5:1 gear ratio between the crankshaft and the differential gear. Transmissions were not required and hence there was no "neutral" or clutch.

Ps hands up who has had to have a clutch replaced. Guess what, you will never need to if there is not one.

Very good. Although it was the transition from reverse to forward that did for my neighbour's Tesla.

By the way, did you know that the autonomous EVs being tested in US cities can be disabled by a traffic cone?

https://slate.com/business/2023/07/auto ... -cpuc.html

[scrumpyjack]

I think the earlier figures I gave were wildly wrong, can't recall where they came from.

Forbes puts the nr of moving parts in the drive train at 20 for an electric car and 2000+ for an ICE. I guess that's counting up all the ball bearings in the gearbox?!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2018/0 ... 2811a6603f

Some interesting figures about battery life etc.

[Lootman]

I think the earlier figures I gave were wildly wrong, can't recall where they came from.

Forbes puts the nr of moving parts in the drive train at 20 for an electric car and 2000+ for an ICE. I guess that's counting up all the ball bearings in the gearbox?!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2018/0 ... 2811a6603f

Some interesting figures about battery life etc.

Yeah, the drive train is another thing as that includes gearbox, propshaft, differential, half-axles, CVs and the rest.

Plus maybe water pump, fans and fanbelt, fuel pumps, ignition systems etc.

I was just thinking about the engine block and head.

But sure EV motive power is much simpler. And that is why high-speed trains are electric and even diesel trains mostly have electric power units.

[mc2fool]

There are about 20 moving parts in a BEV engine compared with 2,000 in an ICEV

Do you mean 2,000 in an ICE vehicle or in just an IC engine?

Crankshaft, camshaft(s), pistons, valves, valve springs, cambelt or chain, some bearings - I cannot get anywhere close to 2,000 moving parts unless you mean the entire vehicle.

Dunno about the numbers, but watch this from around 5m40s for the next minute for replacing an ICE engine + gubbins with electric...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0fzlswg/what-they-really-mean-for-you-series-1-1-electric-cars