Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Would you go driverless?

Passion, instruction, buying, care, maintenance and more, any form of vehicle discussion is welcome here
stooz
Site Admin
Posts: 1448
Joined: November 3rd, 2016, 11:03 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 502 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#21360

Postby stooz » January 8th, 2017, 11:08 pm

The school of triple parked cars won't exist, the Google cars will all park properly.

Fyi the army are already using full autonomous trucks due deliveries in dangerous places you don't want to send drivers, but not actually on roads.
And they are doing a lot with drone style remote control kit.
Usually the army tech is years in advance of public gear. I think 10 years is an over estimation.
Has anyone seen the self balancing motorbike by Honda this week?

Clitheroekid
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2859
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 9:58 pm
Has thanked: 1385 times
Been thanked: 3773 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#21379

Postby Clitheroekid » January 9th, 2017, 12:50 am


swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7962
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 984 times
Been thanked: 3644 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#21437

Postby swill453 » January 9th, 2017, 10:11 am

stooz wrote:I think 10 years is an over estimation.

I don't. I think we're still a huge way from having an autonomous vehicle that could cope with the average British high street.

And the first models will kill people, and be sent back to the drawing board.

Scott.

kiloran
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4093
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:24 am
Has thanked: 3234 times
Been thanked: 2828 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#21449

Postby kiloran » January 9th, 2017, 10:39 am

swill453 wrote:And the first models will kill people, and be sent back to the drawing board.

Scott.

I suspect you are right, though people will conveniently ignore the fact that human-driven cars have been killing people for the past 100 years or more

--kiloran

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7962
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 984 times
Been thanked: 3644 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#21450

Postby swill453 » January 9th, 2017, 10:43 am

kiloran wrote:I suspect you are right, though people will conveniently ignore the fact that human-driven cars have been killing people for the past 100 years or more

Of course. We accept the status quo, but just wait for the "killer robot cars!" headlines in the Daily Mail.

Scott.

Hallucigenia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2622
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 3:03 am
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 1718 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23381

Postby Hallucigenia » January 16th, 2017, 2:36 am

Autonomous cars have already killed people, but they're still going ahead - given that 94% of accidents involve human error the computers have got some scope before they're as bad as human drivers. Google's main problem is that their cars tend to be quite cautious, so most of the accidents so far have been human drivers going into the back of them.

Get it right though and there's lots of advantages - going to the pub is obviously a big one, also driving when sleepy/ill/under the influence of prescription drugs but it has big implications for the elderly as well as children. There's also the potential for reducing traffic jams by better driving that absorbs the pulses of braking.

The purchase model is an interesting one, I think the world is moving towards more hiring and less purchase in general, and the boundaries are going to blur between taxis and car ownership, particularly in cities where parking is limited. Another factor is that autonomy works nicely with electric cars - instead of installing a charger for on-street parking, the car can take itself overnight to say the local supermarket car park and charge itself there.

Slarti
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2941
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:46 pm
Has thanked: 640 times
Been thanked: 496 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23445

Postby Slarti » January 16th, 2017, 11:11 am

Hallucigenia wrote:Autonomous cars have already killed people,


They have? You have a link to the story?


Get it right though and there's lots of advantages - going to the pub is obviously a big one, also driving when sleepy/ill/under the influence of prescription drugs but it has big implications for the elderly as well as children. There's also the potential for reducing traffic jams by better driving that absorbs the pulses of braking.


I was thinking about that the other day. I'd much rather have an autonomous cab than some of the drivers I've suffered out here, who seem to want to be James Hunt. The only downside is cleanliness of the interior. Some passengers are disgusting and that is a part of the cabbies job that needs sorting.

The purchase model is an interesting one, I think the world is moving towards more hiring and less purchase in general


What, the way it did with colour TVs?

For city folk it may well be a better model to have a car turn up only when required, but I can't see it catching on in much of the country where things are just not as close to each other and you'd have to think well ahead to call for the car.

Slarti

Meatyfool
Lemon Slice
Posts: 313
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:43 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23468

Postby Meatyfool » January 16th, 2017, 12:00 pm

Slarti wrote:For city folk it may well be a better model to have a car turn up only when required, but I can't see it catching on in much of the country where things are just not as close to each other and you'd have to think well ahead to call for the car.

Slarti


If, say, there are 3 million cars on the road now, then for 95% of the time they are sitting idle, at home or at work.

If you had 1 million autonomous "hail and ride" vehicles, then there will be one nearby for you to ride in with (say) sub 2 minute response times. That's quicker than having to walk back to a garage/car park to pick your car up!

Don't forget that their will be a database of past "rides" available to data mine. Cars will be available in the area that they will be needed possibly even before they are needed!

Regarding cleanliness of these auto-taxis, I envisage multiple firms offering different products aimed at different wallets. The very poorest will end up using the dirtiest cabs and the wealthiest will use the cleanest (because they get checked over between hires) - all shades inbetween.

With autonomous cars apparently "just around the corner", I hope we don't make the mistake of everyone replacing their normal car with the autonomous one. The USP is that we can drastically reduce the number of cars on the road and all the environmental benefits that come with that.

Meatyfool..

taylor20
Lemon Pip
Posts: 66
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:59 am
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23474

Postby taylor20 » January 16th, 2017, 12:27 pm

Meatyfool wrote:Don't forget that their will be a database of past "rides" available to data mine. Cars will be available in the area that they will be needed possibly even before they are needed!


I can just see it:

Argh, running a bit late this morning...

"Sorry for the delay, the car to take you to your regular check up is at the doctors surgery waiting to take you home..."

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8066
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2847 times
Been thanked: 3939 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23476

Postby bungeejumper » January 16th, 2017, 12:36 pm

If you had 1 million autonomous "hail and ride" vehicles, then there will be one nearby for you to ride in with (say) sub 2 minute response times. That's quicker than having to walk back to a garage/car park to pick your car up!

Yes, that's a familiar argument, and it probably works well enough for those who live in urban locations. Yes, that's where the demand will be, and that's where the cars will be lined up in their serried ranks as they wait for their customers.

I can't see it working for us country bumpkins, though. It would take a quarter of an hour for an autonomous taxi to reach me, and there's no knowing that it would be prepared to bump its way up the muddy track to my house even if it did. Then again, of course, it would need to factor in the cost of the 15 minute drive back to the town-centre car park after it had dropped me off - and I can't see the cab operators being willing to swallow that cost either.

You may well be right in supposing that the cab companies will stratify in terms of the cleanliness/hire cost balance that they charge their clientele. That'll presumably leave us non-urbanites with the muckiest cabs - the ones with the wipe-clean plastic seats and no carpets. And probably the oldest, smelliest and most decrepit cars. Still, maybe that's the price that we country types need to pay for having all that healthful fresh air to breathe? :)

As long as I had the option of whether to run my own car, I reckon I could live with that. But I'm sensing a mood among some of our brethren here that self-driving cars will only really work if driver-driven cars are simultaneously banned. That's going to drive a wedge between town and country that'll take a bit of bridging.

BJ
Last edited by bungeejumper on January 16th, 2017, 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8915
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3668 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23477

Postby redsturgeon » January 16th, 2017, 12:39 pm

Slarti wrote:
Hallucigenia wrote:Autonomous cars have already killed people,


They have? You have a link to the story?

Slarti


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 0f855f246a

John

jfgw
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2540
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:36 pm
Has thanked: 1098 times
Been thanked: 1148 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23479

Postby jfgw » January 16th, 2017, 12:41 pm

Meatyfool wrote:With autonomous cars apparently "just around the corner", I hope we don't make the mistake of everyone replacing their normal car with the autonomous one. The USP is that we can drastically reduce the number of cars on the road and all the environmental benefits that come with that.
Meatyfool..


I fail to see much, if any, environmental benefit. If everyone travels the same distance as they do now, the number of car miles will increase as there will be empty cars driving from one passenger to the next (or to a waiting area). A car sitting on a drive or in a car park has very little impact on the environment. There may be some benefit for those who travel relatively few miles or who get picked up and dropped off by friends or family but, for most of us, I see no advantage.

Julian F. G. W.

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8915
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3668 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23480

Postby redsturgeon » January 16th, 2017, 12:43 pm

Regarding cleaning of autonomous vehicles, this does not seem like a big deal to me.

To get a ride presumably one will need to use some form of i.d. and swipe a credit card or similar. When you get in the car and agree to pay then you will be agreeing that it is in a clean condition and that you will leave it that way. There will be video monitoring of the inside of the car from many angles and at the end of the journey any damage or soiling caused by the hirer will be charged for. Not difficult.

John

Clitheroekid
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2859
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 9:58 pm
Has thanked: 1385 times
Been thanked: 3773 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23488

Postby Clitheroekid » January 16th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Slarti wrote:The only downside is cleanliness of the interior. Some passengers are disgusting and that is a part of the cabbies job that needs sorting.

If they can produce a viable self-driving car I'm sure that enabling it to self-clean between passengers shouldn't be too much of a challenge.

Slarti
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2941
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:46 pm
Has thanked: 640 times
Been thanked: 496 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23526

Postby Slarti » January 16th, 2017, 3:47 pm

Meatyfool wrote:If, say, there are 3 million cars on the road now, then for 95% of the time they are sitting idle, at home or at work.

If you had 1 million autonomous "hail and ride" vehicles, then there will be one nearby for you to ride in with (say) sub 2 minute response times. That's quicker than having to walk back to a garage/car park to pick your car up!


In cities, perhaps, but out here, I very much doubt it and for those people who live in places like Bradwell on Sea, or worse, forget it! It just would not be economically viable for them to be hanging around out there.


Regarding cleanliness of these auto-taxis, I envisage multiple firms offering different products aimed at different wallets. The very poorest will end up using the dirtiest cabs and the wealthiest will use the cleanest (because they get checked over between hires) - all shades inbetween.


You have greater faith in the cleanliness of people than I, having had to clean human waste up in swimming pools and from the floor of the changing room and having had to clean out the inside of my cab after a drunk threw up in it. No matter how skint I was I wouldn't want to get into vehicles in those sort of state.

With autonomous cars apparently "just around the corner", I hope we don't make the mistake of everyone replacing their normal car with the autonomous one. The USP is that we can drastically reduce the number of cars on the road and all the environmental benefits that come with that.


For quite a lot of us, I don't think that there will be autonomous cars apparently "just around the corner" and to continue avoiding living in cities we will have to continue to have our own vehicles. Probably 2nd hand, probably petrol.

Slarti

Slarti
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2941
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:46 pm
Has thanked: 640 times
Been thanked: 496 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23528

Postby Slarti » January 16th, 2017, 3:53 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
Slarti wrote:
Hallucigenia wrote:Autonomous cars have already killed people,


They have? You have a link to the story?

Slarti


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 0f855f246a

John


Despite the way he was treating it, his Tesla was not an autonomous car, but a car with driver assist features that he was abusing.
Tesla do not, as yet, sell an autonomous car.

Slarti

Slarti
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2941
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:46 pm
Has thanked: 640 times
Been thanked: 496 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23529

Postby Slarti » January 16th, 2017, 4:04 pm

redsturgeon wrote:Regarding cleaning of autonomous vehicles, this does not seem like a big deal to me.

To get a ride presumably one will need to use some form of i.d. and swipe a credit card or similar. When you get in the car and agree to pay then you will be agreeing that it is in a clean condition and that you will leave it that way. There will be video monitoring of the inside of the car from many angles and at the end of the journey any damage or soiling caused by the hirer will be charged for. Not difficult.

John


When I were a lad, we had this strange concept called privacy.


Or will there develop a market in camera jammers?

Slarti

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8066
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2847 times
Been thanked: 3939 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23535

Postby bungeejumper » January 16th, 2017, 4:14 pm

jfgw wrote:A car sitting on a drive or in a car park has very little impact on the environment. There may be some benefit for those who travel relatively few miles or who get picked up and dropped off by friends or family but, for most of us, I see no advantage.

I'm with you, bro, but just for the sake of a good fight I'll play devil's advocate. One of the environmental arguments is that a car uses more resources and creates more havoc during its manufacture and eventual demolition than during the rest of its life put together. I forget the exact figures, but we're talking tens of thousands of litres of water, vast amounts of energy, plus the steel of course, and all the associated greenhouse gases etc associated with all of these activities.

So the fewer cars that get made in the first place, the better. This is the sort of guff that sounds better in a Green Party manifesto than it does in real life. If you tell an environmentalist that it's a £45 return taxi ride to your nearest railway station, and that no bus service is interested in serving your rural part of the world, they're likely to tell you that it's your fault for living where you do.

Same would go for the crap availability (and presumed high expense) of autonomous taxis in rural areas. I can't see that some of us have any practical alternative to owning our own cars, frankly. For the time being, at least.

BJ

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8915
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3668 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23542

Postby redsturgeon » January 16th, 2017, 4:29 pm

When I were a lad, we had this strange concept called privacy.


Or will there develop a market in camera jammers?

Slarti


But you are not a lad any more Slarti, and the population at large has already given up on privacy.

In fact thinking about it constant video would not be necessary, just a date and time stamped before and after photo of the car interior...you not included.

John

jfgw
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2540
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:36 pm
Has thanked: 1098 times
Been thanked: 1148 times

Re: Would you go driverless?

#23569

Postby jfgw » January 16th, 2017, 5:50 pm

bungeejumper wrote:
jfgw wrote:A car sitting on a drive or in a car park has very little impact on the environment. There may be some benefit for those who travel relatively few miles or who get picked up and dropped off by friends or family but, for most of us, I see no advantage.

I'm with you, bro, but just for the sake of a good fight I'll play devil's advocate. One of the environmental arguments is that a car uses more resources and creates more havoc during its manufacture and eventual demolition than during the rest of its life put together. ...

So the fewer cars that get made in the first place, the better. ...
BJ


If cars are scrapped due to deterioration over time (not mileage related), I can see a valid argument. If there are one-third as many cars but they get replaced three times as often (or four times as often due to the "empty" milage), I do not see a valid argument.

Julian F. G. W.


Return to “Cars, Driving, Motorbikes or any Transport”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests