Traffic Accident.

[swill453]

I think you are falling into the trap of supposing that because two lanes go into the roundabout, and two exit opposite, that effectively the roundabout doesn't exist and can be ignored.

No, I'm not.

The lady driver (being in the left hand lane on the roundabout) can either exit left or carry on around the roundabout - either way she doesn't have to change or cross another lane, so she has a free choice of direction and has the right of way.

That's wrong, in general. In fact by saying so it's you who are implying the roundabout doesn't exist and she's just a road user in a lane of a carriageway.

Being in the left lane she can turn left or go straight ahead. To continue further than 180 degrees is incorrect, unless of course lane markings or road signs indicate otherwise.

Scott.

[Nimrod103]

I think you are falling into the trap of supposing that because two lanes go into the roundabout, and two exit opposite, that effectively the roundabout doesn't exist and can be ignored.

No, I'm not.

The lady driver (being in the left hand lane on the roundabout) can either exit left or carry on around the roundabout - either way she doesn't have to change or cross another lane, so she has a free choice of direction and has the right of way.

That's wrong, in general. In fact by saying so it's you who are implying the roundabout doesn't exist and she's just a road user in a lane of a carriageway.

Being in the left lane she can turn left or go straight ahead. To continue further than 180 degrees is incorrect, unless of course lane markings or road signs indicate otherwise.

Scott.

I guess the judge saw it much the same way as I did.

[swill453]

I guess the judge saw it much the same way as I did.

Well since anyone who did so would come into conflict with most other roundabout users acting correctly, it's a daft notion.

Scott.

[JustLetOneOff]

I will try and find out more precise details when I can. My friend is away for a few days. I'm not sure whether she hit the side of his car or whether he hit the side of her car. He did say that they were both entering the roundabout at the same time so he wasn't really overtaking just parallel to each other and at the same speed.

Is it possible to get transcripts of what exactly was said in court? I'm guessing that only applies to more important cases or different types of court?

[jfgw]

I guess the judge saw it much the same way as I did.

Well since anyone who did so would come into conflict with most other roundabout users acting correctly, it's a daft notion.

Scott.

Conflict occurs anyway. If you look at the pretty picture here (top picture), https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway ... 03#rule185 , if the white car goes straight ahead, there will be a conflict between that and the green car.

From rule 186 of the Highway Code (regarding turning right),

keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout [My emphasis]

Ibid.

If you change lanes, you should give way.

Julian F. G. W.

[sg31]

If the island had road markings designating lanes the driver on the inside of the roundabout must change lanes to exit the roundabout. When changing lanes you must check it is safe to do so. If there is a car in the other lane it isn't safe irrespective of signals.

If the island has no road markings imagine them and proceed as if they exist.

[GrandOiseau]

~25 years ago I had the same incident. Significant detail perhaps is they hit me on the rear left corner, so clearly I was just ahead and the other car hit me, rather than me turning into them. It was originally deemed 50/50. I had legal cover and asked them to fight it. Initially they didn't want to but I persevered. I had a meeting with a lawyer and then they took it to court. Before it got to caught the other party offered 100% of the value of the written off value of my car but no other compo. That was fine for me because it also meant I retained my no claims bonus which as a young driver was financially far more significant than a bit of money for inconvenience, etc. which was minimal anyway. It took a long time to get there, well over a year.

For me you can not turn right from the inside lane unless road markings clearly indicate otherwise. It's just a complete no no and very dangerous. I live in the city of roundabouts!

GO

[taylor20]

About 7 years ago my wife had the same accident going straight across the roundabout starting and ending in the right hand lane of a two lane carriageway, they put the other driver 100% at fault.

However the other driver did hit the side of our car, and they were Portuguese. I suspect any accident that occurs in a foreign country the insurer doesn't even bother to read the incident details.

[Satsuma]

I use a similar roundabout fairly regularly (used to be daily): https://goo.gl/maps/MJdpMdTAVA12

I almost always approach this in the RH lane to go straight over (as do the numerous Waitrose HGVs heading off from the depot in this direction).
This may be slightly different because the exit almost immediately splits to go up to/under the flyover, but the point remains the same - people approaching the r'bout in RH lane and potentially being cut up by travellers in the LH lane.

Sats

[k333]

I use a similar roundabout fairly regularly (used to be daily): https://goo.gl/maps/MJdpMdTAVA12

I almost always approach this in the RH lane to go straight over (as do the numerous Waitrose HGVs heading off from the depot in this direction).
This may be slightly different because the exit almost immediately splits to go up to/under the flyover, but the point remains the same - people approaching the r'bout in RH lane and potentially being cut up by travellers in the LH lane.

Sats

Ah Doncastle Road with ICL's BRA02 building on the left!
But I don't really get the point here. The road markings are clear: left hand lane for left into Bracknell, and right hand lane for second left down Mill Lane towards various Bracknell estates like GH or Hanworth, or right towards Crowthorne. Any accidents and there would be clear blame, unlike the OP's scenario where it's a little tricky. By default though, I reckon it's normally safer to choose the left lane for straight on. Much more in control of the situation by being able to spot cars in the driver's mirror (not the passenger's) and get out of their way at the first sign of trouble.

- K

[Satsuma]

That's the one k333. I see your point, but what about the roundabout before this one (the Fujitsu one). That has similar 2 lane entry and exit but no lane markings on the exit lanes - in fact maybe I should have used that example before!

(thought of this thread going through 2 other r'bouts earlier - both the stereotypical clock face, with exits at 12/3/6/9 o'clock. First one, guy in front of me signalled left, but went straight on. Then went in right hand lane at next one and turned left! I was in left lane so lucky not to collide, but glanced over to see him with a mobile phone resting on top of steering wheel.)

[moorfield]

The judge ruled completely in favour of the lady and said that Peter was 100% at fault. He said that the lady was perfectly entitled to drive around the roundabout in the left hand lane all day long with no signal.

I'd be inclined to agree with that, although I think your friend was likely just unlucky rather than at fault or driving irresponsibly. IMO the onus falls on him being the driver in that lane to be checking over his left shoulder he can exit the roundabout safely regardless of lane markings, and if not then just loop around again. There's a roundabout very like this near me and experience tells me to anticipate this, fortunately never had a prang like that yet.

[k333]

That's the one k333. I see your point, but what about the roundabout before this one (the Fujitsu one). That has similar 2 lane entry and exit but no lane markings on the exit lanes - in fact maybe I should have used that example before!

(thought of this thread going through 2 other r'bouts earlier - both the stereotypical clock face, with exits at 12/3/6/9 o'clock. First one, guy in front of me signalled left, but went straight on. Then went in right hand lane at next one and turned left! I was in left lane so lucky not to collide, but glanced over to see him with a mobile phone resting on top of steering wheel.)

Yes it pays to be wary on roundabouts where cars get close together. Most of the time, other traffic behaves as expected, but now and again things like this happen and it can only take one accident to blot the driving record.

But on the Fujitsu roundabout things are straightforward because it is a large roundabout where traffic goes at a decent speed and there isn't usually any sort of bunching because there isn't normally a lot of traffic on it anyway. The entries from Lovelace Road and Peacock Lane both split into two lanes just before the roundabout, and I would always take the left hand lane when going straight on because there isn't a lot that can go wrong, apart from someone going straight on from the right hand lane at the same time, but that should be easy to spot.

Incidentally if you start at your original location and turn right at the roundabout (on Streetview) and then go up the hill towards Fujitsu, it starts at 2016, then changes to 2012, and then keeps changing between 2014 2015 and 2016. So there are four different years in only a few hundred yards. It's completely beyond me why they would do this!

-K

[TopOnePercent]

While my initial reaction is to say the judge and the lady were in the wrong, it could be argued that your friend was attempting a somewhat risky overtaking manoeuvre on the roundabout (never a good place) and should have been more careful in completing said manoeuvre relative to surrounding traffic.

There's nothing in the OP to say he was overtaking i.e. passing the other car on the roundabout. As far as we know they were simply using different lanes. Any passing could have been safely done before or after the roundabout.

Scott.

I think you are falling into the trap of supposing that because two lanes go into the roundabout, and two exit opposite, that effectively the roundabout doesn't exist and can be ignored. But the roundabout clearly has two concentric lanes of its own (though they may not be marked out as such - it was wide enough for the two cars to proceed roughly in parallel until they collided). For the friend to travel from the right hand concentric lane to his exit, he has to cross the left hand lane, concurrently occupied by the lady driver. The lady driver (being in the left hand lane on the roundabout) can either exit left or carry on around the roundabout - either way she doesn't have to change or cross another lane, so she has a free choice of direction and has the right of way.

Where I live almost all writing and arrows on lanes have worn away, so I drive with caution everywhere.

The problem with that idea, is it effectively renders the right hand lane functionally inoperative as you must always cross the outer lane to leave the roundabout. Two lanes on with both having markings to go straight ahead, with two lanes off on the other side does indeed mean that both lanes may proceed as though the roundabout does not exist save for giving way to their right.

The lady in this case has changed indicated direction (no signal indicates straight on), neglected to use mirrors and signal before manoeuvring, and has as a result caused the accident by impeding the lawful use of the roundabout in compliance with the signage in effect at the time. 100% her fault. The idea that she could simply orbit the roundabout in the left lane (at all, but especially while signalling to go straight on by not signalling to go left or right) and expect other drivers to amend their plans and scatter out of her way is ludicrous.

Insurance companies almost always go 50:50 at roundabouts, unless they have clear video evidence to the contrary, precisely because so many people have no idea how to use them correctly, and that includes the judiciary.