Not stopping following accident

[redsturgeon]

My daughter was parked on the side of the road in a designated parking spot. A van parked on the road opposite her. Another van then tried to squeeze by and knock her wing mirror off. The van did not stop but she got the reg number. What should she do now? I'd assume the police will not be interested but is it necessary to report it to them anyway? Can she find out the van's owner/keeper from the DVLA?

TIA

John

[bungeejumper]

I wouldn't think it would be obligatory to report it to the police unless somebody had been injured - clearly not, in this instance. I'm pretty sure they'd fill out a form if you did, just in case the van was already known for other offences. The driver would have heard the clonk of a mirror getting smashed, although he'd probably try to deny it. Would the DVLA help track him down? Sceptical me says no, but others may know better.

Commiserations - is this the daughter who's just graduated to her second car? Must be very frustrating/upsetting. If I had a worry, it would be that once the police and/or DVLA got involved the insurance company would then get to hear about it, and then a marker might perhaps go up on your daughter's record, even if she was carrying the cost of the repair herself. I think you may be better advised to sort it yourself.

So how bad's the damage? If it's just the shell(s) and the mirror glass, it needn't cost you the full £400 that a dealer might charge you. I replaced all these on the wife's Golf for less than £40, but I had to spray it myself. Not hard if you're a bit practical.

BJ

[Lootman]

I wouldn't think it would be obligatory to report it to the police unless somebody had been injured - clearly not, in this instance. I'm pretty sure they'd fill out a form if you did, just in case the van was already known for other offences. The driver would have heard the clonk of a mirror getting smashed, although he'd probably try to deny it. Would the DVLA help track him down? Sceptical me says no, but others may know better.

I was on the other side of such a situation once. I ran into the back of another car. We both got out, had a chat, and wrote down each other's number plate. We were about to share insurance information when he said something that I wasn't comfortable with. So I drove off.

I did not consider that I broke any law since, as you note, there is only an obligation to involve the police if there is an injury. Otherwise it's just a civil thing and I made the decision that I'd prefer to deal with that at a place and time of my choosing.

Anyway, nobody ever contacted me, even though I clearly could have been traced from my number plate. I assumed either that the other party decided not to bother (damage was minimal) or that he tried but DVLA would not give him my details. DVLA would co-operate with a request from the police, an insurance company or a lawyer, I'd think.

[stooz]

If she plans to claim off insurance, she will need the police record number

[redsturgeon]

Since my daughter has returned home, I have managed to piece the wing mirror back together so no harm done. Howevert seems wrong that someone can do damage to another person's car then drive off and not commit an offence. Then if the person whose car has been damaged tries to find the culprit they can end up penalised by their own insurers as a higher risk driver...wrong wrong wrong.

John

[bungeejumper]

Howevert seems wrong that someone can do damage to another person's car then drive off and not commit an offence.

True, but we'd need a lot more policemen if we were to extend that principle to its logical extent. Would we start prosecuting for trolley scrapes in supermarket car parks? For drivers who spin their wheels on gravel and pepper our paintwork? For the anonymous clown who cracked and damaged my bumper and didn't leave a note on the windscreen? (But was almost certainly on the CCTV, if I'd thought to go looking for it.)

It would properly be a police matter if it were a deliberate act, such as vandalism or road rage. My near-neighbour's son got done for reverse-ramming a car whose driver had been bugging him at the traffic lights, but even he only got a caution and a compensation order. Well short of the dangerous driving conviction that his victim thought he deserved. Police seemed to be too busy.

Glad you got the mirror sorted, anyway.

BJ

[didds]

My 2p... starting with I am sorry to hear your daughter has been faced with this.

* AIUI in theory and generally speaking (specific T&Cs to be cheked) your daughter should be informing her insurers that her vehicle was involved in an accident even if reasonable and relatively trivial.

* in practice for obvious reasons people generally don't

* you can request details of a vehicle's registered keeper if you have reasonable cause
https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla

* the registered keeper was not necessarily driver that caused the wing mirror breakage. Even when they were, if you get my drift.

* if your daughter could ascertain who the driver was without any evidence any claim would unfortunately be meaningless. All the driver need say is "not me guvnor" and then its her word against his.

* similar happened to my wife a few months ago other than she and lorry were moving, and she stopped because she could see it was narrow. Lorry kept coming, took out her wing mirror. Lorry driver stopped and said "you were going too fast". Of course had she bothered to use the dashcam I'd provided her with a year earlier she would have had the evidence she needed. But she doesn't so she didn't



didds

[Lootman]

However it seems wrong that someone can do damage to another person's car then drive off and not commit an offence.

That's the case in the US. If you have any kind of traffic accident there, the law requires you to remain at the scene, even if nobody is injured, And it's taken seriously - you can be charged with "felony hit and run" which typically carries a 1 to 4 year prison sentence, although usually for more serious cases.

There have to be exceptions to that though. You don't have to stop if it is unsafe to do so. And if you hit a parked car you don't have to wait around for hours for the driver to show up - just leave a note with contact information.

But in the UK it's my understanding that you can legally leave the scene of an accident if there is no injury. Rather inconsiderate though.

[swill453]

But in the UK it's my understanding that you can legally leave the scene of an accident if there is no injury. Rather inconsiderate though.

Not really.

On the AA page http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/legal-advice/at-the-accident.html, which I've no reason to doubt, they say:

"If, as a driver, you are involved in a road-traffic accident and one or more of the following occurs:
...
damage is caused to another vehicle or to someone else's property
...
You must:
- stop and remain at the scene for a reasonable period
- give your vehicle registration number, your name and address, and that of the vehicle owner (if different), to anyone with reasonable grounds for asking for those details

If you do not exchange those details at the scene, you must report the accident at a police station or to a police constable as soon as you can, and in any case within 24 hours.
...
Note: Reporting the accident to the police by telephone is not sufficient and you cannot ask someone else to report for you."

Scott.

[PinkDalek]

... But in the UK it's my understanding that you can legally leave the scene of an accident if there is no injury. ...

That's what I thought but http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Co ... 0005513174 at first reading seems to suggest an accident should be reported, even if no-one is injured.

Extract - my bold:

Road traffic collisions

Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 requires drivers/ riders to report to a police officer or police station that they have been involved in an accident involving in any of the following;

any personal injury

damage only, where the other driver/ rider did not stop

damage only, where names and addresses were not exchanged with the other driver/ rider/ cyclist and any other owner of property damaged (even if the other driver stopped)

I haven't looked for the forms mentioned nor studied further but looking at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170 it seems the obligation is on the van driver to report (rather than the daughter) ...

[Lootman]

... But in the UK it's my understanding that you can legally leave the scene of an accident if there is no injury. ...

That's what I thought but http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Co ... 0005513174 at first reading seems to suggest an accident should be reported, even if no-one is injured.

I haven't looked for the forms mentioned nor studied further but looking at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170 it seems the obligation is on the van driver to report (rather than the daughter) ...

That's interesting. The incident I referred to earlier where I left the scene was in fact a year or two before 1988, and I definitely believed at the time that my actions were legal.

I'm a little surprised by this because a non-injury accident is essentially a civil matter between the drivers of the two vehicles, and it's not clear to me why the police would get involved unless they were summoned to the scene or happened to stumble across it.

The other thought I have is that I'd be willing to bet that a good number of the drivers who do leave the scene might have been drinking and don't want to risk a drink-drive conviction. If they deal with it the next day, that risk is gone.

[quelquod]

I'm a little surprised by this because a non-injury accident is essentially a civil matter between the drivers of the two vehicles, and it's not clear to me why the police would get involved unless they were summoned to the scene or happened to stumble across it.
That's essentially the case with the proviso that both leaving the scene of an accident AND not then reporting it is a criminal offence. IME (albeit I don't live in a large busy city if that makes a difference) the police DO follow up such a case with a view to prosecution.

[richlist]

The problem these days is that there would appear to be more people using mobile phones whist driving, driving under the influence of drink or more likely drugs. That's not taking into account the number of vehicles without road tax or MOT.

I'd call the police out in any accident if I thought the other driver was guilty of any of those.

[Lootman]

The problem these days is that there would appear to be more people using mobile phones whist driving, driving under the influence of drink or more likely drugs. That's not taking into account the number of vehicles without road tax or MOT.

I'd call the police out in any accident if I thought the other driver was guilty of any of those.

That's true but, on the other hand, the fact that everyone has mobile phones and cameras cuts both ways. So if you cause an accident, there's a good chance somebody might snap you or your car, thereby identifying you if you then seek to leave the scene. There's also CCTV cameras everywhere.

So yes, there are more reasons now to cause such an accident and perhaps be tempted to leave the scene, and I mentioned the drink issue earlier as well. But there are also more ways that people can get caught doing that.

[DrFfybes]

There's also CCTV cameras everywhere.

Not really there aren't, certainly not outside of London (and perhaps even there) virtually no residential areas are covered, and of the ones that are there, less than 1% can read number plates. The ANPR ones generally only read plates, so can't look for a blue Estate car.

If it is wet or misty the best car for any criminal is a silver hatchback.

Dr'spent far too long with policemen in the office trawling through hours of footage for nothing'F.

[OttoMaddox]

I witnessed a similar incident in a car park and left a note on the victim's windscreen.

Subsequently I was contacted by their insurance company, and then by police to make a statement.

So I guess the conclusion is that if you get your insurance company involved then the police will be involved also. After all, a criminal act has taken place.

[quelquod]

My sister came out a few months ago to find her offside car door damaged. A neighbour had seen a car reverse into it in giving way to a van coming the other way. He 'thought' he recognised the car as a local one which often passed at that time.

The incident was reported to the police who followed it up. They found paint scuffs on the 2 cars matching each other. Not a big deal and not much to go on, but we heard yesterday that the driver of the other car will be in court in a fortnight charged with the aforementioned offence of not reporting an accident. It seems that at least in smaller towns the police DO follow up such incidents.

[didds]

The cynic in me suggests this is an easy "nick" so got processed with little more needed.

BUT - none the less the police here did at least do some basic evidence gathering so kudos to them for doing so.

I'll get me coat

didds

[Gaggsy]

I'm currently going through the process of getting my car fixed after a lorry swiped my parked car damaging 2 doors and the rear panel. I have all his details - driver, owner, insurance company etc. The other driver says it wasn't him.

However, although I didn't see it happen myself, I have an independent witness.

I offered the other party the opportunity to pay for the repairs but he said he was advised by his insurance broker to go through his insurance. The damage wasn't trivial so I had to contact my own insurance company.

On explaining that I had a witness they put me in touch with a company that would arrange the repairs, arrange a replacement car, and claim the costs from the 3rd party. All would be paid for by them in the meantime, including insurance to cover them not being able to fully claim back all the costs. (But that's a topic for another thread I think).

I asked the insurance company if this would count as a claim and would I have to disclose details when next year's renewal comes around. Answer: It wouldn't count as a claim as long as the costs were recovered from the 3rd party. Details are shared by all insurance companies so they would know that you'd been involved in an accident. Would they take this into account on your premium? They may look at where you had the accident and if they considered that this was a recurring problem and you kept having accidents in the same street, then maybe your premium would go up.

[TopOnePercent]

I've had a lot of success when claiming from companies whose drivers have hit my car, by posting details about it on their social media feeds, paying particular attention to describe the proactivity of the company fleet manager, or not. It's happened twice, and both times the resolution was uncannily swift compared to progress prior to the social media expose.

Were I present when someone hit my car, should they attempt to leave before I was happy that they were who they claimed to be, and that I had their correct details, I'd be reporting it as a hit and run, and quite possibly suggesting the driver had been drinking - why else would they scarper?