Speed limit to be lowered to 20mph in Wales

[Alaric]

I love Wales and go there a lot, but this whole mess is seriously putting me off ever venturing there again.

It might not be a showstopper but it could well be a tie-breaker in deciding where to go on a holiday trip. If travelling through Wales, don't a number of routes go through towns and villages and thus 20 mph will add to journey times?

[88V8]

....So now I have to ring the council to find out what speed I should be doing on that stretch of road. Madness.

I hope the govt are keeping Garmin and TomTom up to date with their tomfoolery, given how many people rely on their satnav to warn them of speed limits.

V8

[genou]

I have a completely different take than many on this thread. I spend a deal of time in the Scottish Borders region, which has had 20 limits on built up areas for some time now.
Going from Peebles to Edinburgh will involve 20->40>NSL>40>20 repeatedly ( rather than the old 30->NSL->30>NSL). Elapsed time to get to Edinburgh is near unchanged, because villages are small. 45 minutes to hit the outskirts, and 15 to 30 to get to the centre, as it always was.

My experience of being in a 20 zone is Peebles. It is immeasurably more civilized if you are a pedestrian. Mostly crossing lights are irrelevant, as there is time to cross without them. I assume in the villages that never qualified for pedestrian crossing lights that the effect is even more pronounced.

I'd guess the vast bulk of traffic is doing a little more than 20, but say 23-24. There is the odd numpty. I don't use the local buses, but I have not heard complaints.

[servodude]

I have a completely different take than many on this thread. I spend a deal of time in the Scottish Borders region, which has had 20 limits on built up areas for some time now.
Going from Peebles to Edinburgh will involve 20->40>NSL>40>20 repeatedly ( rather than the old 30->NSL->30>NSL). Elapsed time to get to Edinburgh is near unchanged, because villages are small. 45 minutes to hit the outskirts, and 15 to 30 to get to the centre, as it always was.

My experience of being in a 20 zone is Peebles. It is immeasurably more civilized if you are a pedestrian. Mostly crossing lights are irrelevant, as there is time to cross without them. I assume in the villages that never qualified for pedestrian crossing lights that the effect is even more pronounced.

I'd guess the vast bulk of traffic is doing a little more than 20, but say 23-24. There is the odd numpty. I don't use the local buses, but I have not heard complaints.

Stop making sense!
The self selected talking heads round these parts won't care anyway
- I have a strong suspicion it's not actually about changing the speed limit in short sections in built up areas in a region that they might someday visit... cos they're not really that mental.... it's just this week's shibboleth

Just wait until they change the speed limit for NHS workers in small boats

[airbus330]

Stop making sense!
The self selected talking heads round these parts won't care anyway
- I have a strong suspicion it's not actually about changing the speed limit in short sections in built up areas in a region that they might someday visit... cos they're not really that mental.... it's just this week's shibboleth

Just wait until they change the speed limit for NHS workers in small boats

Certainly out of sync with the opinion of 360000 people.https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548

Funny how that sounds just like a comment from Sky News

[mike]

Certainly out of sync with the opinion of 360000 people.https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548

Pretty sure those 360,000 don't all live in Wales

I wonder why Google searches for "Welsh postcodes" have exploded in number since Sunday?

https://nitter.d420.de/cwlcymro/status/1704911326047248670#m


Note: Nitter in the above link is the Firefox extension I use to circumvent the 'ban' on reading Twitter as I do not and will not have a Twitter account.

[Nimrod103]

Certainly out of sync with the opinion of 360000 people.https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/245548

Pretty sure those 360,000 don't all live in Wales

I wonder why Google searches for "Welsh postcodes" have exploded in number since Sunday?

https://nitter.d420.de/cwlcymro/status/1704911326047248670#m


Note: Nitter in the above link is the Firefox extension I use to circumvent the 'ban' on reading Twitter as I do not and will not have a Twitter account.

Last time I looked, you didn’t have to live in Wales to be able to travel into or through Wales, and therefore have a view on this policy.

[Dod101]

I have a completely different take than many on this thread. I spend a deal of time in the Scottish Borders region, which has had 20 limits on built up areas for some time now.
Going from Peebles to Edinburgh will involve 20->40>NSL>40>20 repeatedly ( rather than the old 30->NSL->30>NSL). Elapsed time to get to Edinburgh is near unchanged, because villages are small. 45 minutes to hit the outskirts, and 15 to 30 to get to the centre, as it always was.

My experience of being in a 20 zone is Peebles. It is immeasurably more civilized if you are a pedestrian. Mostly crossing lights are irrelevant, as there is time to cross without them. I assume in the villages that never qualified for pedestrian crossing lights that the effect is even more pronounced.

I'd guess the vast bulk of traffic is doing a little more than 20, but say 23-24. There is the odd numpty. I don't use the local buses, but I have not heard complaints.

I have a friend who lives right down on the Scottish side of the Border near to Berwick on Tweed. It drives him round the bend and I can see why. Obviously in a busy place like Peebles it makes sense to have a 20 mph limit, just as it does in our High Street (although few people pay any attention to it) but when you are driving through a hamlet of a few people and a totally empty road it makes no sense. A blanket change from 30 mph to one of 20 mph makes it easy for admin but is completely unrealistic and the problem is that because 20 mph is ridiculous in some villages it tends to be treated with contempt everywhere.

To be parochial about it, Peebles is a small busy town rather than a village of the sort where the controversy lies anyway.

Dod

[Lootman]

Pretty sure those 360,000 don't all live in Wales

Last time I looked, you didn’t have to live in Wales to be able to travel into or through Wales, and therefore have a view on this policy.

And even those who will never go to Wales are still entitled to a view on this or any other matter. There is a good chance this could spread if it is not resisted.

First they came for the Welsh, and I said nothing . .

[didds]

So now I have to ring the council to find out what speed I should be doing on that stretch of road. Madness.

Or you just do 20mph and CYA.

Unless there is also a minimum sped limit sign of 25

[didds]

don't a number of routes go through towns and villages and thus 20 mph will add to journey times?

I'm more amazed there are towns anywhere where you can actually get above 20mph unless passing through at 2am! And villages that are so huge that a differential of 20mph would make any significant time difference.

Central/west Wiltshire currently would be a godsend to reach those giddy heights.

[didds]

when you are driving through a hamlet of a few people and a totally empty road it makes no sense.

Dod

If the hamlet was 0.5 miles long, that's the difference between 1 minutes and 1.5 minutes to pass through it.

As the infamous Irishman said... What are you going to be doing with those saved 30 seconds if the 30mph limit was retained?

[didds]

[when you are driving through a hamlet of a few people and a totally empty road it makes no sense

Dod

maybe the speed limit in these circumstances should be NSL - the road is empty after all. 60mph seems reasonable then.

[Lootman]

when you are driving through a hamlet of a few people and a totally empty road it makes no sense.

If the hamlet was 0.5 miles long, that's the difference between 1 minutes and 1.5 minutes to pass through it.

As the infamous Irishman said... What are you going to be doing with those saved 30 seconds if the 30mph limit was retained?

By that argument why not make it 15 mph? 10 mph?

And if it really makes such a small difference then why implement it at all?

[DrFfybes]

I love Wales and go there a lot, but this whole mess is seriously putting me off ever venturing there again.

It might not be a showstopper but it could well be a tie-breaker in deciding where to go on a holiday trip. If travelling through Wales, don't a number of routes go through towns and villages and thus 20 mph will add to journey times?

I have a completely different take than many on this thread. I spend a deal of time in the Scottish Borders region, which has had 20 limits on built up areas for some time now.
Going from Peebles to Edinburgh will involve 20->40>NSL>40>20 repeatedly ( rather than the old 30->NSL->30>NSL). Elapsed time to get to Edinburgh is near unchanged, because villages are small. 45 minutes to hit the outskirts, and 15 to 30 to get to the centre, as it always was.

It will make little difference to holiday traffic journeys. I went from Shropshire to Barmouth 2 weeks ago - managed a 32mph average on the way there on a Friday afternoon, 39mph on the way back on Sunday morning. It wasn't the 30 limits that slowed things, it was the caravan of mobile homes doing 45mph, or the odd sheep trailer. I was in the Z4M, but even in the relatively light Sunday traffic 'leapfrogging' like I do on the bike became tiresome, as when you got past one slow vehicle you hit another train a couple of miles later.

What the objections should be about is the way it has been implemented. This isn't just something placed on small villages, this is a blanket limit, probably, with little or no signage in may places, and huge amounts of uncertainty. The Llandeilo ringroad is now apparently 20, according to MrsF's sister there were signs at one end yesterday, but not the other, and they think this is now a 20 https://maps.app.goo.gl/BsstyB7rXRtEa9fh6 and the A483 https://maps.app.goo.gl/uEiTEEzaCvQuQrFR7 but they weren't sure nor did they know how to check.

The other concern is that when this is accepted, then the rest of the roads bcome 50, then 40. THEN journey times will be an issue as you won't be allowed to overtake anything, and blue light vehicles will find it a lot harder to make progress.

Paul

[swill453]

And if it really makes such a small difference then why implement it at all?

A small difference in time for the driver, a large difference in the chance of a pedestrian being killed or seriously injured if hit by the vehicle.

Scott.

[Lootman]

And if it really makes such a small difference then why implement it at all?

A small difference in time for the driver, a large difference in the chance of a pedestrian being killed or seriously injured if hit by the vehicle.

Hence the other part of my post that you omitted to requote: So why not 15 mph? That would be even safer for pedestrians, presumably.

[didds]

By that argument why not make it 15 mph? 10 mph?

Absolutely. Fine by me. 10mph is cool.

Then cycling is faster and we can get the carbon based monoliths off the road.

[didds]

And if it really makes such a small difference then why implement it at all?

Cos its not me that is comnpalining that it will make journey times slower

[swill453]

A small difference in time for the driver, a large difference in the chance of a pedestrian being killed or seriously injured if hit by the vehicle.

Hence the other part of my post that you omitted to requote: So why not 15 mph? That would be even safer for pedestrians, presumably.

Compromise, I guess.

Scott.