New features I’d like on cars

[Lootman]

But in any event I have a friend who runs a garage and I feel sure that he knows how to hack the software. That has helped in the past with a couple of MOTs!

I noticed in the details of my last car insurance policy that any tampering with the ‘advance driver aids’ software would invalidate the policy / make you liable for any third party costs they paid, so insurance companies are obviously concerned with people doing that.

No doubt but part of the skill of hacking software is erasing the record of the hack.

Anyway I suspect that the trend towards "nanny cars" will increase the temptation to hack. In my case it was just an emissions thing and not a safety thing.

[AF62]

No doubt but part of the skill of hacking software is erasing the record of the hack

Hell of a gamble. Was the bloke down the pub I paid £50 to hack my car skilful or will I end up tens of thousands out of pocket if he wasn’t.

[Lootman]

No doubt but part of the skill of hacking software is erasing the record of the hack

Hell of a gamble. Was the bloke down the pub I paid £50 to hack my car skilful or will I end up tens of thousands out of pocket if he wasn’t.

I was not trying to advise you on what you should do. I was describing what is already an increasing trend. Nanny cars introduce another set of issues.

[AF62]

Nanny cars introduce another set of issues.

Fewer crashes leading to fewer deaths and injuries... that sort of issue?

[Lootman]

Nanny cars introduce another set of issues.

Fewer crashes leading to fewer deaths and injuries... that sort of issue?

You would have to prove that claim. My point was more about some of the downsides.

[AF62]

Fewer crashes leading to fewer deaths and injuries... that sort of issue?

You would have to prove that claim.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-saf ... rch-shows/

"Lane-departure warning systems lower the rates of three types of passenger car crashes—single-vehicle, side-swipes, and head-on—by 11 percent and cut injuries in those same types of crashes by 21 percent, the study found."

My point was more about some of the downsides.

The only downside would seem to be someone invalidating their insurance if they tampered with the system. In use the system is unnoticeable (certainly on my car) provided you actually drive as taught, i.e. mirror, signal, manoeuvre, rather than follow the habit of many on the motorway of treating the use of the indicator as a sign of weakness.

[Lootman]

In use the system is unnoticeable (certainly on my car) provided you actually drive as taught, i.e. mirror, signal, manoeuvre, rather than follow the habit of many on the motorway of treating the use of the indicator as a sign of weakness.

I cannot comment on that. I was merely inviting you to reflect upon the longer-term effects of some of these newer "features" that car sales people love to crow about in the showroom, but that many people actively do not want.

[AF62]

I cannot comment on that. I was merely inviting you to reflect upon the longer-term effects of some of these newer "features" that car sales people love to crow about in the showroom, but that many people actively do not want.

Well the main effect would be safer cars on the road - safer both for those driving them and other road users.

And as for driving them - well I have no issue and find that a car fitted out with all this equipment makes for a more pleasant drive.

Those who actively don’t want such safety equipment usually don’t have any rational reason not to want it other than it interferes with their driving style, which with regard to lane departure warning systems is choosing not to indicate before changing lanes.

Frankly it takes me back to the days of people arguing that they shouldn’t be forced to wear a seatbelt.

[Lootman]

I cannot comment on that. I was merely inviting you to reflect upon the longer-term effects of some of these newer "features" that car sales people love to crow about in the showroom, but that many people actively do not want.

Well the main effect would be safer cars on the road - safer both for those driving them and other road users.

I am not convinced and you can see from the reactions of other Lemons to this "feature" that I am far from alone.

It also assumes that the system is 100% reliable. If it goes wrong then that could be more dangerous. And that is a microcosm of the problems that will happen if self-driving cars become a thing. People will claim that they are "safer" but that is of little consolation if it is you that has the misfortune of experiencing one that goes rogue.

https://venturebeat.com/business/waymos ... -20-month/

[AF62]

Well the main effect would be safer cars on the road - safer both for those driving them and other road users.

I am not convinced and you can see from the reactions of other Lemons to this "feature" that I am far from alone.

I rather suspect the age demographic of this forum has a lot to do with that.

It also assumes that the system is 100% reliable. If it goes wrong then that could be more dangerous.

Sounds like the 'I don't want to wear a seatbelt as I would be thrown to safety' argument from the 1970s.

And that is a microcosm of the problems that will happen if self-driving cars become a thing. People will claim that they are "safer" but that is of little consolation if it is you that has the misfortune of experiencing one that goes rogue.

Now that is an interesting subject.

In 2021 there were 1,558 deaths and 25,892 seriously injured on UK roads. Would the public accept that number be reduced to say 15 deaths and 250 serious injuries with self-driving cars completely replacing driven cars, but those 15 deaths and 250 serious injuries being the result of the self-driving cars failing?

I doubt the public would, and for reasons they would be unable to explain.

[Lootman]

I am not convinced and you can see from the reactions of other Lemons to this "feature" that I am far from alone.

I rather suspect the age demographic of this forum has a lot to do with that.

The TLF demographic skews older, male, more educated, successful and experienced.

And that is a microcosm of the problems that will happen if self-driving cars become a thing. People will claim that they are "safer" but that is of little consolation if it is you that has the misfortune of experiencing one that goes rogue.

Now that is an interesting subject.

In 2021 there were 1,558 deaths and 25,892 seriously injured on UK roads. Would the public accept that number be reduced to say 15 deaths and 250 serious injuries with self-driving cars completely replacing driven cars, but those 15 deaths and 250 serious injuries being the result of the self-driving cars failing?

I doubt the public would, and for reasons they would be unable to explain.

The people whose lives would be saved will not be aware of that. But those killed by rogue self-driving cars will be aware of that. So the PR problem to overcome would be immense.

Same reason why we might one day have self-flying planes but that doesn't mean that people will want to buy tickets for one.

[AF62]

I rather suspect the age demographic of this forum has a lot to do with that.

The TLF demographic skews older, male, more educated, successful and experienced.

And rather set in their ways and not happy dealing with these new fangled things…

The people whose lives would be saved will not be aware of that. But those killed by rogue self-driving cars will be aware of that. So the PR problem to overcome would be immense.

Exactly - people are ‘happy’ to see 1,000 people they don’t know die if it saves one person they know being killed.

Although ironically with the safety systems being implemented on cars it is being driven by that perception of self-preservation, it is actually saving others because of the new Euro NCAP safety rules. If a manufacturer wants a five star rating, which they do because that’s what people want to buy, then NCAP will only award it if the base model car has a minimum (and increasing) level of automatic safety features.

Same reason why we might one day have self-flying planes but that doesn't mean that people will want to buy tickets for one.

Disagree. If you sold tickets for self-flying planes cheaper than piloted planes then you would be beaten down in the rush of people wanting to buy them.

[Lootman]

The TLF demographic skews older, male, more educated, successful and experienced.

And rather set in their ways and not happy dealing with these new fangled things…

I see it more in terms of being a late adopter rather than an early adopter of technology.

I first started noticing people with mobile phones on the streets of London around 1990 although I did not get one until about 2000. Likewise I started noticing smart phones around 2009 but I did not get one until 2019.

I guess I am the same with other gadgets, and a car is just a gadget at the end of the day.