The Lemon Fool

The prices for leasing EVs at the moment seem irresistible.

I can lease a Lexus EV that retails for about £64,000 for under £400 per month (business use so ex VAT)

Obviously I will also benefit from the much lower BIK rate too.

I cannot understand this especially given the adjacent thread on the drop in EV residuals recently.

redsturgeon wrote:The prices for leasing EVs at the moment seem irresistible.

I can lease a Lexus EV that retails for about £64,000 for under £400 per month (business use so ex VAT)

Obviously I will also benefit from the much lower BIK rate too.

I cannot understand this especially given the adjacent thread on the drop in EV residuals recently.

It's because from January this year every manufacturer selling cars here has to sell a minimum of 22% of their total sales as EVs for the year. For every car they miss the target by, there's punitive fines. Hence the irresistible deals on EV leases at the moment.

redsturgeon wrote:I can lease a Lexus EV that retails for about £64,000 for under £400 per month (business use so ex VAT)

Yes, but. Lexus/Toyota are pretty much the last manufacturer out of the gate with a full EV, because they've stuck to their (very good) hybrids up till now. As far as I know, their only UK model is the RZ, which gets (ahem) underwhelming reviews both in the UK and the US. Although it's certainly quite pretty. https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/rz

The claimed 274 mile range seems to shrink to 200 or so when it's on test, and I don't believe it'll plug into a Tesla fast charger. At £60-75K it's going to be a tough sell, and my guess is that this is a holding operation while Toyota come up with something a bit more competitive. OTOH, if it's a leasing bargain, it might still be worth a look?

BJ

In the last year or 2 Toyota have launched the bz4x - about 50ish k I think. I was queueing for a GR86 and they were all over me with the new electric....

https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/bz4x

More recently I believe one of the big global Toyota bosses has reiterated that they don't believe in electric being the [sole] miracle cure that everyone seems to support. They have a nice history in hybrid, and they also have a hydrogen car the Mirai - also about 50 ish k, but with only 14 filling stations in UK, not taken off in UK. Heavily used as cabs in Paris I noticed in October last year.

bungeejumper wrote:

redsturgeon wrote:I can lease a Lexus EV that retails for about £64,000 for under £400 per month (business use so ex VAT)

Yes, but. Lexus/Toyota are pretty much the last manufacturer out of the gate with a full EV, because they've stuck to their (very good) hybrids up till now. As far as I know, their only UK model is the RZ, which gets (ahem) underwhelming reviews both in the UK and the US. Although it's certainly quite pretty. https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/rz

The claimed 274 mile range seems to shrink to 200 or so when it's on test, and I don't believe it'll plug into a Tesla fast charger. At £60-75K it's going to be a tough sell, and my guess is that this is a holding operation while Toyota come up with something a bit more competitive. OTOH, if it's a leasing bargain, it might still be worth a look?

BJ

I am also looking at the NX PHEV at the same sort of leasing price on a £55,000 car! It gets very good reviews.

BigB wrote:In the last year or 2 Toyota have launched the bz4x - about 50ish k I think. I was queueing for a GR86 and they were all over me with the new electric....

https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/bz4x

Yes, I believe the Lexus RZ is the same car as the Toyota BZ - or it's built on the same platform, anyway. But with more luxury and presumably more toys.

One oddity from the AutoExpress review of the RZ is that opting for the 20 inch wheels, rather than the plebby 18 inchers, seems to cut nearly 20% off the range. I can't quite imagine why that should be, unless there's an anomaly in the gearing? Anybody know?

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:

BigB wrote:In the last year or 2 Toyota have launched the bz4x - about 50ish k I think. I was queueing for a GR86 and they were all over me with the new electric....

https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/bz4x

Yes, I believe the Lexus RZ is the same car as the Toyota BZ - or it's built on the same platform, anyway. But with more luxury and presumably more toys.

One oddity from the AutoExpress review of the RZ is that opting for the 20 inch wheels, rather than the plebby 18 inchers, seems to cut nearly 20% off the range. I can't quite imagine why that should be, unless there's an anomaly in the gearing? Anybody know?

BJ

You do know that the size of the wheels IS part of the gearing don't you?

A larger wheel will travel further for the same number of revolutions.
The vehicle will travel faster for the same wheel rpm.

However the torque needed to provide that rpm will be higher.
This means higher currents.
Higher currents mean more energy lost as heat. This is why EV batteries are high voltage. To reduce current and increase range.

Urbandreamer wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:One oddity from the AutoExpress review of the RZ is that opting for the 20 inch wheels, rather than the plebby 18 inchers, seems to cut nearly 20% off the range. I can't quite imagine why that should be, unless there's an anomaly in the gearing? Anybody know?

You do know that the size of the wheels IS part of the gearing don't you?

A larger wheel will travel further for the same number of revolutions.
The vehicle will travel faster for the same wheel rpm.

However the torque needed to provide that rpm will be higher.
This means higher currents.
Higher currents mean more energy lost as heat. This is why EV batteries are high voltage. To reduce current and increase range.

LOL, thanks, I'd figured all that - well, right up to the last part. (I can only plead that I was excluded from physics at school, after a minor mishap with a lead-acid battery. It was my mate's fault, honestly. )

Hence my puzzlement. Much appreciated.

BJ

On thing to bear in mind is that the 20 inch wheels will have lower profile tyres leading to perhaps to the same overall diameter as the 18 inch with the higher profile.

Perhaps its my age but am I the only one here who would always go for 18 inch wheel over 20 inch, much more comfortable ride on today's potholes roads and I don't really care if the 20 inch "look" better.

redsturgeon wrote:On thing to bear in mind is that the 20 inch wheels will have lower profile tyres leading to perhaps to the same overall diameter as the 18 inch with the higher profile.

Perhaps its my age but am I the only one here who would always go for 18 inch wheel over 20 inch, much more comfortable ride on today's potholes roads and I don't really care if the 20 inch "look" better.

Me too. In fact if I could, I wouldn't have alloy wheels. I prefer basic steel wheels. But just about everything has easily damaged alloy wheels now.

I suspect the 20" wheels mentioned are much wider than the peasant version 18" wheels. And hence present significant extra losses in use. Therefore, the higher battery depletion rate.

redsturgeon wrote:Perhaps its my age but am I the only one here who would always go for 18 inch wheel over 20 inch, much more comfortable ride on today's potholes roads and I don't really care if the 20 inch "look" better.

No, that's me as well. I lost the need for big bling wheels at about the same age when I got rid of my bumper-mounted foglights and furry dice.

They do say that 20 inch wheels have a dynamic property that speeds up the car's response to the road surface, especially on bends. The overall wheel is lighter, because of the slimmer tyre profile, and that helps the suspension to move up and down faster, so you get more grip. But I suspect that most EVs are capable of performance that the boy racers of past decades could only have dreamed of, so why put yourself through the agony?

BJ

In this particular case the wheels in question are 235 50 20inch vs 235 60 18inch. So same tread width but only 3,8% increase in overall diameter on the 20 inch wheel so a surprising difference in range.

redsturgeon wrote:In this particular case the wheels in question are 235 50 20inch vs 235 60 18inch. So same tread width but only 3,8% increase in overall diameter on the 20 inch wheel so a surprising difference in range.

Isn't a 3.8% increase in diameter a lot? Two pi r makes it about 12% more on the circumference?

BJ

redsturgeon wrote:On thing to bear in mind is that the 20 inch wheels will have lower profile tyres leading to perhaps to the same overall diameter as the 18 inch with the higher profile.

Perhaps its my age but am I the only one here who would always go for 18 inch wheel over 20 inch, much more comfortable ride on today's potholes roads and I don't really care if the 20 inch "look" better.

I always go for the standard wheels too, 1 for better ride, 2 for better fuel economy (often about 5-10% better on ICE, not the 20% implied for the EV).

redsturgeon wrote:In this particular case the wheels in question are 235 50 20inch vs 235 60 18inch. So same tread width but only 3,8% increase in overall diameter on the 20 inch wheel so a surprising difference in range.

And around a £280 price difference on a set of four when they need replacing (and with an EV with lots of torque that is more frequently than you might expect).

Niksen wrote:And around a £280 price difference on a set of four when they need replacing (and with an EV with lots of torque that is more frequently than you might expect).

LOL, what a bunch of codgers we sound like.

[Tongue firmly in cheek mode]
"I spent the best years of my youth fettling up the Escort so it would look really flash outside the pub. And all that time and money trying to wring a bit more handling out of it, even though the girls would sometimes throw up if I overdid the G forces going through the parabolic bends.....

And now look what's happened. I can finally afford a nice car, and the cars today are efficient, and reliable too, and they come with fantastic bling and great design and all that techno stuff - as standard, mind you.

And the wife says, what we need instead is a nice comfortable car for local trips, Arthur, and will you not go too fast because it doesn't agree with me? And to tell you the truth, my dicky hip's telling me the same story, and I think I'll pass on the thrills and settle for unobtrusive. And I'll save money on the tyres too. Anybody fancy a Werthers?"
[/Tongue firmly in cheek mode]

I'll get me coat. Can't seem to find me Rallye Monte Carlo anorak anywhere.

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:LOL, what a bunch of codgers we sound like.
BJ

Yes but even with the old codger 18 inch wheels this thing does 0-60 in 5.3 secs.

bungeejumper wrote:LOL, what a bunch of codgers we sound like.

Nah, a true ornery codger or curmudgeon would never consider an EV at all, but rather would drive something clunky from the 1990s.

Guilty, m'lud.