Trees for small housing estate

[midnightcatprowl]

I'm one of the Directors of the company for a small estate built in the mid-1980s consisting of two short roads of terraced houses. The company is responsible for the maintenance of the roads which are not adopted and will not be + a small number of other things including some small communal grassed areas.

Over the last couple of years the company has reluctantly had to remove several trees on the estate which were heaving the roadway, and/or were so close to houses and had grown so tall as to be a threat to them in a storm. These have included Sycamores and a couple of Leylandii‎. I'm the only Director who was here in the early days of the estate and even I moved in a couple of years after it was built. I know that the Leylandii type things were planted deliberately by householders who were trying to be helpful by adding something to the communal areas and who did not realise the potential growth of the little specimens they acquired in garden centres. I suspect that the Sycamore were self-sown and no one saw any reason to worry while they were small.

We feel that the removal of the trees while essential has not improved the appearance of the estate and the Directors would like to plant new trees but put them in the right place and choose the right kind of tree for the situation. We are definitely thinking 'tree' not the sort of urban bush type thing you see planted in supermarket car parks. I've been given the job of researching what we should buy and plant. I like trees but have no expertise beyond admiring them. The estate is in an urban area in Bedfordshire, the ground is brickmakers clay covered with what developers optimistically refer to as topsoil.

I know you can't make a tree grow to order as it were but we don't want to plant something and then later discover it will grow to twice the height of the houses or is known for its tendency to surface rooting - for example in the Council adopted road leading to our estate there are some very attractive flowering cherry trees but they've played havoc with the pavements and also seem to have rather a short life span.

Any thought, suggestions, guidance would be welcome.

[sg31]

The RHS has a page on 'Trees for small gardens' that might be a place to start...

https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=117

[BT63]

What about some rare/local varieties of apple tree on the M25 rootstock, possibly the MM111 rootstock?
Nice blossom (very bee friendly if not sprayed), colourful fruit, something to eat or cook. Don't plant common varieties because they're usually prone to disease.
The Laxton Brothers bred a number of useful but now almost extinct apple varieties in the Bedford area a century ago.

Many people think apple trees reach a large size but what they're usually referring to is an unpruned, far-stronger-than-average, lone survivor of a 150-year-old orchard that hasn't been pruned/tidied for decades. Or they're referring to professionally grown trees which are irrigated, fed and sprayed, which allows trees to grow far faster and larger.
Most fruit trees are far more manageable than 'the books' would have you believe, especially when planted under grass cover, and on poorer quality builders rubble they may be considerably smaller/grow slower than you'd expect.

[pompeygazza]

the only thing about planting apple trees is that the apples drop off and unless cleared will make a heck of a mess.

I'd vote for silver birch, they look good, pretty small leaves, and they grow fairly slowly.

[Gengulphus]

the only thing about planting apple trees is that the apples drop off and unless cleared will make a heck of a mess.

Crab apples are generally better from that point of view - the fruits are much smaller, tend to stay on the tree until eaten by wildlife and even if they do drop off, their small size makes them much less of a mess. Though there are some varieties with somewhat bigger fruits that might produce more of a mess, so do check which variety you're buying and what its fruits are like if the mess is a concern.

The drawback compared with apples is of course that the fruits aren't edible, at least by humans. Though at least some varieties make a very good jelly if one is that way inclined...

Gengulphus

[Stonge]

We have enormous problems with Lime trees planted outside our house on the verge that all local authorities are now denying responsibility for. District council - no. County council - no. Highways authority - no.

If you can avoid trees, you will be better off in the long run.

[Breelander]

We have enormous problems with Lime trees ...

NEVER park under a Lime tree that's in leaf. The sap that drips from the leaves dries to the consistency of epoxy resin!

[Stonge]

Breelander - I can testify to the truth of that.

[BT63]

the only thing about planting apple trees is that the apples drop off and unless cleared will make a heck of a mess.

If the apples are tasty the local residents will pick most of them before they drop.

[Slarti]

We have enormous problems with Lime trees ...

NEVER park under a Lime tree that's in leaf. The sap that drips from the leaves dries to the consistency of epoxy resin!

I have been informed by the National Arboretum that it is not sap, but aphid wee.

A particular species of aphid just loves Lime trees, eats the sap and then lets loos an almost continuous rain of wee, because there are so many of the little buggers.

We've got 2 in our front garden and boy do they shed a lot of leaves.

Slarti

[bungeejumper]

Congrats on losing the sycamores. Nasty invasive weeds.

Birch is brilliant, especially if you go for smaller varieties such as Jacquemontii (which will top out at 25 feet or so). The main downside is that birch pollen is probably the most allergenic stuff that's commonly found in Britain. Far more sniffle-worthy than grass, for many people, and it starts in March, worse luck. But we love ours enough to put up with that. Another possible downside is that small boys sometimes feel obliged to try and peel the paper bark off.

Is there a dwarf plane tree, I wonder? Otherwise I'd stick to the tried and tested maples. And cherry is always lovely, of course.

BJ

[bionichamster]

Birch is probably the most practical if you want a managable tree, but flowering cherries are also quite nice and for a few weeks in the spring they can look great when in blossom. Mind you we have several in the garden and I'd prefer it if they actually bore some fruit..... but maybe not for pavements and roads. The other thing is that once it falls the blossom is a bit messy, it's like having autumn leaves twice a year.

BH

[bungeejumper]

PS: The following website has a lot of info (at the very bottom) about tree sizes for about 110 tree species, and also about the recommended distances from any buildings. I'd say that its projections of maximum height are on the generous side, but it's all good stuff:

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/docs/guideline% ... %20version).pdf

Edit: I notice that the brackets in the URL above are causing problems. Don't know how to fix this, except to suggest that you copy and paste the above link in its entirety into your browser. Or google for "maple trees housing", and it's about the seventh entry.

Hope it helps.

BJ

[midnightcatprowl]

My concern about flowering cherry is that mentioned in my original post. We have those on the next road (old established road maintained by the Council) and though they are lovely, not to mention very attractive to bees, they seem very prone to surface rooting which has led to all sorts of problems.

[Breelander]

Edit: I notice that the brackets in the URL above are causing problems. Don't know how to fix this...

It was the ')' that broke the link. Other characters such as '[', 'space' and 'apostrophe' can do it too (as it did on TMF and many others sites, not just 'LemonFool'). Kiloran has written a converter that will make such troublesome links 'post-able'.
http://lemonfoolfinancialsoftware.weebl ... ormat.html

And here's a working version of your link.
http://www.leeds.gov.uk/docs/guideline% ... ion%29.pdf

[bungeejumper]

Thanks, Bree!

BJ

[oldapple]

Another suggestion, though I do like those already made. They're not always a favourite (I remember a radio gardener who hated them), but we have a Golden King holly which seems to be a haven for thrushes, blackbirds and many other birds. It covered a lot of ground space originally but this year I took out the lower branches to leave a clear trunk of about 4 feet. It always seems to have berries at various stages of ripeness, ours is covered with red and green berries, and it has never given any trouble yet (hope this doesn't tempt fate). It's evergreen but when it does shed leaves, they are not the messy kind. I don't know how deep the roots go but it survives our exposed site high on a hillside. It's useful at Christmas too if it's not raided too severely.

[bungeejumper]

Holly - good call! You do need to keep the roots away from buildings, buried drains etc, because they're incredibly tough and can even disrupt house foundations, given the chance. But a couple of metres of distance should suffice. Yes, the birds love the berries. Right now, we need all the thrushes we can get.

BJ

[didds]

...cherries are also quite nice ..... but maybe not for pavements and roads.

IMO the birds clear away any chance of fruit ending up on the ground!

didds

[midnightcatprowl]

Thanks all. Some very useful information in this thread and I'm gradually reading through the extra information given via links. I don't think we have to make an immediate decision though presumably it would be best to plant during winter? It may be best to have different trees in different positions according to the size of the plot, nearness of walls, drains, etc?