The Lemon Fool

I don't think it will work, as being indicated, that if the LTA is increased on the basis that will prevent more GP's etc. retiring earlier in having reached their LTA limit.

Many of the early retired have other commitments, I've seen figures of 9 million of that number being carers i.e. for their partner/family members.

Unless personal allowances are increased then more will be pulled into paying more taxation. A inflationary pension increase that is then handed back in the way of taxation ... will further hurt the already low opinion of the Tories. As will those paying uni-tax (graduate 'loans'), who already fall into a high level taxation type rate upon earning more than the minimum wage such that there's low incentive to work more hours etc. £10/hour, with overtime paid at the regular hourly rate and OT yields £5/hour ... type disincentive.

Corporate tax increases with 're-investment' tax breaks, only works for a small proportion, services for instance might not have the option to buy new equipment in order to offset corporate taxation increases.

So far, pre-budget, I'm not foreseeing a good budget. Help with pre-school childcare perhaps being seen as the biggest general winner, at the expense to other taxpayers.

The budget speech is all just ballacks isnt it?

I used to watch it avidly but these days you're far better waiting for the numerous 'budget analysis' emails to hit your inbox. Then you get to see the bits hes skipped through in his speech.

Honestly Hunt, just release the full statement in an email to the country and save us all the bullshit.

1nvest wrote:Unless personal allowances are increased then more will be pulled into paying more taxation. A inflationary pension increase that is then handed back in the way of taxation

It has already been telegraphed that there won't be any tax cuts in this budget. They will be held back until March of next year as an election tactic.

Fun trivia fact - if the state pension goes up in 2024 by the same percentage as in 2023, then my annual state pension will exceed the personal allowance. Think about that - someone whose ony income is a state pension will still have to pay (some) income tax on it.

1nvest wrote:Unless personal allowances are increased then more will be pulled into paying more taxation.

I thought that was the "How to pay for Covid" plan. Not just those pulled into basic rate, but also those becoming 40% taxpayers.

The grown up children are busy arguing and jeering,
the budget is just about to start

LTA abolished and you can subscribe up to £60K pa to you're pension tax free

1nvest wrote:I don't think it will work, as being indicated, that if the LTA is increased on the basis that will prevent more GP's etc. retiring earlier in having reached their LTA limit.

Many of the early retired have other commitments, I've seen figures of 9 million of that number being carers i.e. for their partner/family members.

Unless personal allowances are increased then more will be pulled into paying more taxation. A inflationary pension increase that is then handed back in the way of taxation ... will further hurt the already low opinion of the Tories. As will those paying uni-tax (graduate 'loans'), who already fall into a high level taxation type rate upon earning more than the minimum wage such that there's low incentive to work more hours etc. £10/hour, with overtime paid at the regular hourly rate and OT yields £5/hour ... type disincentive.

Corporate tax increases with 're-investment' tax breaks, only works for a small proportion, services for instance might not have the option to buy new equipment in order to offset corporate taxation increases.

So far, pre-budget, I'm not foreseeing a good budget. Help with pre-school childcare perhaps being seen as the biggest general winner, at the expense to other taxpayers.

Why am I not surprised. The problem with this country in general is the cynicism that is abroad. I would have thought that abolishing the LTA and increasing the annual contributions to £60,000 would be welcomed and at least it answers the concerns of apparently doctors inter alia.

Dod

1nvest wrote:I don't think it will work, as being indicated, that if the LTA is increased on the basis that will prevent more GP's etc. retiring earlier in having reached their LTA limit.

Many of the early retired have other commitments, I've seen figures of 9 million of that number being carers i.e. for their partner/family members.

Unless personal allowances are increased then more will be pulled into paying more taxation. A inflationary pension increase that is then handed back in the way of taxation ... will further hurt the already low opinion of the Tories. As will those paying uni-tax (graduate 'loans'), who already fall into a high level taxation type rate upon earning more than the minimum wage such that there's low incentive to work more hours etc. £10/hour, with overtime paid at the regular hourly rate and OT yields £5/hour ... type disincentive.

Corporate tax increases with 're-investment' tax breaks, only works for a small proportion, services for instance might not have the option to buy new equipment in order to offset corporate taxation increases.

So far, pre-budget, I'm not foreseeing a good budget. Help with pre-school childcare perhaps being seen as the biggest general winner, at the expense to other taxpayers.

Why am I not surprised? Cynicism as I have said many times is not an attractive attribute and I would have thought that abolishing the LTA and increasing the annual contributions to £60,000 for instance would have been welcomed and at least it seems to answer the complaints from doctors.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:Why am I not surprised. The problem with this country in general is the cynicism that is abroad. I would have thought that abolishing the LTA and increasing the annual contributions to £60,000 would be welcomed and at least it answers the concerns of apparently doctors inter alia.

Dod

Surely the cynicism is entirely justified because so many measures are introduced to rectify mistakes made in previous budgets or by previous dministrations. Abolishing the LTA just eliminates things that George Osborne and the pundits at the time were so proud of, and yet as subsequent experience showed were hugely mistaken.

Dod101 wrote:

1nvest wrote:I don't think it will work, as being indicated, that if the LTA is increased on the basis that will prevent more GP's etc. retiring earlier in having reached their LTA limit.

Many of the early retired have other commitments, I've seen figures of 9 million of that number being carers i.e. for their partner/family members.

Unless personal allowances are increased then more will be pulled into paying more taxation. A inflationary pension increase that is then handed back in the way of taxation ... will further hurt the already low opinion of the Tories. As will those paying uni-tax (graduate 'loans'), who already fall into a high level taxation type rate upon earning more than the minimum wage such that there's low incentive to work more hours etc. £10/hour, with overtime paid at the regular hourly rate and OT yields £5/hour ... type disincentive.

Corporate tax increases with 're-investment' tax breaks, only works for a small proportion, services for instance might not have the option to buy new equipment in order to offset corporate taxation increases.

So far, pre-budget, I'm not foreseeing a good budget. Help with pre-school childcare perhaps being seen as the biggest general winner, at the expense to other taxpayers.

Why am I not surprised. The problem with this country in general is the cynicism that is abroad. I would have thought that abolishing the LTA and increasing the annual contributions to £60,000 would be welcomed and at least it answers the concerns of apparently doctors inter alia.

Dod

I agree, I've always thought the LTA was iniquitous and it over complicates the system. It penalises good performance of your pension fund and is unnecessary as your pension income is taxed when you take it anyway. If they were/are worried about pensions being over generous for the very well off then perhaps the 25% lump sum could be limited ( to say a maximum of £250K in total)

SKS sums it up well

Managed decline. Sticky plaster. Tory cupboard as bare as the salad isle in supermarkets, lettuces are our but turnips are in ... As their expiry date draws ever closer

Nimrod103 wrote:

Dod101 wrote:Why am I not surprised. The problem with this country in general is the cynicism that is abroad. I would have thought that abolishing the LTA and increasing the annual contributions to £60,000 would be welcomed and at least it answers the concerns of apparently doctors inter alia.

Dod

Surely the cynicism is entirely justified because so many measures are introduced to rectify mistakes made in previous budgets or by previous dministrations. Abolishing the LTA just eliminates things that George Osborne and the pundits at the time were so proud of, and yet as subsequent experience showed were hugely mistaken.

It is so easy to be right with hindsight. These pension reforms introduced by Osborne were absolutely radical and it would have been a miracle if they had all been exactly right at the time. There is an argument that the matter could/should have been rectified much earlier
but c’est la vie.

Dod

1nvest wrote:SKS sums it up well

Managed decline. Sticky plaster. Tory cupboard as bare as the salad isle in supermarkets, lettuces are our but turnips are in ... As there expiry date draws ever closer

Ha! Ha! Very funny. Nothing more to say than quote Starmer.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:Ha! Ha! Very funny. Nothing more to say than quote Starmer.
Dod

I switched off before he came on, cannot STAND any more of his negative whingeing.

daveh wrote:

Dod101 wrote:

1nvest wrote:I don't think it will work, as being indicated, that if the LTA is increased on the basis that will prevent more GP's etc. retiring earlier in having reached their LTA limit.

Many of the early retired have other commitments, I've seen figures of 9 million of that number being carers i.e. for their partner/family members.

Unless personal allowances are increased then more will be pulled into paying more taxation. A inflationary pension increase that is then handed back in the way of taxation ... will further hurt the already low opinion of the Tories. As will those paying uni-tax (graduate 'loans'), who already fall into a high level taxation type rate upon earning more than the minimum wage such that there's low incentive to work more hours etc. £10/hour, with overtime paid at the regular hourly rate and OT yields £5/hour ... type disincentive.

Corporate tax increases with 're-investment' tax breaks, only works for a small proportion, services for instance might not have the option to buy new equipment in order to offset corporate taxation increases.

So far, pre-budget, I'm not foreseeing a good budget. Help with pre-school childcare perhaps being seen as the biggest general winner, at the expense to other taxpayers.

Why am I not surprised. The problem with this country in general is the cynicism that is abroad. I would have thought that abolishing the LTA and increasing the annual contributions to £60,000 would be welcomed and at least it answers the concerns of apparently doctors inter alia.

Dod

I agree, I've always thought the LTA was iniquitous and it over complicates the system. It penalises good performance of your pension fund and is unnecessary as your pension income is taxed when you take it anyway. If they were/are worried about pensions being over generous for the very well off then perhaps the 25% lump sum could be limited ( to say a maximum of £250K in total)

I am not and never have been affected by the pension reforms but I could never understand why they would penalise your pension simply because you have been successful with your investments. There are as you say, other ways they tax it and the more you have the more HMRC gets anyway. This has got to be right whatever your politics.

Dod

Lootman wrote:

1nvest wrote:Unless personal allowances are increased then more will be pulled into paying more taxation. A inflationary pension increase that is then handed back in the way of taxation

It has already been telegraphed that there won't be any tax cuts in this budget. They will be held back until March of next year as an election tactic.

Fun trivia fact - if the state pension goes up in 2024 by the same percentage as in 2023, then my annual state pension will exceed the personal allowance. Think about that - someone whose ony income is a state pension will still have to pay (some) income tax on it.

I still maintain that there should be a fundamental rule. No person who receives a benefit should pay income tax. No person who pays income tax is eligible for a benefit.

With regard to the state pension, many people who are in receipt of Additional and Graduated Pensions already are liable to income tax on some of the pension that they receive.

TJH

tjh290633 wrote:I still maintain that there should be a fundamental rule. No person who receives a benefit should pay income tax. No person who pays income tax is eligible for a benefit.
TJH

Sounds fine until you consider those on £20-25k p.a

Abolish the LTA (and presumably LTA tests). Wow! Did not see that coming as leaks indicated it was going back to the £1.8m it was at under the Brown government. I need to check the small print, but it sounds like I will be into the champagne later.

Dod101 wrote:

1nvest wrote:SKS sums it up well

Managed decline. Sticky plaster. Tory cupboard as bare as the salad isle in supermarkets, lettuces are our but turnips are in ... As there expiry date draws ever closer

Ha! Ha! Very funny. Nothing more to say than quote Starmer.

Dod

After the Silly Hunt's Eeee ba gum budget speech, there's little to add.
Dragging base state pensioners into taxation as Lootman indicated earlier is a nice Con - increase pensions in line with inflation ... and take some back again via taxation.
Increasing the LTA wont retain GP's, many opted to drop to half weeks after their pay was doubled some years back. Many don't even do their contracted hours, prefer to phone in with a I'm taking the day off short notice to the front desk who are left to frantically phone around for locums. Graduates in their first jobs remain less inclined to increase hours when taxation is increased to 9% student tax, 20% income tax, 12% NI.
Many of the 50+ early retired wont re-enter the workforce, because 9 million of them are serving as carers, on £60 odd week support (carer allowance). Whereas if instead their partner is put into a care home they're expected to pay £1200/week.
Free childcare is a nice gesture, but already the centres can't get the workers, but I guess some might opt to work as child-carers for other peoples children whilst having their own children cared for by others for-free.
Energy support for companies ends as of April, whilst Corporation tax increases, so a natural tendency for contraction/decline (nothing for SME's, where many that have been running for decades are and will continue to simply shut-up-shop).

pje16 wrote:

tjh290633 wrote:I still maintain that there should be a fundamental rule. No person who receives a benefit should pay income tax. No person who pays income tax is eligible for a benefit.
TJH

Sounds fine until you consider those on £20-25k p.a

Why?

TJH