Cutting the Gordian Knot

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beeswax
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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby beeswax » January 9th, 2017, 11:46 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:
mswjr wrote:Perhaps Richasdotcom might feel inclined to apologise to the OP.


No apology required, I'm really not that sensitive! ;)

I was fully aware when making the original post that anything to do with Brexit was bound to elicit strong reactions. This is inevitable, as for many people it's now a (dread words) `matter of principle', and they feel bound to assert / defend that principle vigorously on every occasion.

It would be very refreshing if people could simply put their arguments without feeling it necessary to bolster them by rubbishing the arguments / character of their opponents. Calling someone or their views stupid, ignorant, naive or worse adds no strength at all to an argument - in fact it tends to indicate that its advocate lacks confidence in the argument and is seeking to divert attention from the argument to the opponent(s) personally.

But that's obviously a counsel of perfection. All we can realistically hope for is that people count to 10 (or maybe 100) before clicking on the `Submit' button, and ask themselves are they really contributing anything or just letting off steam, and whether their criticism of their opponents and/or their views really needs to be stated - after all, it should be pretty obvious from the context of the post.

I sympathise with the moderators in a situation like this, as it's a difficult decision as to when a post crosses the line. But moderation is certainly needed so as to avoid a discussion descending into a slanging match.

I'm sorry some Remainers are so thin skinned. Perhaps they should try to contain their bitterness and exercise civility themselves rather than only demanding it from others.
The tenor of the post I objected to was juvenile and indulgently rude, its self- righteousness setting an entirely different tone to the thread, so I certainly don't apologise for calling it out.
To call someone's ideas 'funny' and 'hilarious', and 'needing to wait for 'the crash' before many of 'them' realise who paid for the small dog' is self- indulgence- it certainly isn't mature, polite debate as the forum rules require.
Perhaps Richasdotcom might feel inclined to apologise to the OP.
I also note I wasn't the only one to note the bitterness but I don't want to contribute to having this area removed, so I'll not post any more.

Whilst you may be making some valid points I really feel that arguing with the mods is unacceptable. You may disagree with them but c'est la vie - just accept it and forget it. The boards can't run properly if the mods are forced to defend their decisions.


Great reply by Clitherokid and the Mods are doing an excellent job and all for free too...Bless em!

I too should learn to count to 10 or a 100 before I post something and so lets try and keep their work down to a minimum

Kind regards everyone..

Mike

Richasdotcom
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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby Richasdotcom » January 10th, 2017, 7:26 am

Clitheroekid wrote:
Richasdotcom wrote:The whole concept is to spread the prosperity across the continent, to have the newer poorer members get huge productivity gains, to drag them up to the Northern European level as soon as possible (decades). They can provide the dynamism and growth our single market needs.

That may be the concept, but as with so many other aspects of the EU there's a huge gap between theory and practice, and so far this `concept' has been an abject failure.

Look at the charts showing economic growth for the following countries, all of which joined the EU in 2004 (unfortunately I couldn't link directly to the long term chart, so just click on `max' at the top of the chart to show it):..



Thanks for this serious response. Firstly I was referring to productivity not a fairly short term measure of growth which includes the financial crisis. I also don't see from these charts quite the decline you suggest, maybe you could highlight the one where you think this is clearest and why? As for the non joiners, again I don't see the basis for your claim of superiority on growth never mind my point on productivity compared to the others who have completely opened their markets (and auditors) to higher standards.

Nor do we see the new members losing enthusiasm for membership and its benefits. If it was all a disaster for them we would have. Instead at most we get some rows about trivial numbers of non EU migrants going there or concern that they may be asked to take more than a trivial number.

We do have a level of Schumpeter's creative destruction going on in the the new member entrants but that is part of the productivity gain of the single market and greater competition and investment.

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby Richasdotcom » January 10th, 2017, 7:42 am

avconway wrote:
Richasdotcom wrote:The EU is about the four freedoms and it is about the single market. The whole concept is to spread the prosperity accross the continent, to have the newer poorer members get huge productivity gains, to drag them up to the Northern European level as soon as possible (decades). They can provide the dynamism and growth our single market needs.


Any scheme of governance, brilliant or not, that is imposed without discussion, agreement and listening to the people concerned, is tyranny. We may argue over “tyranny” as a description of the EU’s modus operandi, but there is little argument over its lack of democracy. Persuade me that the EU is democratic (i.e. that it is listening to, and responsive to, the people its edicts concern) and I shall regret my vote to leave. However, most British people, and (it seems) an increasing number across other parts of Europe, share my loathing of its tin ear.

It may be that Britons were /will be better off inside the EU, it may that Indians were better off inside the British Empire, it may be that the people of Palestine would have been better off tolerating floods of European Jewish immigrants, but it is all irrelevant if these good things are imposed over the heads of the people concerned. Impositions (of good things and bad) generate animosity, rejection and revolt. Those who would be democrats must first learn to discuss, talk, persuade and listen.

Avconway


There are no examples of EU tyranny - we as in our elected government and representatives do have a say, indeed we get most of what we ask for, the singe market, qualified majority voting and the expansion supported by Lib Lab and Con. Now I readily accept that the electorate can be alienated from that process, even with what seem good reasons but also that they can be misinformed .

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby Richasdotcom » January 10th, 2017, 7:54 am

TopOnePercent wrote:
Richasdotcom wrote:Later in the thread we get the old Brexit myth of the EU not doing deals with others - they have more bilateral deals than anybody else. The early ones not branded as free trade areas but acting in the same way as the latter ones branded as FTAs. When we leave the EU we lose all of those. Now we can likely do a deal with them, if we have the people to handle it (we don't now) but the intricacies of the free trade quotas and their interconnection with other countries deals and "our" share being part of the EUs quota make those reconstructions of even existing deals extraordinarily difficult. The idea that we are somehow going to leap forward with new better deals when our internal market s a mere fraction of that leveraged by the EU is funny. The idea that the EU that has the most experience of these deals of any country or block in the world is somehow poorly prepared or unable to do deals is hysterical.

Still, the Brexit mythology will have it so, we'll need to wait for the crash before many of them realise who paid for the small dog.


Moderator Message:
Redsturgeon: Edited to remove personal pejorative remark.


The EU just took 10 years to fudge a deal with Canada. It'll take the UK less than 4 years to achieve the same, and without any special interest groups having a veto stretching years into the future.

The EU can't agree what day of the week it is - their experience counts for less than nothing because they repeat the same errors time after time. Experience is only valuable if you learn from it and it must be obvious to all by now that the EU simply isn't learning. Nor is it working.

The hilarious idea that the "four freedoms" are linked and must remain so is tragically incorrect. WTO rules will mean massive cash flows towards the UK, at the same time as they lose 1/3rd of their net budget. The EU is going to be as broke as a labour chancellor, defenceless, and collapsing into civil war as the Italian banks crash and burn while half the nations in the EU start demanding referendums of their own. The EU simply can't afford to maintain its stance as it is literally cutting its own throat.


Again the EU has more of these treaties than anybody else. Now maybe Canada will do us a deal along the same sort of terms in ANOTHER 4 years but watch the detail, especially on the financial services access that we demanded that the EU make a priority and took up quite a lot of the decade.

You can claim that the EU is a tyranny and does far too much OR you can argue that it is ineffective and never agrees to do anything, what you can't reasonably do is claim both - the later requires agreement.

Meanwhile the EU is still standing, still doing OK, not collapsing despite the usual events and pressures all political institutions face. There is no panic at Brexit, some irritation but no fear on their side.

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby avconway » January 10th, 2017, 10:52 am

Richasdotcom wrote:Now I readily accept that the electorate can be alienated from that process, even with what seem good reasons but also that they can be misinformed .


Fine, firstly, I accept that you don’t like my use of the word ‘tyranny’ to mark a lack of democracy, but secondly, I see by your words above that you understand my essential point anent governance by agreement and consent vis-à-vis governance by imposition.

It must be amply clear by now that the British electorate has become alienated from those who sit in the tiers of government above it. It seems foolish to belabour this point, more so even to deny it. And similar voices of dissatisfaction are spreading throughout many of the EU’s 28 electorates.

These developments mark either a failure of governance or a failure of electorates. Bruxelles has choices to make – blame the electorates for their ignorance, stupidity and misinformation, or take on board that those who would be democrats must first learn to discuss, talk, persuade and listen.

Bruxelles' procedures are such that it is my guess that it will be ten years before we see signs that Bruxelles has taken on board that last learning point.

avconway

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby beeswax » January 10th, 2017, 11:35 am

Richas, you try and argue there is a democratic legitimacy in the EU because each country has representation on the Council of Ministers with majority voting. Even though that may mean some countries have to accept laws and directives they wouldn't otherwise do.

But how many countries have been allowed to actually vote on the EU treaties and changes thereto? eg Maastricht and Lisbon where significant powers have been given away? And even when we here have been promised one, the political leaders have backtracked?

The EU and each EU countries leaders KNOW they couldn't get the vote through and why they resist it and Its so obvious that you will know as a Labour supporter when Tony Benn, said the minute you cannot control your own laws and your own borders you cease to be a democracy.

Do you accept that still?

The whole point is when the political leaders lose touch with their electorates eg here when ALL the main parties are Pro EU then what happens then? Revolution? Its already been said on this thread that the EU was and is never about trade or the single market but a single country with political control from the centre. Its been tried so many times and failed and yet they still persist and what is worse is when we hear former Prime Ministers like Blair and Major say it was crazy allowing us a referendum...what does that tell us?

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby TopOnePercent » January 10th, 2017, 8:28 pm

Richasdotcom wrote:You can claim that the EU is a tyranny and does far too much OR you can argue that it is ineffective and never agrees to do anything, what you can't reasonably do is claim both - the later requires agreement.

Meanwhile the EU is still standing, still doing OK, not collapsing despite the usual events and pressures all political institutions face. There is no panic at Brexit, some irritation but no fear on their side.



Nice non-sequitur there Rich. The tyranny of the EU is by now well understood by all, however your attempt to link tyranny with doing too much is illogical and incorrect. Activity != tyranny.

The EU is still standing but the collapse is well underway. The foundations are toast and even those towards the top of the edifice are beginning to hear the noise and fell the shaking. 2017 will see the top to bottom cracks appear which will widen significantly as we progress towards our ultimate exit in 2019.

I don't spend a lot of time telling cute fluffy bunnies that they ain't scary. Why then do Europhiles spend so much effort telling us they don't fear Brexit. Could it perhaps be that it terrifies them, and they're hoping that if they can convince us that they're not terrified that one day maybe they can convince themselves?

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby dspp » January 10th, 2017, 10:54 pm

TopOnePercent wrote: The tyranny of the EU is by now well understood by all, however your attempt to link tyranny with doing too much is illogical and incorrect. ........ I don't spend a lot of time telling cute fluffy bunnies that they ain't scary. Why then do Europhiles spend so much effort telling us they don't fear Brexit. Could it perhaps be that it terrifies them, and they're hoping that if they can convince us that they're not terrified that one day maybe they can convince themselves?


I can't speak for the other poster but repeatedly confusing tyranny with democracy isn't a good start, and repetition doesn't make it any more correct. However I can say that I don't regard Brexit as a cute fluffy bunny pastime as it will in my opinion have far more serious consequences for people ill-placed to cope with the likely misery that will result. Hence taking the time to point out the problem.

Someone here recently asked if any Brexiteers with 'skin in the game' could give personal insight into the likely consequences. So far I have heard replies regarding what might happen to the City, which I found interesting & helpful especially because I am not sure I agree (which is another reason I bother to pay attention, as I might learn). However I have yet to hear from Brexiteers with non-City real skin in the game. Can you assist ?

regards, dspp

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby Clitheroekid » January 10th, 2017, 11:12 pm

dspp wrote:However I have yet to hear from Brexiteers with non-City real skin in the game. Can you assist ?

Nobody can assist you as nobody has the faintest idea what will happen.

Predictions, if they are to be of any use, are based on similar events in history. However, the Brexit project is entirely unprecedented, so there are no useful historical models.

There are any number of predictive models that can be and have been wheeled out by `pointy-headed professors', ranging from the catastrophic to the utopian. And because economists are experts at manipulating figures to match their personal beliefs and prejudices every one of the models will be perfectly well argued and fully supported by carefully selected statistics.

Equally well qualified and experienced economists are able to argue quite convincingly that white is black and vice versa.

As there is not even the remotest hint of a consensus amongst professional economists regarding the outcome asking lay persons for their `insight into the likely consequences' is like asking them when and how the world will end. You will get a range of answers, some more rationally argued than others, but none of them has any real value - they are simply predictions based on nothing.

You may as well consult an astrologer.

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby Alaric » January 10th, 2017, 11:18 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:Admittedly, the countries of southern Europe were somewhat less `virtuous’ than those of the north, but they were near enough to be welcomed into the family.


I'd suspect the ability for younger people from Northern Europe to be able to enjoy a summer working holiday helped the acceptability.

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby 1nv35t » January 10th, 2017, 11:40 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:Whether we approve of it or not I think it’s generally accepted that the main reason that most people voted for Brexit was to place severe limits on immigration.

This has led to an immovable object / irresistible force situation, as we want access to the single market, but we can’t acquire it unless we agree to freedom of entry to EU citizens

The US (and rest of world) has access to the single market, and indeed exports more to it than does the UK. Membership of the single market involves freedom of movement, access doesn't. After we're no long a member of the single market the EU can't really put up tariffs for access as reciprocal tariffs would be a net loss for the EU's UK export trade and would be more of a hit upon the US, who most likely would hit back harder. The EU could impose some form of punitive bureaucracy measures to hurt the UK, but in so doing end up hurting itself. Its already lagging the rest of the world and additional bureaucracy would only make things even worse. Aggravating the worlds 5th largest economy and #1 ranked financial centre (i.e. UK) for political point scoring may very well see commercial pressures to water down such policies, such that a amicable deal will be struck after all the political point scoring.

Freed to strike our own trade deals with the other 6.5 billion world population, likely we'll see a significant reversal of the UK's focus of trade being directed towards the EU to instead being redirected elsewhere ... where there are far better growth prospects, and that don't come with stupid rules such as trade agreements having human trafficking terms tied into those agreements.

Together with Germany, France and Italy the UK provided the major support pillars for the EU's development. With one of those pillars being removed (UK) and Italian banks highly questionable, the remainder EU tripod support is shaky/unstable. It absolutely must converge in order to sustain through, and once a single state entity access will become even easier, as easy as German taxpayers funds being spent in Greece. One way or another it will sustain through to become a single entity, where everyone within that is levelled down to the lowest common denominator, which for the likes of the French/Germans/Italians is a considerable decline. We'll look back in a decade time and like not having joined the Euro (retired the Pound), we'll be grateful we made the right choice. The next decade however will likely see a bumpy ride, but nowhere near as bad as what we've already experienced in the past (the Pound came about in the 750's and has subsequently prevailed through thick and thin). Border/migration control is a absolute must for the UK to share around its wealth amongst its inhabitants. NHS, universal credits ... etc. are just not viable when there are no migration controls. The EU will become more like the US, with massive differences between the fit/able (haves) and the unfit (have-nots). Having such a single entity nation on our doorstep will be beneficial for the UK.

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby hamzahf » January 10th, 2017, 11:57 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:
dspp wrote:However I have yet to hear from Brexiteers with non-City real skin in the game. Can you assist ?

You will get a range of answers, some more rationally argued than others, but none of them has any real value - they are simply predictions based on nothing.


Fair enough, but business needs to plan. Investment decisions need to be made in a timely fashion. On another thread, dspp was being castigated for planning that the outcome would be bad for the business they work in based on consideration of current international tariffs. Perhaps there are other businesses where the WTO option will be advantageous and prompting much more positive investment decisions?

If all we have at present is a guess, is not pessimism a valid a position to take as we move away from known business scenarios into the unknown? How can a business be expected to make evidence-based plans on a hunch that 'it will be all right in the end'? Isn't that an irresponsible position?

Sir James Dyson is positive about the future and planning accordingly.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/sir-james-dyso ... te-1581228

But being a naysayer if I pick at his arguments they don't stack up, particularly non-EU migration of skilled engineers that we already have the power to facilitate.

"He also said the decision to leave the EU would help the UK address its shortage of engineers – a factor which had curbed the expansion plans of his own company. Now, companies in the UK will be able to attract more engineers and scientists from India, China and the Far East, by making the UK's immigration system global."

And then there is that optimism about what others would be daft to do. How dare they?

"Speaking about the prospects of import duties on trade between the EU and the UK, Dyson said it would be suicidal for the EU to introduce tariffs on UK goods. He stressed that this was because the UK's imports from the EU exceeded its exports by £100bn.

"Are you seriously saying that Germany wants to be putting an import duty on British goods going into Germany when we can punish them much greater on their goods?" Dyson asked, according to the Guardian."


Dyson's big gripe appears to be that the UK cannot provide enough skilled engineers for his needs. That is the biggest block to expansion. His solution is to bring in skilled staff from overseas. How will leaving the EU impact one iota on that issue? I really struggle with such thinking from an ardent Brexit supporter.

Regards
Hamzah

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby Richasdotcom » January 11th, 2017, 12:17 am

beeswax wrote:Richas, you try and argue there is a democratic legitimacy in the EU because each country has representation on the Council of Ministers with majority voting. Even though that may mean some countries have to accept laws and directives they wouldn't otherwise do.

But how many countries have been allowed to actually vote on the EU treaties and changes thereto? eg Maastricht and Lisbon where significant powers have been given away? And even when we here have been promised one, the political leaders have backtracked?

The EU and each EU countries leaders KNOW they couldn't get the vote through and why they resist it and Its so obvious that you will know as a Labour supporter when Tony Benn, said the minute you cannot control your own laws and your own borders you cease to be a democracy.

Do you accept that still?

The whole point is when the political leaders lose touch with their electorates eg here when ALL the main parties are Pro EU then what happens then? Revolution? Its already been said on this thread that the EU was and is never about trade or the single market but a single country with political control from the centre. Its been tried so many times and failed and yet they still persist and what is worse is when we hear former Prime Ministers like Blair and Major say it was crazy allowing us a referendum...what does that tell us?


Ireland votes in a referendum on all EU treaties, other countries have had them, we have a law that says that if we transfer any power to Brussels we have to have a referendum (you may think this is moot but I'd suggest that it would apply to any bilateral agreement between EU and the UK, even if that deal involves us leaving and surrendering our ability to veto on matters that we are still affected by, including regulation of goods and services in the EU).

The democratic deficit within the EU is far less than our own democracy with majorities for minority votes and an unelected bloated Lords.

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby Richasdotcom » January 11th, 2017, 12:20 am

TopOnePercent wrote:
Richasdotcom wrote:You can claim that the EU is a tyranny and does far too much OR you can argue that it is ineffective and never agrees to do anything, what you can't reasonably do is claim both - the later requires agreement.

Meanwhile the EU is still standing, still doing OK, not collapsing despite the usual events and pressures all political institutions face. There is no panic at Brexit, some irritation but no fear on their side.



Nice non-sequitur there Rich. The tyranny of the EU is by now well understood by all, however your attempt to link tyranny with doing too much is illogical and incorrect. Activity != tyranny.


The point I was trying to make was that the EU is not tyranical, it is a democratic organisation with checks and balances, elected representatives and representation and rightss for all nation states. The structure means that the default is compromise and concensus not tyranny.

The way we can tell it is not a tyranny is that it is not possible to list any tyrannical actions taken by the EU.

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby Alaric » January 11th, 2017, 12:23 am

hamzahf wrote:Dyson's big gripe appears to be that the UK cannot provide enough skilled engineers for his needs. That is the biggest block to expansion. His solution is to bring in skilled staff from overseas. How will leaving the EU impact one iota on that issue? I really struggle with such thinking from an ardent Brexit supporter.


Is it that difficult? Assume that for political or even practical reasons, there's an upper limit to the number of overseas workers or benefit seekers that can be accommodated in the UK. If you allow unrestricted access to unskilled East Europeans, you are crowding out "skilled staff from overseas".

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby Richasdotcom » January 11th, 2017, 12:29 am

Alaric wrote:
hamzahf wrote:Dyson's big gripe appears to be that the UK cannot provide enough skilled engineers for his needs. That is the biggest block to expansion. His solution is to bring in skilled staff from overseas. How will leaving the EU impact one iota on that issue? I really struggle with such thinking from an ardent Brexit supporter.


Is it that difficult? Assume that for political or even practical reasons, there's an upper limit to the number of overseas workers or benefit seekers that can be accommodated in the UK. If you allow unrestricted access to unskilled East Europeans, you are crowding out "skilled staff from overseas".


Except of course Dyson is perfectly able to get non EU engineers work permits even with May's silly changes to restrict them. I know someone who works there and is a real multicultural mish mash.

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby 1nv35t » January 11th, 2017, 12:32 am

Richasdotcom wrote:the old Brexit myth of the EU not doing deals with others - they have more bilateral deals than anybody else. The early ones not branded as free trade areas but acting in the same way as the latter ones branded as FTAs. When we leave the EU we lose all of those.

The EU is a restrictive market, puts up barriers and quotas etc. The UK will be a more open market, easier for others (non-UK) to provide services/bid for contracts ...etc. unrestricted exports/imports.

Where that isn't reciprocated, then we can impose restrictions ... which tend to subsequently evolve into formal trade agreements (conditions/limits).

A less regulated, low tax, geopolitically stable country such as how the UK will be after Brexit, is a magnet for investment/trade. In contrast the EU might impose customs duties, quotas, access, red tape directed towards the UK in a trade agreement, or failing that have to accept WTO terms (for which a primary factor is not to discriminate). Going down the aggravated divorce route, would have the UK reciprocating harsh EU terms/conditions, which for one would be devastating for Ireland and a significant hit for the Germans. Any sensible pairing of negotiators with respect to Brexit is more likely to put aside political point scoring in favour of conditions that are more amicable to both sides.

The primary argument for retaining some form of Single Market membership is for the benefit of corporate structure/simplification. Without such membership (which is a given, given that all lead Brexit campaign on both sides said that the referendum was a vote to leave the single market, and that membership has enforced free movement) and we transition over to having single market access as per any other non-EU state. Corporate structures will need to adapt around that, typically by reporting to two entities instead of one and under such sub-division the UK is the more likely to retain the lion share. The Irish in awareness of that have been looking at specific rules such as directors having to reside in Ireland ...etc. however where one puts up such barriers, others for the sake of economic benefit will relax their rules (Luxembourg for instance). Catch 22, such that ultimately a more broad/common and amicable agreement is the more likely outcome. Simple grandfathering is IMO the more likely outcome (UK inherits the agreements, many of which are WTO based anyway, for which a agreement with the EU is also agreement with each individual entity within that). New members for instance inherit all EU agreements, being added as another country commonly sharing the same agreements. Reasonable for that to also work the other way around, with a departing member continuing to hold the agreements, until such times it might look to revise/drop individual cases itself.

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby gryffron » January 11th, 2017, 12:38 am

hamzahf wrote:Perhaps there are other businesses where the WTO option will be advantageous and prompting much more positive investment decisions?


Last year's devaluation of sterling was MORE than WTO tarrifs. So UK exporters are ALREADY in a better position than they were prior to the vote. Even assuming worst-case outcome of Mrs May's negotiations.

gryff

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby 1nv35t » January 11th, 2017, 12:41 am

Richasdotcom wrote:The way we can tell it is not a tyranny is that it is not possible to list any tyrannical actions taken by the EU.

Like installing technocrats to replace democratically elected?

When Germany was in difficulties the Greeks wrote off significant amounts of German debt. More recently the Germans having lent irresponsibly to the Greeks (Greeks irresponsibly borrowed in order to buy German manufactured stuff), has the Germans laying the irresponsibility solely upon the Greeks ... installing technocrats to hit that home.

That's pretty oppressive (tyrannical/dictatorial) IMO.

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Re: Cutting the Gordian Knot

Postby 1nv35t » January 11th, 2017, 12:51 am

hamzahf wrote:Perhaps there are other businesses where the WTO option will be advantageous and prompting much more positive investment decisions?

Part of the WTO responsibilities is to settle disputes/reduce tensions. If UK/EU negotiations turn sour then the WTO might be called upon. If/when so then the WTO strives to maintain equal balance, not have one predominately more powerful side getting its way, but rather a fair balance (waters down the we're 27, you're only 1 type threats the EU spurts out).


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