LED lightbulbs

[UncleEbenezer]

Call me paranoid if you like, but it appears to me that nearly all the messages on this thread have been posted after dark, when presumably, people writing those messages are burning the midnight LED.

Call me solenoid if you like[1], but it appears to me your observation isn't even true. A modest majority of posts being from hours of darkness just mirrors the winter balance of day and night.

[1] Sorry, coildn't resist!

[bungeejumper]

Call me solenoid if you like[1], but it appears to me your observation isn't even true. A modest majority of posts being from hours of darkness just mirrors the winter balance of day and night.

Speak for yourself. It's late morning here, and bloody freezing, and the curtains are still closed in most of our rooms because they're well insulated. Greetings from the land of the daylight oil.

BJ

[XFool]

It's too bright now! (Who says I'm hard to please?)

Belatedly I realised that, though the lamp was rated at 60W maximum for filament bulbs, I had been using small 42W halogen bulbs in it. Should have gone for a 40W equivalent LED.

Still, at least I have a working dimmer now.

[kiloran]

Speak for yourself. It's late morning here, and bloody freezing, and the curtains are still closed in most of our rooms because they're well insulated. Greetings from the land of the daylight oil.
BJ

If it's that cold, you should replace the LEDs with incandescents. Far more heat

--kiloran

[DrFfybes]

If it's that cold, you should replace the LEDs with incandescents. Far more heat

--kiloran

And they seem to last longer

Actually, I jusr realised why we have a box of old incadescents, it is because when the ban was proposed CFLs were the common replacement and they were a pile of poo and LEDS were still very new, not very efficient, and rather expensive.

And we haven't had to replace any of the outside ones yet.

[9873210]

Call me solenoid if you like[1], but it appears to me your observation isn't even true. A modest majority of posts being from hours of darkness just mirrors the winter balance of day and night.

[1] Sorry, coildn't resist!

Don't get your superconductors in a twist.

[XFool]

It's too bright now! (Who says I'm hard to please?)

Belatedly I realised that, though the lamp was rated at 60W maximum for filament bulbs, I had been using small 42W halogen bulbs in it. Should have gone for a 40W equivalent LED.

Still, at least I have a working dimmer now.

A couple of follow on queries over this...

Ocasionally, seemingly when the old dimmer is full on, the LED starts flickering rapidly. This is easily fixed by adjusting the dimmer slightly. Anyone know what this could be about?

Secondly, I notice that this 60W equivalent dimmable LED lamp (consumption ~6W) is shown on the package as graded 'D' on the ENERG scale (A - G). I thought this seemed surprisingly low. Especially when looking at the package of an old Philips 60W filament bulb (consumption 60W) which is graded 'E' on the same scale. Only one step lower.

Anyone any ideas on this?

[UncleEbenezer]

Secondly, I notice that this 60W equivalent dimmable LED lamp (consumption ~6W) is shown on the package as graded 'D' on the ENERG scale (A - G). I thought this seemed surprisingly low. Especially when looking at the package of an old Philips 60W filament bulb (consumption 60W) which is graded 'E' on the same scale. Only one step lower.

Anyone any ideas on this?

Not the same scale.

The scale changed completely in 2021 (as have energy efficiency scales for quite a few electric appliances). Your filament bulb will be graded on an entirely different scale.

Maybe someone here might know a rationale for confusing the issue by not making the new scale visibly different (e.g. switch A+++ to 10/10)?

[servodude]

Secondly, I notice that this 60W equivalent dimmable LED lamp (consumption ~6W) is shown on the package as graded 'D' on the ENERG scale (A - G). I thought this seemed surprisingly low. Especially when looking at the package of an old Philips 60W filament bulb (consumption 60W) which is graded 'E' on the same scale. Only one step lower.

Anyone any ideas on this?

Not the same scale.

The scale changed completely in 2021 (as have energy efficiency scales for quite a few electric appliances). Your filament bulb will be graded on an entirely different scale.

Maybe someone here might know a rationale for confusing the issue by not making the new scale visibly different (e.g. switch A+++ to 10/10)?

Easier to push it though cuz no-one (for normal values of no-one... excluding some here) notices that the numbers they see are actually "not the same as they were before"?

They just see numbers - think of comparing Watts for 80s music equipment

[XFool]

Secondly, I notice that this 60W equivalent dimmable LED lamp (consumption ~6W) is shown on the package as graded 'D' on the ENERG scale (A - G). I thought this seemed surprisingly low. Especially when looking at the package of an old Philips 60W filament bulb (consumption 60W) which is graded 'E' on the same scale. Only one step lower.

Anyone any ideas on this?

Not the same scale.

The scale changed completely in 2021 (as have energy efficiency scales for quite a few electric appliances). Your filament bulb will be graded on an entirely different scale.

Maybe someone here might know a rationale for confusing the issue by not making the new scale visibly different (e.g. switch A+++ to 10/10)?

Yet from this site about the new scale: https://energyguide.org.uk/appliance-energy-ratings/

New label for light sources (which is identical to the one on my LED package) as an example it shows a 'D' rating, quoted at 123 kWh/1000h for a light. My LED is rated the same 'D' at 6 kWh/1000h.

[DrFfybes]

New label for light sources (which is identical to the one on my LED package) as an example it shows a 'D' rating, quoted at 123 kWh/1000h for a light. My LED is rated the same 'D' at 6 kWh/1000h.

From what I can see the new "Efficiency" labels on Lightbulbs are completely pointless.

They basically take the power use in W and multiply it by 1000.

What they don't do is the most important thing, which is tell you how many lumens/W the lamp produces. This is generally between 70-110 or so however some of the latest Cree ones are in the 2-300 range, so obviously some LEDs are a lot more efficient than others. Cool white were more efficient than warm white initially (hence streetlights being a bit stark) but I gather the gap is narrowing.

Paul

[quelquod]

Not in my hovel it isn't!

I find one or another of my LED lamps packs up about once every couple of months and its only a tiny cottage.

Not in ours either though so far the costly failures have mostly been confined to the Status make of 100W ‘equivalents’ of the filament variety. We’ve had 4 or 5 failures of these (plus 2 or 3 Ikea 40W equivalent miniatures) in the last year. The failures have involved 1 or 2 of the filament strands failing followed by the lamp flashing periodically (possibly due to the power supply not coping well with the change of load).

I guess that the cost of failed LEDs has easily outstripped the total cost of failed incandescents since we’ve lived here but I’m too lazy to estimate whether the running costs have compensated.

I was prompted to resurrect this thread by the failure this evening of yet another of our ‘Status’ make of 100W equivalent (11W, ~1500 lumen) filament-type LED lamps. That makes 6 failures of this single type over the last 18 months or so at cost we won’t recover in electricity usage. Luckily it’s the last we have of that make! Anyone else found this brand to be so unreliable?

[UncleEbenezer]

I was prompted to resurrect this thread by the failure this evening of yet another of our ‘Status’ make of 100W equivalent (11W, ~1500 lumen) filament-type LED lamps. That makes 6 failures of this single type over the last 18 months or so at cost we won’t recover in electricity usage. Luckily it’s the last we have of that make! Anyone else found this brand to be so unreliable?

Never encountered the brand.

Most of my LEDs are cheapos from Screwfix. Never a problem. Neither with the (brighter but still cheapo) kitchen LEDs, called (from memory) something like Lyco.

[ukmtk]

I bought my LED bulbs from Amazon.
I try to choose those that have high ratings and comments.
They seem to have lasted quite well.

The bulbs that we have in lights that are on whenever it is dark seem to have lasted too.

For the kitchen & garage I have LED tubes replacing the old fluorescent tubes.
If these last the 000's of hours then they should outlast me!

The security lights are LED lights with the small patches - they seem to be alright for the last few years.
Cut down the wattage from halogen (640W) to a mere 64W!

[servodude]

For the kitchen & garage I have LED tubes replacing the old fluorescent tubes

These are the bees whiskers!
Saved me a couple of times when the ballast finally gave out on old fitments

[Tedx]

I had an electrician put an LED striplight in my loft last year.

Jesus, see when you turn it on it's like a collapsing star. You need a welders mask on to get around the loft. I'll need to turn it on and go outside when it's dark. The neighbours will probably think I've got some kind of weed farm up there (Hash in the Attic?)

[DrFfybes]

I was prompted to resurrect this thread by the failure this evening of yet another of our ‘Status’ make of 100W equivalent (11W, ~1500 lumen) filament-type LED lamps. That makes 6 failures of this single type over the last 18 months or so at cost we won’t recover in electricity usage. Luckily it’s the last we have of that make! Anyone else found this brand to be so unreliable?

ISTR I've had Status brand lights pre LED, I think they were from poundland or somewhere similarly cheap and performed poorly.

Also a 100W equivalent is high output, the LEDs will be driven hard and likely get hot. I've had some 7W/60W equivalents that was fine in a lamp with the light above the electronics, even in an outside light, but hung down from the ceiling one failed within a year. Could have been coincidence.

Hiher output LEDs need to be large as they need to dissipate heat and are usually made of numerous smaller elements - we had a 'globe' shade that took G9 fittings and the higher output LEDs were too long to fit in And those tiny 12V G4s are also a PITA as the LEDs cannot be physically small enough, but also the transformer needs a minimum load so won't work with LEDs. For these types of bulbs I find the DAR brand pretty good, a bit more pricy but they seem to last. Probably the only LED replacement that lasted better than the old halogen ones.

Paul

[quelquod]

I was prompted to resurrect this thread by the failure this evening of yet another of our ‘Status’ make of 100W equivalent (11W, ~1500 lumen) filament-type LED lamps. That makes 6 failures of this single type over the last 18 months or so at cost we won’t recover in electricity usage. Luckily it’s the last we have of that make! Anyone else found this brand to be so unreliable?

ISTR I've had Status brand lights pre LED, I think they were from poundland or somewhere similarly cheap and performed poorly.

Also a 100W equivalent is high output, the LEDs will be driven hard and likely get hot. I've had some 7W/60W equivalents that was fine in a lamp with the light above the electronics, even in an outside light, but hung down from the ceiling one failed within a year. Could have been coincidence. …

ISTR buying the Status brand as they were one of the earlier to offer the more attractive ‘filament’ style of LEDs in the higher wattages (they even did a 150W equivalent, perhaps still do). I doubt if the individual LED die are driven any harder, just more of them for the higher lumen outputs, though obviously there’s more heat to get rid of overall. The failure mode has been the same every time which is that 1 of the ‘filaments’ fails (likely 1 of the die goes o/c) followed by pulsing and eventual failure of the power supply (or my patience).

Our other standard-sized LED lamps have all come from ASDA with a few early ones from IKEA and they’ve been fine to date.

I was quite an early adopter of LED battens and I’ve 8 mounted in the roof of my garage. Last summer there were a few occasions where 1 or other pulsed a bit which I think was probably power supply overheating issues on hot days. The power supply heat sinks in these are minimal bits of aluminium sheet and I’ve enlarged them during the winter so I’ll see if that helps. Screwing the battens direct to the roof was probably a poor move.

[GoSeigen]

It might be worth getting the supply checked...(or any big inductive loads on it!) if LEDs are blowing regularly (over/under voltage, surges) it could be prematurely aging other more expensive gear

That said if they're sitting wonky in bayonet fittings I'd start there!

While the LED itself doesn't produce much heat the power conversion gubbins might, especially if the input supply isn't where it was expecting it to be

We also have problems with regularly failing LED units in our commercial building, costing us a fortune and supporting the microplastic supply.

We have dozens of bayonet type 240V AC ceiling-mounted units. They are all enclosed in a reasonably sized bowl. They seem to get pretty hot but are surely designed to be used in this sort of ceiling-mounted enclosure -- I can imagine even smaller volume enclosures like this would be common...

Now clearly hot air rises, so being ceiling mounted there will be minimal convection cooling, but apart from this could there be other causes for them overheating? What @servodude said above about inductive loads piqued my interest. If that might be a problem what sort of devices should I be treating with suspicion? Fridges? Washing machines? Fans? Microwaves? Any other likely causes for the failures? We have tried a variety of brands with similar results.

Assuming we find an inductive-load culprit or similar, and given we have a 3-phase supply, would it help to put all the lighting circuits on one phase (maybe along with less-used plug circuits or harmless appliances) and everything else on the other two phases? Or is that ill-advised -- sparky might know, @csearl? Is there a protective device we could install on that phase to help the LEDs?


Grateful for any advice...


GS
EDIT: maybe drilling ventilation holes in the ceiling units would help with cooling?

[BullDog]

It might be worth getting the supply checked...(or any big inductive loads on it!) if LEDs are blowing regularly (over/under voltage, surges) it could be prematurely aging other more expensive gear

That said if they're sitting wonky in bayonet fittings I'd start there!

While the LED itself doesn't produce much heat the power conversion gubbins might, especially if the input supply isn't where it was expecting it to be

We also have problems with regularly failing LED units in our commercial building, costing us a fortune and supporting the microplastic supply.

We have dozens of bayonet type 240V AC ceiling-mounted units. They are all enclosed in a reasonably sized bowl. They seem to get pretty hot but are surely designed to be used in this sort of ceiling-mounted enclosure -- I can imagine even smaller volume enclosures like this would be common...

Now clearly hot air rises, so being ceiling mounted there will be minimal convection cooling, but apart from this could there be other causes for them overheating? What @servodude said above about inductive loads piqued my interest. If that might be a problem what sort of devices should I be treating with suspicion? Fridges? Washing machines? Fans? Microwaves? Any other likely causes for the failures? We have tried a variety of brands with similar results.

Assuming we find an inductive-load culprit or similar, and given we have a 3-phase supply, would it help to put all the lighting circuits on one phase (maybe along with less-used plug circuits or harmless appliances) and everything else on the other two phases? Or is that ill-advised -- sparky might know, @csearl? Is there a protective device we could install on that phase to help the LEDs?


Grateful for any advice...


GS
EDIT: maybe drilling ventilation holes in the ceiling units would help with cooling?

Be careful. If the units have a fire or environment rating it will no longer be valid if it's modified. More of a concern for fire rating really or damp ingress if in a wet-ish environment.