Careful who you support politically or who you are friends with

[Lootman]

it does make me laugh when boomers go on and on and on and on about "woke" etc..

Well I'm a boomer (born 1962) and I never go on about "woke" - its a pathetic, puerile term.

I am a boomer and do not use the term much. And it is a fairly recent word - I do not recall seeing or hearing it before a couple of years ago.

It is useful to have a generic term for people who are left or liberal leaning. But I think the term "woke" means (or has evolved into meaning) beliefs held not entirely sincerely but rather for effect or to look good. As such it sits alongside the phrase "virtue signalling" to describe someone who expresses ideological views for performative reasons in a "look how evolved and enlightened I am" kind of manner.

So it satirises someone who tries just a little too hard to convince us that he/she holds the moral high ground.

[XFool]

Well I'm a boomer (born 1962) and I never go on about "woke" - its a pathetic, puerile term.

I am a boomer and do not use the term much. And it is a fairly recent word - I do not recall seeing or hearing it before a couple of years ago.

It is useful to have a generic term for people who are left or liberal leaning. But I think the term "woke" means (or has evolved into meaning) beliefs held not entirely sincerely but rather for effect or to look good. As such it sits alongside the phrase "virtue signalling" to describe someone who expresses ideological views for performative reasons in a "look how evolved and enlightened I am" kind of manner.

So it satirises someone who tries just a little too hard to convince us that he/she holds the moral high ground.

There surely must be a parallel word for people who are right or authoritarian leaning? There needs to be...

oblivious? retired? somnolent? somnambulant? unaware?

[GoSeigen]

I am a boomer and do not use the term much. And it is a fairly recent word - I do not recall seeing or hearing it before a couple of years ago.

It is useful to have a generic term for people who are left or liberal leaning. But I think the term "woke" means (or has evolved into meaning) beliefs held not entirely sincerely but rather for effect or to look good. As such it sits alongside the phrase "virtue signalling" to describe someone who expresses ideological views for performative reasons in a "look how evolved and enlightened I am" kind of manner.

So it satirises someone who tries just a little too hard to convince us that he/she holds the moral high ground.

The sneering bad faith in this depiction is nauseating.

Rather incredibly it unites both extreme right and extreme left in a demonisation of people who are happy to get along with everyone else. "The views of moderate people are performative and insincere." Talk about trying to take the moral high ground!


GS

[Lootman]

I am a boomer and do not use the term much. And it is a fairly recent word - I do not recall seeing or hearing it before a couple of years ago.

It is useful to have a generic term for people who are left or liberal leaning. But I think the term "woke" means (or has evolved into meaning) beliefs held not entirely sincerely but rather for effect or to look good. As such it sits alongside the phrase "virtue signalling" to describe someone who expresses ideological views for performative reasons in a "look how evolved and enlightened I am" kind of manner.

So it satirises someone who tries just a little too hard to convince us that he/she holds the moral high ground.

The sneering bad faith in this depiction is nauseating.

Rather incredibly it unites both extreme right and extreme left in a demonisation of people who are happy to get along with everyone else. "The views of moderate people are performative and insincere." Talk about trying to take the moral high ground!

No, it merely discounts the "oh look at me and how much I hate racism" mob from those who genuinely care about injustice and inequality.

[didds]

There surely must be a parallel word for people who are right or authoritarian leaning? There needs to be...

gammon?

[88V8]

It is useful to have a generic term for people who are left or liberal leaning. But I think the term "woke" means (or has evolved into meaning) beliefs held not entirely sincerely but rather for effect or to look good. As such it sits alongside the phrase "virtue signalling" to describe someone who expresses ideological views for performative reasons in a "look how evolved and enlightened I am" kind of manner.

So it satirises someone who tries just a little too hard to convince us that he/she holds the moral high ground.

The sneering bad faith in this depiction is nauseating.
Rather incredibly it unites both extreme right and extreme left in a demonisation of people who are happy to get along with everyone else. "The views of moderate people are performative and insincere." Talk about trying to take the moral high ground!

The people who decided that Farage should be debanked on the basis of their personal opinions of him have not proven to be on moral high ground.
They will likely lose their jobs or be moved sideways.

No doubt there are meritorious wokes, but on the whole I rather regard 'woke' as shorthand for the fascist lefty liberals who are so keen to tell us what to think, what to say and how to say it.

V8

[JohnB]

Brexit opposing party has bank account closed. The reason sounds fair to me.

Monzo said: “Like lots of banks, we do not accept any political parties as Monzo Business customers in the same way that we don’t currently accept trusts, clubs and a range of other organisations.

“In this case, the account wasn’t originally categorised as a political party.

“After this was identified and corrected, the customer was given notice that the account would be closed.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... nk-account

[Lootman]

Brexit opposing party has bank account closed. The reason sounds fair to me.

Monzo said: “Like lots of banks, we do not accept any political parties as Monzo Business customers in the same way that we don’t currently accept trusts, clubs and a range of other organisations.

“In this case, the account wasn’t originally categorised as a political party.

“After this was identified and corrected, the customer was given notice that the account would be closed.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... nk-account

"Miller said it was a “bigger issue” than the closure of Nigel Farage’s bank account"

Well, she would say that, wouldn't she?

At least Farage did not lie when applying for the account.

[Spet0789]

Well I'm a boomer (born 1962) and I never go on about "woke" - its a pathetic, puerile term.

I am a boomer and do not use the term much. And it is a fairly recent word - I do not recall seeing or hearing it before a couple of years ago.

It is useful to have a generic term for people who are left or liberal leaning. But I think the term "woke" means (or has evolved into meaning) beliefs held not entirely sincerely but rather for effect or to look good. As such it sits alongside the phrase "virtue signalling" to describe someone who expresses ideological views for performative reasons in a "look how evolved and enlightened I am" kind of manner.

So it satirises someone who tries just a little too hard to convince us that he/she holds the moral high ground.

Please let’s not import the US meaning of liberal.

In the U.K. liberal means you believe in the freedom of the individual above the power of the state. It means low taxes, a smaller state, pro-business, pro free trade, strong property rights, protection of personal freedoms to live and let live.

The Conservatives used to be liberal under Thatcher, Major and Cameron before they went mad and turned into the English National Socialists, trying to pander to a coalition of authoritarians and clueless former Labour voters.

Being liberal is nothing like being left wing. Left wingers can be summed up by “the government knows best and can pay for it with someone else’s money”.

[Lootman]

I am a boomer and do not use the term much. And it is a fairly recent word - I do not recall seeing or hearing it before a couple of years ago.

It is useful to have a generic term for people who are left or liberal leaning. But I think the term "woke" means (or has evolved into meaning) beliefs held not entirely sincerely but rather for effect or to look good. As such it sits alongside the phrase "virtue signalling" to describe someone who expresses ideological views for performative reasons in a "look how evolved and enlightened I am" kind of manner.

So it satirises someone who tries just a little too hard to convince us that he/she holds the moral high ground.

Please let’s not import the US meaning of liberal.

In the U.K. liberal means you believe in the freedom of the individual above the power of the state. It means low taxes, a smaller state, pro-business, pro free trade, strong property rights, protection of personal freedoms to live and let live.

I was using the word "liberal" in more of an American sense of the word. It is further confused here because we have a Liberal Party that is not at all "liberal" in your sense of the word.

That said I would probably use "libertarian" to mean what you are saying, and us libertarians are not woke at all.

[Spet0789]

Please let’s not import the US meaning of liberal.

In the U.K. liberal means you believe in the freedom of the individual above the power of the state. It means low taxes, a smaller state, pro-business, pro free trade, strong property rights, protection of personal freedoms to live and let live.

I was using the word "liberal" in more of an American sense of the word. It is further confused here because we have a Liberal Party that is not at all "liberal" in your sense of the word.

That said I would probably use "libertarian" to mean what you are saying, and us libertarians are not woke at all.

I would say that woke people and liberals hold the same views on issues like same sex relationships and racial discrimination. Woke people are louder (sometimes annoyingly, stridently so) in their desire to change society to reflect those views.

Libertarianism is a very extreme version of liberal. Liberals believe in smaller government. Libertarians believe in almost no government! Again, it’s an American thing really. No one in the U.K. is that daft.

The so called Orange book Liberal Democrats (Clegg, Alexander, Laws) were very closely aligned with my definition. They aligned nicely with Cameron and Osborne. The problem was that the LD vote was about 50% that grouping and 50% what I would describe as silly dreamers who probably align politically with Labour but prefer to smugly vote for a party who never has to make the real-world compromises inherent in holding power. For them it’s effectively a way of spoiling one’s ballot paper and being able to disagree with every government.

The Lib Dems got into power in the coalition. At the next election, the liberals were happy to vote for Cameron and Osborne and the silly lefties were so appalled that they had actually caught the car and elected a government which had to make real compromises (eg tuition fees) that they didn’t bother turning out or voted for the Greens.

[XFool]

There surely must be a parallel word for people who are right or authoritarian leaning? There needs to be...

gammon?

Oh yeah. Forgot that one.

[JohnB]

[ Left wingers can be summed up by “the government knows best and can pay for it with someone else’s money”.

You can believe in the state's obligation to intervene in the free market to correct injustice and be happy for the state to tax yourself personally to fund those interventions. The left accept the need to be taxed, the right's reluctance to do so comes across as selfish, as their philanthropy does not make up the difference, and charity does more for donkeys than the mentally ill.

[Lootman]

I am a boomer and do not use the term much. And it is a fairly recent word - I do not recall seeing or hearing it before a couple of years ago.

It is useful to have a generic term for people who are left or liberal leaning. But I think the term "woke" means (or has evolved into meaning) beliefs held not entirely sincerely but rather for effect or to look good. As such it sits alongside the phrase "virtue signalling" to describe someone who expresses ideological views for performative reasons in a "look how evolved and enlightened I am" kind of manner.

So it satirises someone who tries just a little too hard to convince us that he/she holds the moral high ground.

There surely must be a parallel word for people who are right or authoritarian leaning?

Interesting as I usually associate the word "authoritarian" with the Left. It connotes the idea of a strong central government.

The Right usually wants to see less government, not more of it. I know I do.

[Spet0789]

There surely must be a parallel word for people who are right or authoritarian leaning?

Interesting as I usually associate the word "authoritarian" with the Left. It connotes the idea of a strong central government.

The Right usually wants to see less government, not more of it. I know I do.

Normally, yes. That’s why true Conservatives like me have been so disgusted over the past 7 years with policies Tony Benn would have applauded. Hard Brexit, huge increase in red tape and the civil service, throwing money in all directions.

[servodude]

Normally, yes. That’s why true Conservatives like me have been so disgusted over the past 7 years with policies Tony Benn would have applauded. Hard Brexit, huge increase in red tape and the civil service, throwing money in all directions.

...telling banks who they need to do business with, pandering to populism!

Game's been a bogey since being "to the right" has aligned more with bigotry than financial probity; no matter how well those shoes fit some

[didds]

[
Being liberal is nothing like being left wing. Left wingers can be summed up by “the government knows best and can pay for it with someone else’s money”.

And right wingers can be summed up by "the government knows best and can fill the pockets of themselves and their supporters with someone else's money" presumably.

[Spet0789]

[
Being liberal is nothing like being left wing. Left wingers can be summed up by “the government knows best and can pay for it with someone else’s money”.

And right wingers can be summed up by "the government knows best and can fill the pockets of themselves and their supporters with someone else's money" presumably.

No, that’s just corruption. It’s certainly been a feature of Boris’s English National Socialists but it’s found on both the left and the right - more so on the left in my view as left wing governments have their snouts in a larger pot of tax revenue.

[Lootman]

Normally, yes. That’s why true Conservatives like me have been so disgusted over the past 7 years with policies Tony Benn would have applauded. Hard Brexit, huge increase in red tape and the civil service, throwing money in all directions.

...telling banks who they need to do business with, pandering to populism!

Game's been a bogey since being "to the right" has aligned more with bigotry than financial probity; no matter how well those shoes fit some

Plenty of bigots on the Left as well. Labour has supporters who are prejudiced against women, Jews or anyone with money.

And then there was Stalin and Mao of course, who went further and murdered anyone they didn't like.

[UncleEbenezer]

And it's not just the banks that are at it. Also HMG.

I wonder if this is the long-anticipated permeation of ex-University wokes into public life.
Nothing good to see here

The way I recall it, political correctness started permeating educational institutions around 1990. The folks who were at an impressionable age back then are coming into positions of power and influence now, just as the less woke-infested boomers retire. Coincidence?

Nonsense. My dad (who was a lecturer) complained bitterly of it as far back as I can remember - to around the heady days of the late 1960s. Tom Sharpe wrote bitingly of it in the 1970s. And by the time I entered it (1979), we had a backlash against political correctness that saw my college elect a paid-up Young Conservative as JCR president, among other things.