THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Any other investment discussions eg. peer to peer lending
TheCornishman
Posts: 14
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 1:24 pm

THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby TheCornishman » November 16th, 2016, 7:50 pm

An Explanation

This thread is intended to act as a continuing-forum for those migrating across from The Motley Fool (TMF) board of TCFF.

It is not exclusive to those poor, lost, souls however; all are welcome! I just ask that you spend a few minutes reading the below to get a sense of what this particular little piece of the web is hoping to achieve.

Those who have an interest in the history may wish to review some of the posts on that board, whilst they remain available: http://boards.fool.co.uk/thecornishmans ... mendations

This ‘Best of…’ highlights-list will hopefully give a flavour of what we were trying to do. TCFF may not have been the busiest of boards on TMF but it did seem to earn a degree of respect for the tone and quality of its posts and I would hope we could continue that here.

However, whilst the past will hopefully act as prologue, it does remain the past. So the question is what, practically, does this new forum wish to achieve moving forward?

When TCFF was established we set out these goals:

Please lets try and stick to nice, civil, thoughtful, discussion based around the analysis of company's fundamentals. Not that I am suggesting this is the only approach to use, but for other methods there are other boards around the place.

That seems like a good point to continue from.

We didn’t know it when TCFF was established, at the turn of the millennium, but in retrospect it seems that board (as well as today’s investors), was destined to live through interesting times; a bear market & technology crash from 2000-2003, a major market recovery from 2003-2007 including a substantial resources boom, a financial crisis 2007-2009, the virtual elimination of interest rates & the advent of quantitative easing, the post 2009 recovery, the US Flash Crash and more recently a resources slump. All this in the context of a prolonged low-inflation environment and an ongoing bond bull market.

This is to say nothing of wars, terrorist attacks, elections, four Prime Ministers and no doubt many other events that I am neglecting to mention, which might well have seemed to be of almost overwhelming importance to investors as they were occurring. They usually did to me. But as Benjamin Graham once quoted ‘through chances various, through all vicissitudes, we make our way…’

In case you are wondering by now – and nobody would blame you - I mention all of this by way of context.

A recent review of TCFF whilst thinking how to respond to the announcement of the closure of the TMF boards suggested to me that one area where it had enjoyed unusual success was in identifying what have turned out to be some very profitable, but overlooked, investment propositions that have prospered despite these changing investment seasons. Companies such as; Churchill China, James Latham, Portmeirion, FW Thorpe, Linx Printing Tech, James Halstead, 4-Imprint, Broadcastle, Primary Health Properties, Carr’s Milling, Victoria, Lincat, Dewhurst, Vibroplant and Colefax. I think it is true to say that these were opportunities that were not getting a lot of attention on any other message boards at the time; not because there was anything wrong with them, nor because they didn't display some ‘value’ credentials, but more likely than not it was simply because their perceived outlooks were all relatively uninspiring when compared to other opportunities that were contemporaneously available, in what were considered more fashionable sectors at the time.

To sum it up, they seemed a bit dull. With the benefit of hindsight though, their performances have been anything but, when considered from a longer-term perspective. These investment tortoises have beaten many an apparent hare.

So that's the goal here. To consider candidates that might not look out of place amongst that list.

What doesn't pass the test: If the share price is leaping up by multiple percent day after day, that is probably not boring; if the investment proposition is based on a possible takeover, that is definitely not boring; if the company is very frequently being discussed on other bulletin boards, it is very unlikely to be boring. Macro-discussion, sector flag-waving, and technical analysis are far too complicated and exciting for here.

I am not trying to suggest that it’s impossible to make money out of propositions that fail this ‘boring’ test. Far from it. If you’ve found a method that works for you with these types of ideas then that’s terrific. I simply ask that you post messages about them someplace else. They are too racy for here and on this thread boring is good. We like boring.

We especially like ‘boring’ when it’s on sale. ‘Value’ strategies have been shown to work, on a portfolio basis, time and time again, so we do ask that any shares discussed here are displaying some signs of value; a low P/E ratio for instance when combined with reasonably consistent profitability; a healthy balance sheet with only moderate gearing; a respectable & historically reliable yield; strong cash flow are the kinds of things we would look for. I do not wish to set too stringent criteria for what constitutes ‘value,’ but there should be at least some please.

That's probably enough for now. Please do forgive the long introduction. The aim is simply to try and keep discussions here focused to the kind of thing that I know some people will be interested in. Thank you for your patience in getting this far.

One last thing, just as an FYI. Civility is another thing that we like, so I have asked anyone joining from TCFF to help act as moderators of the tone. I am sure they will do so with courtesy and a light-touch.

With that, it’s over to you…

TC

TheCornishman
Posts: 14
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 1:24 pm

MURGITROYD GROUP

Postby TheCornishman » November 18th, 2016, 1:00 am

MURGITROYD GROUP

http://www.murgitroydgroup.com

AIM Listed (since 2001) firm of Intellectual Property, Patent and Trademark Attorneys with offices across Europe and in the USA.

SLH Data from Sept 2016 Final Results to 31 May 2016

Market Cap: £45.5m
Gearing: Net cash of £2.8m
PER: 13.7x
PSR: 1.08x
PBV: 1.49x
PTBV: 2.94x
ROCE: 13.93%
PCF: 12.97x
Yield: 3.4%

Results Highlights

http://www.investegate.co.uk/murgitroyd ... 00104889J/

Revenue increased to £42.2m (2015: £39.8m)
Profit before income tax increased to £4.29m (2015: £4.16m)
Basic earnings per share increased to 35.4p (2015: 35.0p)
Proposed final dividend of 11.25p per share, giving a total dividend for the year of 16p (2015: 14.75p), an increase of 8.5% year on year


Ian Murgitroyd, Chairman of Murgitroyd Group PLC said:

I am pleased to be able to report an increase in pre-tax profits together with another year of record revenues. We continue to see good growth in the USA which remains the main focus of business development activity for the Group. It is the largest source of European Patent applications and our growing presence there offsets continuing weaker European demand, including in the UK. The geographic spread of our activities and customer base however puts us in a strong position to counter any weakness in individual markets.

These results reinforce the Group's ability to deliver sustainable and long-term growth, which combined with strong cash position, underpins the Board's commitment to a continued progressive dividend policy.


COMMENTS

I don't indeed to say too much about any companies I post about. I'm not trying to persuade anyone, just sharing what I think might be suitable candidates that I find. I came across Murgitroyd recently, liked what I saw and took a position. The shares have fallen off since the results, for no apparent reason. Trading seems to be plodding along; this is not a high-growth share at the moment and I'm not entirely convinced that the shares aren't trading closer to fair-value rather than being demonstrably cheap, but I'm not finding too many terribly cheap, boring, shares right now. I do think it is worthily-dull though.

Worth noting that the Murgitroyd family has two members on the board of directors and own a significant stake in the company.

Hopefully that gives you enough of a flavour to allow you to decide whether you wish to do your own research or not...

Regards,

TC

Carcosa
Posts: 49
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Re: MURGITROYD GROUP

Postby Carcosa » November 18th, 2016, 5:24 am

TheCornishman wrote:MURGITROYD GROUP

... I am pleased to be able to report an increase in pre-tax profits together with another year of record revenues...


Whilst turnover has been progressing very nicely indeed it does not seem to be translating into profits. They seem to be running very hard just to stand still. Cash flow is commendable and they have paid down debt considerably over the years.

Code: Select all

Year              2010  2011  2012  2013  2014  2015  2016
 
Turnover          29.4  33.2  35.7    36  38.4  39.8  42.2
Gross profit      18.3  19.9  20.9  22.1  22.1  22.1  22.7
Operating profit     4   4.2   4.5   4.7   4.1   4.2   4.3
Pre-tax profit     3.8     4   4.4   4.6   4.1   4.2   4.3
EPS normalised    30.8  30.4  35.8  37.5  32.5  34.5    35
EBIT                 4   4.2   4.5   4.7   4.1   4.2   4.3
EBITDA             4.2   4.4   4.8   4.9   4.4   4.5   4.6
Number of shares   8.5   8.5   8.6   8.9   8.9   8.9     9


Unless there is some catalyst that I am unable to see the share price seems to suggest it is valuing the company fairly IMO

Carcosa

Clariman
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby Clariman » November 18th, 2016, 10:05 am

Hi All

It has been suggested that the Murgitroyd discussion might be more appropriate for the Share Ideas board. I didn't inhabit these boards on TMF, so would be interested if there is a consensus view here?

Clariman

Soicowboyy
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby Soicowboyy » November 18th, 2016, 10:31 am

Well, I suppose the whole thread could be put on the share ideas board, but to post as individual ideas sort of defeats the object IMHO.
TCAFF had a particular character on the Fool and I hope something similar can be reproduced on this thread.

I was just looking in to briefly post about a suitably boring company:

HML Holdings (HMLH).

A property manager which uses profit/cash to buy other property managers and hence grow at an unextraodinary rate over time.

Price - 34p
MC = £13M
PE = 12.1 (ttm)
PB = 1.25 (lots of Goodwill)
Net Gearing = 14%
Historic Yield = 1%
Div cover x8

Dull but reliable - story of my life!

NonAnon
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Joined: November 18th, 2016, 10:33 am

Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby NonAnon » November 18th, 2016, 10:49 am

Clariman wrote:It has been suggested that the Murgitroyd discussion might be more appropriate for the Share Ideas board


How bizarre. I think you can safely ignore that suggestion since the whole purpose of TC's Green Room topic is to discuss certain shares as laid out in the initial post.

TheCornishman
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Joined: November 5th, 2016, 1:24 pm

Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby TheCornishman » November 18th, 2016, 11:09 am

I have replied to Clariman by PM.

Just to clarify, I do understand that the structure of Boring Investment might be considered a touch sub-optimal (to my mind at least) right now. It would be infinitely preferable for each company discussed to have its own thread, for instance.

But whilst our 'New Board' request is being considered, I did want to provide a destination for TCFF'ers to migrate to before TMF shut up shop - hence starting BI as a 'Topic.'

Entirely up to Clariman and Stooz how they wish to structure the new boards though, but here's hoping...

TC

simoan
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby simoan » November 18th, 2016, 11:32 am

TheCornishman wrote:I have replied to Clariman by PM.

Just to clarify, I do understand that the structure of Boring Investment might be considered a touch sub-optimal (to my mind at least) right now. It would be infinitely preferable for each company discussed to have its own thread, for instance.

But whilst our 'New Board' request is being considered, I did want to provide a destination for TCFF'ers to migrate to before TMF shut up shop - hence starting BI as a 'Topic.'

Entirely up to Clariman and Stooz how they wish to structure the new boards though, but here's hoping...

TC

Hi TC,

Well I'm encouraged by the boringness of the two companies mentioned already... I am struggling to hold back the need to yawn. It's up to others where the board ends up and I do hope it gets its own home rather than being a single thread. It's definitely an investing strategy and so until such time as it gets it's own board it's probably just as well here as anywhere else.

Thanks for reminding me about MUR. It's never really been on my radar - it always looks fairly priced and never screams "buy", but I guess that should be the case for qualifying as boring!

All the best, Si

mc2fool
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby mc2fool » November 18th, 2016, 1:27 pm

NonAnon wrote:
Clariman wrote:It has been suggested that the Murgitroyd discussion might be more appropriate for the Share Ideas board


How bizarre. I think you can safely ignore that suggestion since the whole purpose of TC's Green Room topic is to discuss certain shares as laid out in the initial post.

Maybe so, but the whole purpose of this board (if it follows from its predecessor) is to discuss Investment Strategies - the clue is in the name ;) - not individual shares, per se, and as such the initial post is itself really a misfit for this board.

There was (almost) no discussion of individual shares on the TMF Investment Strategies board. Of course, some would inevitably be mentioned occasionally but only as part of a strategy discussion, and much more often if any individual investment was discussed it was collectives and in reference to their investment strategies (e.g. "smart beta" ETFs, trackers, etc).

It does seem that the OP would much prefer a TCFF board and certainly his preference (which I fully understand) for an individual topic for each company really would be a far departure from what Investment Strategies has been for and about, historically at least. So I support his call for a TCFF board so that they and Investment Strategies can each have their own space...

UncleEbenezer
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Re: MURGITROYD GROUP

Postby UncleEbenezer » November 18th, 2016, 3:12 pm

TheCornishman wrote:AIM Listed (since 2001) firm of Intellectual Property, Patent and Trademark Attorneys with offices across Europe and in the USA.


Brexit?

Trump?

Their market is looking fragmented. Will there still be a budget for them, from companies without an in-house team?

TheCornishman
Posts: 14
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 1:24 pm

Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby TheCornishman » November 18th, 2016, 6:17 pm

mc2fool wrote:It does seem that the OP would much prefer a TCFF board and certainly his preference (which I fully understand) for an individual topic for each company really would be a far departure from what Investment Strategies has been for and about, historically at least. So I support his call for a TCFF board so that they and Investment Strategies can each have their own space...


Hey mc2fool,

Apologies if I have parked our caravan in the wrong place! My reasoning was that 'Boring Shares' seemed to be an Investment Strategy and when I saw another TMF Personal Board (Paulypilot's Pub) had relocated here, I assumed (wrongly perhaps) that this was the best place for the Boring Discussion to start.

I heard back from Clariman who said he was happy with how things are for now (this morning at least) but they would be reviewing board structure next week. So if we can beg the Investing Strategies folks' indulgence for just a little while longer, hopefully the issue will get resolved then and if we are moved-on, the 'Topic' can be deleted and it'll be like we were never here...hopefully that's acceptable?

Apologies again though. No offence intended.

Very best,

TC

mc2fool
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby mc2fool » November 18th, 2016, 7:33 pm

TheCornishman wrote:Hey mc2fool,

Apologies if I have parked our caravan in the wrong place! My reasoning was that 'Boring Shares' seemed to be an Investment Strategy and when I saw another TMF Personal Board (Paulypilot's Pub) had relocated here, I assumed (wrongly perhaps) that this was the best place for the Boring Discussion to start.

Ah, but (with one single exception, the family folio) the TMF Investment Strategies was for the discussion of investment strategies, never the actual putting them into use! :lol: If you're not familiar with the old board you might take a look at it to see what I mean. When it comes down to the actual real life implementation of strategies TMF always had individual boards (e.g. HYP, Value, GARP, etc).

In regards to Paulypilot's Pub, I was never a denizen but I note that in the topic of that name in this forum the posters (not me) are saying it should probably go to the share ideas board!

I heard back from Clariman who said he was happy with how things are for now (this morning at least) but they would be reviewing board structure next week. So if we can beg the Investing Strategies folks' indulgence for just a little while longer, hopefully the issue will get resolved then and if we are moved-on, the 'Topic' can be deleted and it'll be like we were never here...hopefully that's acceptable?

Apologies again though. No offence intended.

No offence taken and no apology needed, TC -- and if it sounded like I was offended I apologise for that! The boards are clearly going through a growing and settling down phase and transitions and temporary homes are to be expected and accepted -- and IIRC, phpBB (the lemonfool board software) allows posts to be moved between forums (something the TMF software couldn't do), so hopefully none of the topic will need to be deleted, just moved to your new home :D

TheCornishman
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Joined: November 5th, 2016, 1:24 pm

Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby TheCornishman » November 19th, 2016, 10:39 am

mc2fool wrote:No offence taken and no apology needed, TC -- and if it sounded like I was offended I apologise for that! The boards are clearly going through a growing and settling down phase and transitions and temporary homes are to be expected and accepted -- and IIRC, phpBB (the lemonfool board software) allows posts to be moved between forums (something the TMF software couldn't do), so hopefully none of the topic will need to be deleted, just moved to your new home


Great! Hopefully all's well that ends well then. I think I was guilty of a little ignorance (it won't be the last time!), being constrained for time (before TMF closed) and either an overly- or underly- (not sure which, but either way 'incorrect') literal interpretation of the Investing Strategies idea.

Hopefully the fact that there has been some discussion on the Boring Investment topic now and with the clarity that it seems to be in the wrong place will encourage the creation of a better-located permanent home. And thanks for the tip-off about the software; it would be nicer if we did not have to start again from scratch, so that's encouraging.

Very best,

TC

Dod1010
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby Dod1010 » November 19th, 2016, 11:10 am

On the subject of boring companies, I hold Carr's Group (as it is now known) and Primary Health Properties. We could add Arbuthnott Banking which I also hold. Also boring but it has thrown off a lot of cash this year and despite that the share price is still up.

Not so sure about PHP but the other two (and I could add Daejan) have good culture, a long term outlook and very conservative. the sort of thing usually found in family owned businesses, which Arbuthnott and Daejan basically are.

This Board seems to me to be quite a good idea for those of us like me, who just want to park money in a secure spot and leave it to gently accumulate

deucetoace
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby deucetoace » November 20th, 2016, 6:07 pm

Pleased to have found the successor to TCFF. I rarely posted (which was in part the point) and gave up on TMF a year or so ago anyhow but often popped in. I hope this will continue TCFF & be separate to a general board posting on individual shares.

TheCornishman
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Joined: November 5th, 2016, 1:24 pm

Re: MURGITROYD GROUP

Postby TheCornishman » November 21st, 2016, 2:03 pm

Thanks to everyone who has posted favourable comments about TCFF and/or the idea behind this new incarnation. Much appreciated.

Lots of comments about Murgitroyd too:

Hard to disagree with Carcosa & Simoan that the value is not as deep as one might ideally like in this case. When considering candidates for my first Boring Investment idea, I reviewed my own holdings and came up with five candidates; Murgitroyd, Avesco, International Greetings, Concurrent Technology and Cambria Autos. Avesco ruled themselves out by receiving a takeover (perhaps I should have chosen those the day before) and whilst Cambria Autos has more going for it in terms of value I think, I deemed it less boring given generalised concerns over the UK economy. The remaining three all seem reasonable candidates to me, but of these Murgitroyd seemed the most literally 'boring' and in order to try and set the right tone with the first idea, I plumped for those.

UncleEbenezer asked about Brexit & Trump. I wholeheartedly agree that these are both concerns. The company referenced Brexit in their recent results:

Notwithstanding the uncertainty resulting from the EU referendum vote, including but not limited to the consequential volatility seen in foreign exchange markets, and the continuing, broader, macro-economic challenges to be addressed across Europe, we remain encouraged by our ability to win new business, particularly in the USA, and are committed to the delivery of sustainable higher earnings as well as increased revenue over the longer term.

I simply have no idea how these things will play out in the medium-term but looking back over the past fifteen years, Murgitroyd appear to have been able to weather changing circumstances in a reasonable fashion. My personal approach is to take an opening-position and then add to it or reverse it as subsequent results provide more data and that's what I've done here.

When I look at Dod1010's post, I see names I have held in the past but moved-on from as a result of finding apparently deeper (but lower-quality) value elsewhere or because of my 'insights' over macro-economic conditions. On the whole I suspect I might have been better doing nothing.

Thanks again for the comments.

Soicowboyy mentioned HML Holdings: I haven't had chance to have a really good look at these yet, but they have been added to my Watchlist for further research. An initial, cursory, glance tends to suggest to me that they are entirely UK focused; these are situations I have avoided since the Brexit vote uncertainty began in the summer, but perhaps it is time to revisit that now given that the world has continued to turn. On the whole though I would prioritise situations where there is some geographical diversity of operations, but that's a personal preference and not something that I would see as a necessary-condition of 'boringness.'

Regards,

TC

IronPyrites
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby IronPyrites » December 4th, 2016, 11:39 pm

Hi All

First post on Lemon Fool and where better to start.
Great to see that TCFF has found a new home here – but not sure why it needs to be shouting out its presence ;-)
By coincidence TMF folded the month I retired from clinical practice – so a double bereavement. On the other hand also a new beginning and a chance to spend more time in the Green Room rather than the Red which has been my failing on many occasions :-)
So many thanks to Dave for taking some action to get things started here – I’m afraid I missed the final discussions on the TCFF board before it was closed.
Like WCB I have lurked more than posted in recent years and interestingly have also recently been investing a pension lump sum mainly in Investment Trusts giving my portfolio a greater global exposure as well as some specialised focus (private equity, biochemical).
I still run a smaller small cap Value/Garp portfolio and a larger no tinker HY portfolio.

Currently MrsP and I are on a post retirement holiday or should that be vacation as we are following in the footsteps of Bill Bryson and walking in the Appalachians and driving along the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina.
Britain and America – two countries divided by a common language.

So how can I contrive to align this post with ‘boring – Green Room’ investing?
I was mulling this over as we plodded along well marked trails through acres of forest trees, fallen leaves thick on the ground and a multitude of Autumn colours (Fall colors). I think best, though that’s not saying much, when I walk.
So there we have it – moving steadily, through a repetitive (and attractive) landscape towards a final and enriching goal, avoiding any of this yomping iron man stuff or extreme fell running malarkey, observing my surroundings carefully and avoiding bears ;-) Surely a perfect description of an outdoors Green Room and this thread's aim?

Promise to do a more share orientated post once home – if I have time amongst other numerous retirement plans :-)

Best regards to all
Iron

simoan
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Gattaca Plc (GATC) - It's a Square One!

Postby simoan » December 10th, 2016, 1:01 pm

Hi all,

Well, I've finally found some time to post in the Green Room. I've been buying a few things recently, most notably Character Group (CCT), Ricardo (RCDO), Revolutions Bars (RBG) and this week Gattaca (GATC).

Gattaca is a primarily UK focused recruitment company that specialises in the engineering and technology sector. It has recently renamed itself following the acquisition by Matchtech of Networkers International. FWIW I don't normally like rebranding exercises because it's usually driven by a need to cover up a murky past! However, that's not the case here, and is probably only an act of charity towards a Branding Consultant. That aside, the current fundies (courtesy of MorningStar) are as follows:

Price: 295p
Market Cap: £92m
Net Gearing: 30.65%
PER: 7.24x
PSR: 0.15x
PTBV: 2.9x
ROCE: 26.12%
PCF: 6.26x
Yield: 7.97%
Div Cover: 1.7x

Last results (03/11/2016): http://www.investegate.co.uk/gattaca-pl ... 00091940O/

The results were flat on the previous year, so nothing to write home about but they show a significant reduction in debt (mainly as a consequence of the Networkers acquisition) and a 5% increase in the dividend. Of further note, and the reason for my investment last week were some buys by the CEO and Chairman:

http://www.investegate.co.uk/gattaca-pl ... 24163261R/

Clearly the management have some confidence and these are significant amounts in relation to their basic salary (CEO is £568k and Chairman £67k). Given the low rating one can only assume that the market is expecting a full blown UK recession next year, but with the likely increase in infrastructure spending by the UK government, the engineering recruitment sector is likely to be a beneficiary. It's also worth noting that International revenues are growing, so an increase in infrastructure spending in the US should also benefit the company's revenues, not to mention the current weakness in Sterling.

Anyway, I hope engineering recruitment is not too exciting for the Green Room :)

All the best, Si

BobGe
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Joined: November 5th, 2016, 12:49 am

Re: Tyman (TYMN)

Postby BobGe » December 11th, 2016, 3:36 am

Tyman should qualify as pretty boring, they make window seals, locks, door furniture. They call them 'engineered components' to add a bit of excitement. http://www.tymanplc.com/

Quite a bit of their activity is in the US and some in Europe. Reporting in Sterling, they don't seem to have seen much of a 'brexit re-rating' so far. They seem to understate and perform just a little better. Smallish but growing divi.

Quicklink to RNS history inc. November trading update.
http://www.investegate.co.uk/Index.aspx ... words=tymn

Formally Lupus Capital, Greg Hutchings' vehicle before he 'upset' a few people and was relieved.

jackdaww
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby jackdaww » December 11th, 2016, 9:52 am

Clariman wrote:Hi All

It has been suggested that the Murgitroyd discussion might be more appropriate for the Share Ideas board. I didn't inhabit these boards on TMF, so would be interested if there is a consensus view here?

Clariman


=======================

yes , i thought the shares ideas board was for any discussion on any share .

but i am quite happy to look at this board , and others , also .

and many thanks for TLF - its better!

. :D


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