THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Any other investment discussions eg. peer to peer lending
simoan
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Re: Tyman (TYMN)

Postby simoan » December 11th, 2016, 2:32 pm

BobGe wrote:Tyman should qualify as pretty boring, they make window seals, locks, door furniture. They call them 'engineered components' to add a bit of excitement. http://www.tymanplc.com/

Quite a bit of their activity is in the US and some in Europe. Reporting in Sterling, they don't seem to have seen much of a 'brexit re-rating' so far. They seem to understate and perform just a little better. Smallish but growing divi.

Quicklink to RNS history inc. November trading update.
http://www.investegate.co.uk/Index.aspx ... words=tymn

Formally Lupus Capital, Greg Hutchings' vehicle before he 'upset' a few people and was relieved.

The only thing that puts me off Tyman is the large amount of Intangibles on the balance sheet. I assume a lot of this is maybe goodwill from acquisitions? NTAV is negative at -20p per share which is a black mark for me. Otherwise, it looks reasonably priced on a 2017 PER of ~11, a more than twice covered devidend and 3.9% forecast yield. Thanks for bringing it up.

All the best, Si

MDW1954
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby MDW1954 » December 11th, 2016, 6:13 pm

Hi folks (and especially TheCornishman),

I used to pop into TCFF on TMF -- I never posted, as I'm generally more HYP-ish, but read most of the posts in recent years.

I'm also a moderator here on LemonFool, and very happy to help you folks find a suitable home here on LemonFool. If you think a separate board or sub-board would help, that's a discussion that can be had. If you'd rather stay as a thread, fine.

I came to this rather late, as the establishment of LemonFool etc has coincided with a period of manic workload prior to some keyhole surgery which takes place tomorrow.

Now that I know you're here I'll be popping in more often!

Some of you may know me as a writer on Monevator and also Motley Fool. I took the decision to "out" myself on LemonFool as I like to be completely transparent about these things.

MDW1954

Moderator Message:
Posted by moderator

BobGe
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Re: Tyman (TYMN)

Postby BobGe » December 13th, 2016, 2:13 am

simoan wrote:The only thing that puts me off Tyman is the large amount of Intangibles on the balance sheet. I assume a lot of this is maybe goodwill from acquisitions?

To be honest, I've not looked closely but that would make sense. I bought a few when they were knocked down to pence in the Lupus days. I was just noting that the s/p doesn't seem to have reflected recent forex shifts although there might be another reason behind that. Or perhaps it's just off the radar. A lot of what appears to be automated trading seems to make it quite liquid. Perhaps not one to hold if you expect a construction downturn as a result of higher interest rates.

TheCornishman
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby TheCornishman » January 9th, 2017, 3:27 pm

A belated happy new year to you all!

I see since my last post that we have not only enjoyed strong markets but have also been moved to a new berth, so thank you to the hosts for that (the latter anyway, not sure how much they had to do with the former!)

Hopefully this new arrangement works better for both BIGR's and the Investment Strategy crowd.

A touch disappointed that it still won't be possible to create new BIGR threads per company discussed, but some day perhaps...

If I understand recent developments correctly I also believe that we may now have a moderator. I’d hope we won’t trouble them too much in the future, but if they are reading please do feel free to introduce yourself so that people know who not to upset.

Great to see new posters / old friends arrive!

Some very interesting companies discussed already. Like Simoan I have been allocated some funds into Character Group after their positive results in December. The Avesco takeover threw up some funds to be rehoused, so Character and Petrofac have been new holdings added for me. I am kicking myself for dawdling over Ricardo back in the summer and now even more depressed having gone back and looked at Revolution Bars, which I personally discounted as being too racy in the autumn. Two stellar decisions right there. There will be more, of that I am sure.

I have also added a top-up to my IG Design holding, which might well warrant a substantive post in the near future. I don’t think that company looks outrageously expensive at the moment despite having had a very good year, they seem bullish on current trading and yet the shares have dipped since the recent results. That’s the kind of top-up opportunity I like.

And Latham got restored to full weighting after their very good interims. I had reduced these in light of the Brexit result, but there is no sign of any deterioration in trading just yet it seems.

I still wonder what the medium-term effect of that vote will be and whilst that discussion is too ‘macro-‘ for here I think, I continue to favour stocks with a decent amount of overseas turnover for new holdings. Whether that will turn out to be the correct longer-term strategy, only time will tell…

Good to see HML Holdings going from strength to strength for Soicowboyy. Both they and Tyman look interesting to me and really not terribly exciting, which is nice. Both now sit in my watch-list along with Carr’s & Arbuthnott.

Finally, for now, on behalf of all here may I wish IronP a very happy retirement and I do hope you had a wonderful holiday.

PinkDalek
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Latham in The Boring Investment Green Room

Postby PinkDalek » January 9th, 2017, 4:15 pm

TheCornishman wrote: ...

A touch disappointed that it still won't be possible to create new BIGR threads per company discussed, but some day perhaps...



You can always start a new Topic here, entitled such as "TBIGR - Latham" or change the subject header within the thread (as I have done above). That having been said, any new post on your existing Topic becomes readily noticeable for those who've subscribed to or bookmarked the Topic and for casual readers of "Other Investing".


And Latham got restored to full weighting after their very good interims. I had reduced these in light of the Brexit result, but there is no sign of any deterioration in trading just yet it seems.


I topped up my fledgling ISA, AIM, potential IHT business relief saving, Latham mini portfolio a little before Christmas. I think that's the first time I've ever chased a knife that was defying gravity and increased my cost per share.

That having been said, I didn't read the Half Yearly report as positively as you appear to have done as I struggled with the Current and future trading paragraph:

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exch ... 45019.html

PinkDalek
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Re: Latham in The Boring Investment Green Room

Postby PinkDalek » January 9th, 2017, 4:37 pm

PinkDalek wrote:You can always start a new Topic here, entitled such as "TBIGR - Latham" or change the subject header within the thread (as I have done above).


My apologies, I see from the earlier Murgitroyd posts you, TheCornishman, already know this!

TheCornishman
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IG Design Group

Postby TheCornishman » January 9th, 2017, 5:34 pm

IG DESIGN GROUP (was International Greetings Group)

‪www.thedesigngroup.com

AIM Listed firm that designs and manufactures gift packaging, greetings stationery, creative play products and giftware.

SLH Data (Projected) from Jan 2017 Final Results to 29 June 2016

Shareprice: 251p
Market Cap: £157.2m
Gearing: 26% (Tangible: 49%)
PER: 15.9x
PEG: 0.5x
PSR: 0.66x
PBV: 2.31x
PTBV: 4.40x
ROCE: 13.40%
PCF: 9.26x
Yield: 1.59%

Results Highlights from November Interims

http://www.investegate.co.uk/ig-design- ... 00103573Q/

Sales up 21.5% to £145.5m at the half year from £119.8m
Gross profit up 40.8% to £30.8m from £21.9m
Operating profit before exceptional items and LTIP charges up 42.6% to £9.3m from £6.5m
PBT up 57.5% before exceptional items and LTIP charges to £8.2m from £5.2m
Underlying Earnings Per Share up 50.0% to 9.6p from 6.4p
Net Debt is £1.7m lower than in the prior year at £76.4m
Interim Dividend declared of 1.75p
Financial performance ahead of expectations, providing confidence for upgrading of annual dividend guidance

Outlook:

The Board is confident that the current rate of sales and gross margin will continue into the second half of the year, resulting in the annual financial performance of the Group now expected to be above current market forecasts. While the timing of overheads and the acquisition of Lang part way through the year (and so excluding loss making months) has slightly flattered H1 results at the levels of operating profit and below, we are also confident that the full year outlook for profit and our key underlying earnings per share metric will continue to outperform.


Post Christmas trading update: http://www.investegate.co.uk/ig-design- ... 00093883T/

COMMENTS

IG Design has been a holding of mine for the past year and has performed well since I first bought. They were one of the candidates for my initial BIGR write-up but I was concerned they had come too far too fast, despite what strikes me as an interesting, on-going, turnaround story of a company that is recovering from a relatively ‘exciting’ past (although wrapping-paper & Christmas crackers can only ever be so exciting surely?) Over-indebted in the run-up to the financial crisis, the share price collapsed around 95% despite revenue appearing to hold up quite well. Since then new management appears to have turned things around nicely by focusing on the basics. Since the ‘ahead-of-expectations’ outlook statement at the interim stage, the shares have dropped back from 290p to 250p despite a positive post-Christmas trading update. Directors own over 40% of the shares meaning that management and shareholder interests are nicely aligned. Miton Group, Schroders and Hargreave Hale also own 25% between them.

There is no doubt that these are not as cheap as they were when I first bought (and not helped by being up nearly 10% today for some reason I now see) but I still think they merit consideration in light of the positive noises coming out of the company and the appearance at least that the company has learned the lessons of the past.

Regards,

TC

TheCornishman
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Re: Latham in The Boring Investment Green Room

Postby TheCornishman » January 9th, 2017, 6:32 pm

Hi PinkDalek,

I topped up my fledgling ISA, AIM, potential IHT business relief saving, Latham mini portfolio a little before Christmas. I think that's the first time I've ever chased a knife that was defying gravity and increased my cost per share.

That having been said, I didn't read the Half Yearly report as positively as you appear to have done as I struggled with the Current and future trading paragraph:


Thanks and no problem re: the posting tips.

As for Latham, I read that statement as being cautiously conservative rather than 'worried.' Whilst not in-love, it is entirely possible I have an unhealthy crush on Latham's as an investment, so you may very well be correct. When I reduced I was worried about the sky falling-in and what I saw in the interims suggested that, at least, had not happened. Hence I was happy to restore the holding and adopt a watching brief. I seem to recall they had been similarly conservative previously and when one sees what kind of results they can make out of 'mixed' trading, I'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt.

It's not my largest holding by any stretch of the imagination, so more of a portfolio-management issue rather than a full-blooded recommendation.

Very best

TC

TheCornishman
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby TheCornishman » January 9th, 2017, 6:40 pm

MDW1954 wrote:Hi folks (and especially TheCornishman),

I used to pop into TCFF on TMF -- I never posted, as I'm generally more HYP-ish, but read most of the posts in recent years.

I'm also a moderator here on LemonFool, and very happy to help you folks find a suitable home here on LemonFool. If you think a separate board or sub-board would help, that's a discussion that can be had. If you'd rather stay as a thread, fine.

I came to this rather late, as the establishment of LemonFool etc has coincided with a period of manic workload prior to some keyhole surgery which takes place tomorrow.

Now that I know you're here I'll be popping in more often!

Some of you may know me as a writer on Monevator and also Motley Fool. I took the decision to "out" myself on LemonFool as I like to be completely transparent about these things.

MDW1954

Moderator Message:
Posted by moderator


Forgive me MDW1954, I completely missed your message when I posted earlier.

Glad to have you on board as moderator!

Please pass on our thanks to those responsible for resolving the 'Investment Strategies' issue and I hope we can bring you around to the idea of boringness in time (but only if it appears to work). HYP's are pretty boring too, so it's not a huge leap. Nor would I see the strategies as mutually-exclusive. Some of my most boring investments wouldn't look out of place in an HYP I'd guess.

Hope your operation went well and apologies again for not having responded to you sooner and then missing your post to boot.

Very best

TC

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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby LongbeardRanger » January 10th, 2017, 2:13 pm

Hello all,

I never came across TCFF on TMF - looks like I missed out. But the Boring Investment Green Room sounds like a great idea and, prompted by the trading update it issued today, I'd like to highlight one of the companies in my portfolio as possibly of interest.

NICHOLS PLC

http://www.nicholsplc.co.uk

AIM listed manufacturer and distributor of soft drinks, whose primary brands are Vimto, Sunkist and Levi Roots.

Figures from six months to June 2016 (ROCE and valuation multiples from trailing twelve months per Stockopedia data):

Shareprice: £15.90
Market Cap: £587m (EV of £554m due to net cash position)
Gearing: N/A - c£33m net cash

ROCE: 37%
Operating margin: 27%

Sales growth, last six months: 3.3%
EPS growth, last six months: 8.97%

PER: 25.5x
PEG: 4.27x
PSR: 5.29x
PTBV: 12.3x
PCF: 28x
PFCF: 31.7x
Yield: 1.67%

So....not cheap, certainly, but a very high quality business looking at measures such as return on capital, operating margin, gross margin, cash conversion and the like.

Earnings and dividends per share have increased at a near 15% per annum rate over the last five years.

In terms of more qualitative factors, the business operates in what I consider to be a good sector, selling a product that is a "small ticket consumer non-durable", i.e. doesn't cost much and gets used (drunk) quickly, with traditionally high brand loyalty. Peers such as A.G. Barr (owner of Irn-Bru) and Britvic demonstrate similar margins and returns on capital (Britvic actually realising lower margins, reflecting the fact that its brands have lower pricing power IMO).

Also, importantly (from a "boringness" perspective) Nichols is still part family owned - the chairman, John Nichols, being a descendent of the founder - and I very much like this presence of the owner's eye in the boardroom.

The business released a trading statement today, covering the full year to 31 December 2016:

https://otp.tools.investis.com/clients/ ... sid=834138

Overall a very positive update IMV, with the key bit being:

Group revenue for the year has increased by 7.3% totalling £117.3m (2015: £109.3m). The growth has come from both the UK and International business activities.

In the UK, sales have increased by 6.9% against the prior year to £90.7m (2015: £84.8m). This increase has been driven by sales of the Vimto brand, which were 5% ahead of the prior year, and the incremental revenues from the successful acquisition of The Noisy Drinks Co. Ltd. This performance is significantly ahead of the UK soft drinks market which grew by 0.8% in the year to 3 December 2016


A 7.3% sales increase is very good, and 5% growth of Vimto in the UK (when the overall soft drink market is more or less stagnant) is very very impressive.

Share price is down a bit today, probably because good expectations were baked into the, admittedly high, share price. They've basically hit expectations, but no more.

I hold, and it's not a company I'm adding to at today's valuation, but it is one that I would start to think about adding to on a pull back to say 20x earnings, on the basis of continued low growth in its UK business combined with the possibility of further success in exporting its brands round the world (Vimto already being popular in the Middle East, believe it or not!).

tjh290633
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby tjh290633 » January 10th, 2017, 7:08 pm

I went to a presentation, which included Nichols, last year. I have to say I was very impressed by their range of products, particularly the low sugar versions.

Pity the yield is so low.

TJH

MDW1954
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby MDW1954 » January 11th, 2017, 9:36 pm

More years ago than I care to remember, I toured Nichol's facilities as an "important visitor", having reasonably high-level discussions with the management team.

I was hugely impressed, but the shares were expensive.

But not as expensive as they have subsequently become!

There's a moral there somewhere...

MDW1954

LongbeardRanger
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby LongbeardRanger » January 12th, 2017, 11:01 am

MDW1954 wrote:More years ago than I care to remember, I toured Nichol's facilities as an "important visitor", having reasonably high-level discussions with the management team.

I was hugely impressed, but the shares were expensive.

But not as expensive as they have subsequently become!

There's a moral there somewhere...

MDW1954


Thanks, MDW1954 (and TJH as well) - very interesting.

Re your moral, my investment strategy is to (1) identify good companies, (2) buy their shares when they aren't stratospherically expensive, and then (3) hold on for the ride. I've found that (1) is by far the most important, more so than valuation - things that have done well for me were "expensive" by normal standards, and things that have done badly were often "cheap". So nowadays I only include a very crude valuation filter of asking myself whether or not the shares are crazily valued, rather than just expensive.

On that basis, Nichols are arguably still a "buy", although, as I said in my previous post, I'm not actually adding to my holding at present.

flyer61
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Re: THE BORING INVESTMENT GREEN ROOM

Postby flyer61 » January 13th, 2017, 9:16 am

Had a quick look. Nichols could be the sort of Company Terry Smith would like...except it is too expensive. At the right price.....

Britvic seems interesting as well. Do any fools have a view on it?


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