Is the NHS that bad?

[dave559]

There are four countries in the UK and there are four NHS services, which, despite the common name, aren't really related. Certainly the BBC "UK" news (in reality, mainly world and English news) seems to be currently telling a tale of the NHS in England in great difficulty, but I don't know how much that is an England-only issue or is also similarly happening in the other countries.

I'm certainly not aware of the same level of problems in Scotland (but BBC Scotland news is really mediocre (literally almost half of the programme is dedicated to sportsball, for goodness' sake)), but that doesn't necessarily mean that similar problems aren't perhaps also occurring elsewhere. I'm not of an age where myself or friends are very heavy users of the NHS, so I don't hear of many direct experience reports.

[absolutezero]

There are four countries in the UK and there are four NHS services, which, despite the common name, aren't really related. Certainly the BBC "UK" news (in reality, mainly world and English news) seems to be currently telling a tale of the NHS in England in great difficulty, but I don't know how much that is an England-only issue or is also similarly happening in the other countries.

I'm certainly not aware of the same level of problems in Scotland (but BBC Scotland news is really mediocre (literally almost half of the programme is dedicated to sportsball, for goodness' sake)), but that doesn't necessarily mean that similar problems aren't perhaps also occurring elsewhere. I'm not of an age where myself or friends are very heavy users of the NHS, so I don't hear of many direct experience reports.

You might want to use a reputable source of news instead...

[dave559]

I am indeed fast coming to that opinion…

[AWOL]

I am now in the ranks of the ancients but today I was impressed to get a letter from the NHS inviting me to come for another booster jab against Covid and to get my flu jab at the same time. The NHS has problems. We all know that, but as for Covid jabs they have been absolutely on the ball for me at least.

Bravo!

Dod

It's under pressure and from what my wife tells me they are really under strain and under-resourced. Throw in staff sickness with current COVID rates and it's a nightmare. Combine that with a backlog that predated the pandemic, then the pandemic induced backlog then things are bad in Scotland as well as England. The data shows it is a mess North and South of the Border. A lot of EU staff left during BREXIT. They didn't have to but they didn't feel welcome in UK anymore.

Ambulance service is overwhelmed here too.

The bottom line is we have good staff, and good processes but the system is the wrong size for the workload. We need to import more staff not less. We need to train more home grown but that won't have results for many years and we have for a long time relied on recruiting from abroad.,

My personal experiences as a patient have been good. We are also lucky in Scotland that patients were given a choice with cancer treatment during lockdown (if they were COVID negative) whereas I believe England stopped cancer treatment.

[Rhyd6]

Be thankful that you don't need the services of the Welsh NHS. Our local hospital trust is once more in "special measures", I don't know why I say once more as this seems to be a permanant state of affairs.
We are still waiting for our flu and covid jabs, hopefully we'll hear something soon. When our third booster jab was due we were requested to go to one of the local centres to receive our jab. I was somewhat surprised to be given my jab by a girl I know very well, she is a veterinary nurse at the vets we use. She informed me that anyone with any experience of giving injections had been co-opted to help out as the Welsh NHS couln't cope. Hopefully they didn't recruit anyone with experience of injecting "recreational" drugs

R6

[servodude]

Be thankful that you don't need the services of the Welsh NHS. Our local hospital trust is once more in "special measures", I don't know why I say once more as this seems to be a permanant state of affairs.
We are still waiting for our flu and covid jabs, hopefully we'll hear something soon. When our third booster jab was due we were requested to go to one of the local centres to receive our jab. I was somewhat surprised to be given my jab by a girl I know very well, she is a veterinary nurse at the vets we use. She informed me that anyone with any experience of giving injections had been co-opted to help out as the Welsh NHS couln't cope. Hopefully they didn't recruit anyone with experience of injecting "recreational" drugs

R6

I hope you weren't sent home wearing a cone

[Rhyd6]

Veering off topic re covid vaccines, we had an emergency at the local pub quiz last evening. One of our team collapsed, he has heart problems and is currently awaiting a triple bypass. Luckily a nurse was present and I cannot praise her enough for her professionalism. She ordered someone to dial 999 and inform them we needed an ambulance immediately, she answered all their questions and believe you me there were dozens. She had the presence of mind to know where a defibulator was kept in the next village and instructed someone who hadn't had a drink to go and fetch it. Also present was a chap involved with mountain rescue, our friends heart stopped, she started and he carried on with CPR I was now talking to the ambulance people who when I explained patient heart had stopped beating informed me that it would be 3 hours before they could get an ambulance to him. Luckily the defibulator arrived, mountain rescue chap and nurse administered treatment and his heart started again. Nurse said if it was her husband she'd take him to hospital by car and this was done. We're waiting to hear how he is. Welcome to the wonderful world of Welsh NHS run by labour.
The medical staff are great but they are definitely being let down by a complete lack of understanding of what is needed. The nurse said that everyone was so busy ticking boxes to make sure all diversity targets are met that they seem to forget that the most important people in hospitals are the patients.

R6

[Rhyd6]

Good news, our friend is awake and aware. Hospital staff were fantastic and said that if he hadn't been brought in straightaway he'd never have made it.

R6

[pje16]

Great to hear that
I had a triple by pass 3 years ago, but I was at home when my ticker went on the blink, so that was far easier than being in a pub

[Itsallaguess]

we had an emergency at the local pub quiz last evening.

One of our team collapsed, he has heart problems and is currently awaiting a triple bypass. Luckily a nurse was present and I cannot praise her enough for her professionalism. She ordered someone to dial 999 and inform them we needed an ambulance immediately, she answered all their questions and believe you me there were dozens.

She had the presence of mind to know where a defibulator was kept in the next village and instructed someone who hadn't had a drink to go and fetch it. Also present was a chap involved with mountain rescue, our friends heart stopped, she started and he carried on with CPR I was now talking to the ambulance people who when I explained patient heart had stopped beating informed me that it would be 3 hours before they could get an ambulance to him. Luckily the defibulator arrived, mountain rescue chap and nurse administered treatment and his heart started again. Nurse said if it was her husband she'd take him to hospital by car and this was done.

What a superb story from such a harrowing episode.

Anyone who ever seeks to dismiss the idea of 'society' should be force-fed these great tales of community cohesion until they actively change their views...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Lootman]

we had an emergency at the local pub quiz last evening.

One of our team collapsed, he has heart problems and is currently awaiting a triple bypass. Luckily a nurse was present and I cannot praise her enough for her professionalism. She ordered someone to dial 999 and inform them we needed an ambulance immediately, she answered all their questions and believe you me there were dozens.

She had the presence of mind to know where a defibulator was kept in the next village and instructed someone who hadn't had a drink to go and fetch it. Also present was a chap involved with mountain rescue, our friends heart stopped, she started and he carried on with CPR I was now talking to the ambulance people who when I explained patient heart had stopped beating informed me that it would be 3 hours before they could get an ambulance to him. Luckily the defibulator arrived, mountain rescue chap and nurse administered treatment and his heart started again. Nurse said if it was her husband she'd take him to hospital by car and this was done.

What a superb story from such a harrowing episode. Anyone who ever seeks to dismiss the idea of 'society' should be force-fed these great tales of community cohesion until they actively change their views...

Indeed. But I think the tendency for people to be community-minded in that way varies depending on where you are in the UK.

So in a small town in the Welsh valleys I can totally understand that. For a start rural communities are naturally more suited to helping out neighbours, many of whom they no doubt know personally, or at least know people who know them.

Plus government is generally less interventionist and invasive the more "off the grid" you are. Councils in rural areas provide fewer services and so local taxes are lower, which makes people less resentful.

If someone collapsed in my local in London I am not sure people would react much at all. They would probably just assume that the guy was as drunk as a lord, and leave him to sleep it off. And then there is the feeling that, with taxes as high as in my borough, things like this are somebody else's problem.

So perhaps I am talking myself into relocating to North Wales where, as a couple of friends of mine who have relocated there constantly tell me, you can get more house for your money than anywhere else in GB. And where the people are super friendly and helpful. As in the local farmer who snow ploughs their driveway for free when it snows. And the local village who adopted them (they are gay).

[Dod101]

we had an emergency at the local pub quiz last evening.

One of our team collapsed, he has heart problems and is currently awaiting a triple bypass. Luckily a nurse was present and I cannot praise her enough for her professionalism. She ordered someone to dial 999 and inform them we needed an ambulance immediately, she answered all their questions and believe you me there were dozens.

She had the presence of mind to know where a defibulator was kept in the next village and instructed someone who hadn't had a drink to go and fetch it. Also present was a chap involved with mountain rescue, our friends heart stopped, she started and he carried on with CPR I was now talking to the ambulance people who when I explained patient heart had stopped beating informed me that it would be 3 hours before they could get an ambulance to him. Luckily the defibulator arrived, mountain rescue chap and nurse administered treatment and his heart started again. Nurse said if it was her husband she'd take him to hospital by car and this was done.

What a superb story from such a harrowing episode. Anyone who ever seeks to dismiss the idea of 'society' should be force-fed these great tales of community cohesion until they actively change their views...

Indeed. But I think the tendency for people to be community-minded in that way varies depending on where you are in the UK.

So in a small town in the Welsh valleys I can totally understand that. For a start rural communities are naturally more suited to helping out neighbours, many of whom they no doubt know personally, or at least know people who know them.

Plus government is generally less interventionist and invasive the more "off the grid" you are. Councils in rural areas provide fewer services and so local taxes are lower, which makes people less resentful.

If someone collapsed in my local in London I am not sure people would react much at all. They would probably just assume that the guy was as drunk as a lord, and leave him to sleep it off. And then there is the feeling that, with taxes as high as in my borough, things like this are somebody else's problem.

So perhaps I am talking myself into relocating to North Wales where, as a couple of friends of mine who have relocated there constantly tell me, you can get more house for your money than anywhere else in GB. And where the people are super friendly and helpful. As in the local farmer who snow ploughs their driveway for free when it snows. And the local village who adopted them (they are gay).

Not sure about the gay bit but otherwise it pretty well describes the situation where I live in semi rural Scotland, and I imagine in much of the UK, at least outside of the big conurbations.

Dod

[Rhyd6]

Just been talking to friends wife, they're very pleased with his progress in hospital, will be keeping him in for a few days longer for more tests and hope to get his triple bypass bumped up the queue. The operation will be carried out at Broadgreen Hospital in Liverpool. She also told me that he was annoyed because he knew the tune that was being played when he collapsed and he could have gained a point. Unfortunately he was wrong, he told her he'd heard the Beegees "Stayin' Alive" but this was being played when CPR was being administered because the beat is ideal for doing the compressions. As his heart had stopped beating at the time this seems rather weird.

R6

[pje16]

Thanks for the update
No doubt the hospital will tell him, but recovery time is at least 6 weeks
You can't lift anything heavier than a bag of sugar for at least a week, I know that sounds so feeble
but you are weaker than you could begin to imagine

Follow the recovery programme they give you, I did, and could see small improvements day by day
Top tip
Get a small towel and roll it up into a tube
Before coughing, hold it against your chest, wrap your arms around it and squeeze
Good luck having the time to do that before a sneeze

Trust me, it is agony for a good few minutes if you don't
(reason being your rib cage has been opened up and needs several weeks to heal)

[Rhyd6]

To return to the original post re Covid vaccinations. Todays post has bought 4 letters from NHS Wales regarding our Covid booster jabs, in each case we've been told that we should report to:- 1.Catherine Finch Centre, Wrexham, 2. Deeside Leisure Centre, 3. Royal British Legion, Llay, and 4.Mold Rugby Club. All are for different dates and different times, NHS Wales is truly in a class of its own.
Luckily all dates are for the middle of October so we'll have time to sort it out when we get back from our break.

R6

[stewamax]

Late last year I paid daily visits to a close relative in hospital. ‘The NHS’ may have its problems but the staff were uniformly caring and competent (the ‘other’ Big Cs) and their skill had my admiration.

Before visiting, I usually bought up most (and on one day all) of the excellent ‘four for a pound’ shortcrust mince-pies from a local Sainsburys where they were baked in store and were still warm, and asked a nurse to dump them in the Ward staff room – with the proviso that half were for the 20.00 night shift.
On another occasion I instead persuaded a local bakery to make me a monster (about a metre square) one-off version of their famed fruit cake.
On yet another, I bought up a rack of Sainsbury doughnuts.

The reaction from the staff knocked me back a bit: at staff break times I had a constant trickle of nurses, HCAs and housekeeping staff coming to thank me – many with the slightly bewildered comment ‘no-one else has ever done this’ or similar.

It was no big expense and seemed to me entirely justified.
And I would do it again for staff on 12-hour shifts whose nurses are paid half of what an LT train driver gets and HCAs paid a pittance.

Knocking 'the NHS' may be justified, but not the staff.

[Dod101]

Late last year I paid daily visits to a close relative in hospital. ‘The NHS’ may have its problems but the staff were uniformly caring and competent (the ‘other’ Big Cs) and their skill had my admiration.

Before visiting, I usually bought up most (and on one day all) of the excellent ‘four for a pound’ shortcrust mince-pies from a local Sainsburys where they were baked in store and were still warm, and asked a nurse to dump them in the Ward staff room – with the proviso that half were for the 20.00 night shift.
On another occasion I instead persuaded a local bakery to make me a monster (about a metre square) one-off version of their famed fruit cake.
On yet another, I bought up a rack of Sainsbury doughnuts.

The reaction from the staff knocked me back a bit: at staff break times I had a constant trickle of nurses, HCAs and housekeeping staff coming to thank me – many with the slightly bewildered comment ‘no-one else has ever done this’ or similar.

It was no big expense and seemed to me entirely justified.
And I would do it again for staff on 12-hour shifts whose nurses are paid half of what an LT train driver gets and HCAs paid a pittance.

Knocking 'the NHS' may be justified, but not the staff.

I have recc'd this post but at the same time it has the makings of a slippery slope. I used to live in the Far East and this was the done thing in public hospitals and some private/charity ones. In fact if the relative did not conform...........

I completely understand the thinking behind the gesture but it can leave the donor in a difficult position vis-a-vis other patients and their relatives......Just saying.

Dod

[TahiPanasDua]

Late last year I paid daily visits to a close relative in hospital. ‘The NHS’ may have its problems but the staff were uniformly caring and competent (the ‘other’ Big Cs) and their skill had my admiration.

Before visiting, I usually bought up most (and on one day all) of the excellent ‘four for a pound’ shortcrust mince-pies from a local Sainsburys where they were baked in store and were still warm, and asked a nurse to dump them in the Ward staff room – with the proviso that half were for the 20.00 night shift.
On another occasion I instead persuaded a local bakery to make me a monster (about a metre square) one-off version of their famed fruit cake.
On yet another, I bought up a rack of Sainsbury doughnuts.

The reaction from the staff knocked me back a bit: at staff break times I had a constant trickle of nurses, HCAs and housekeeping staff coming to thank me – many with the slightly bewildered comment ‘no-one else has ever done this’ or similar.

It was no big expense and seemed to me entirely justified.
And I would do it again for staff on 12-hour shifts whose nurses are paid half of what an LT train driver gets and HCAs paid a pittance.

Knocking 'the NHS' may be justified, but not the staff.

I have recc'd this post but at the same time it has the makings of a slippery slope. I used to live in the Far East and this was the done thing in public hospitals and some private/charity ones. In fact if the relative did not conform...........

I completely understand the thinking behind the gesture but it can leave the donor in a difficult position vis-a-vis other patients and their relatives......Just saying.

Dod

Hi Dod,

Long before the current financial catastrophe in Sri Lanka, we experienced the slippery slope you may be hinting at. Government hospitals there are supposedly free, but doctors made no bones about the treatment you would get if you didn't give them handouts. It's a way of life there and even in a government veterinary hospital, a doctor, with student vets in attendance, demanded a specific sum in cash on the spot before examining our dog. I can't really see that happening here.

TP2

[Dod101]

Late last year I paid daily visits to a close relative in hospital. ‘The NHS’ may have its problems but the staff were uniformly caring and competent (the ‘other’ Big Cs) and their skill had my admiration.

Before visiting, I usually bought up most (and on one day all) of the excellent ‘four for a pound’ shortcrust mince-pies from a local Sainsburys where they were baked in store and were still warm, and asked a nurse to dump them in the Ward staff room – with the proviso that half were for the 20.00 night shift.
On another occasion I instead persuaded a local bakery to make me a monster (about a metre square) one-off version of their famed fruit cake.
On yet another, I bought up a rack of Sainsbury doughnuts.

The reaction from the staff knocked me back a bit: at staff break times I had a constant trickle of nurses, HCAs and housekeeping staff coming to thank me – many with the slightly bewildered comment ‘no-one else has ever done this’ or similar.

It was no big expense and seemed to me entirely justified.
And I would do it again for staff on 12-hour shifts whose nurses are paid half of what an LT train driver gets and HCAs paid a pittance.

Knocking 'the NHS' may be justified, but not the staff.

I have recc'd this post but at the same time it has the makings of a slippery slope. I used to live in the Far East and this was the done thing in public hospitals and some private/charity ones. In fact if the relative did not conform...........

I completely understand the thinking behind the gesture but it can leave the donor in a difficult position vis-a-vis other patients and their relatives......Just saying.

Dod

Hi Dod,

Long before the current financial catastrophe in Sri Lanka, we experienced the slippery slope you may be hinting at. Government hospitals there are supposedly free, but doctors made no bones about the treatment you would get if you didn't give them handouts. It's a way of life there and even in a government veterinary hospital, a doctor, with student vets in attendance, demanded a specific sum in cash on the spot before examining our dog. I can't really see that happening here.

TP2

That is rather more overt than I was thinking about but even in civilised Colonial Hong Kong, the locals generally made sure that these things were attended to in Government and at least some charity hospitals.

I suspect that some relatives in this country might not take too well to that sort of gesture especially if they felt they could not keep up with the generosity. The gesture is after all a sort of tip but anyway I do not want to make too much of this because I expect that the poster was making his gesture with the best of intentions.

Dod

[servodude]

Late last year I paid daily visits to a close relative in hospital. ‘The NHS’ may have its problems but the staff were uniformly caring and competent (the ‘other’ Big Cs) and their skill had my admiration.

Before visiting, I usually bought up most (and on one day all) of the excellent ‘four for a pound’ shortcrust mince-pies from a local Sainsburys where they were baked in store and were still warm, and asked a nurse to dump them in the Ward staff room – with the proviso that half were for the 20.00 night shift.
On another occasion I instead persuaded a local bakery to make me a monster (about a metre square) one-off version of their famed fruit cake.
On yet another, I bought up a rack of Sainsbury doughnuts.

The reaction from the staff knocked me back a bit: at staff break times I had a constant trickle of nurses, HCAs and housekeeping staff coming to thank me – many with the slightly bewildered comment ‘no-one else has ever done this’ or similar.

It was no big expense and seemed to me entirely justified.
And I would do it again for staff on 12-hour shifts whose nurses are paid half of what an LT train driver gets and HCAs paid a pittance.

Knocking 'the NHS' may be justified, but not the staff.

I have recc'd this post but at the same time it has the makings of a slippery slope. I used to live in the Far East and this was the done thing in public hospitals and some private/charity ones. In fact if the relative did not conform...........

I completely understand the thinking behind the gesture but it can leave the donor in a difficult position vis-a-vis other patients and their relatives......Just saying.

Dod

Hi Dod,

Long before the current financial catastrophe in Sri Lanka, we experienced the slippery slope you may be hinting at. Government hospitals there are supposedly free, but doctors made no bones about the treatment you would get if you didn't give them handouts. It's a way of life there and even in a government veterinary hospital, a doctor, with student vets in attendance, demanded a specific sum in cash on the spot before examining our dog. I can't really see that happening here.

TP2

That is rather more overt than I was thinking about but even in civilised Colonial Hong Kong, the locals generally made sure that these things were attended to in Government and at least some charity hospitals.

I suspect that some relatives in this country might not take too well to that sort of gesture especially if they felt they could not keep up with the generosity. The gesture is after all a sort of tip but anyway I do not want to make too much of this because I expect that the poster was making his gesture with the best of intentions.

Dod

It was not that unusual for the family of patients to drop off boxes of biscuits or bottles of stuff to a nurses' station or a surgery in Scotland; especially if the practice included a bonded warehouse .
The greasing of the palms goes on at a much higher level in the UK
- though I suppose bras are personal protective equipment

-sd