Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

5:2 Diet

Fitness tips, Relaxation, Mind and Body
csearle
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4764
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:24 pm
Has thanked: 4814 times
Been thanked: 2083 times

5:2 Diet

#20097

Postby csearle » January 4th, 2017, 8:14 pm

Anyone else had any experience of this?

I tried it for a year. I have all the spreadsheets to prove it and am happy to post a graph or two!

Regards,
Chris

stooz
Site Admin
Posts: 1447
Joined: November 3rd, 2016, 11:03 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 502 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#20104

Postby stooz » January 4th, 2017, 8:17 pm

A year is a good run. My doctor just advised it specifically. Whats your thoughts of it?

csearle
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4764
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:24 pm
Has thanked: 4814 times
Been thanked: 2083 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#20117

Postby csearle » January 4th, 2017, 8:29 pm

Well I stuck to it religiously, indeed obsessively. My BMI was at 25. My weight was 73kg. My body fat (as approximated by one of these scales where you hold on to electrodes while standing on electrodes too) was 23%.

I went down steadily to BMI 22, Weight 66kg, Fat 14%. So it clearly and demonstrably works but after a year I started getting a tad fed up of the hassle - even though it was only two days per week. Four months on and I'm right back where I started. So I guess it is a question of whether I really want to alter my lifestyle again.

I had intended to simply cut back to one fast day a week but my will power didn't hold out.

Chris

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8912
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3667 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#20138

Postby redsturgeon » January 4th, 2017, 9:09 pm

I've done it since it first came out, I can't remember if that is 2 or 3 years ago. Every Monday and Thursdays are my fast days when I will eat nothing until 6pm. I drink black tea and coffee with no sugar so drinks are easy for me.

I was 95kg (but at 6ft 3in that's not as bad as it seems) I now hover around 90kg which is just under the magic 25 BMI number. I am 60, walk or run 3 miles most days, often more and do 25-50 press ups to keep in trim.

It is now ingrained in my lifestyle although I will quite happily ignore it completely if I am on holiday or if I have something special happening on a Monday or Thursday but will catch up later.

What I like about it is that I am quite happy to eat or drink as much as a want on 5 days a week so for that I am willing to put up with the 2 days of fasting. It works for me.

John

ReformedCharacter
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3120
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:12 am
Has thanked: 3591 times
Been thanked: 1509 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#20675

Postby ReformedCharacter » January 6th, 2017, 1:24 pm

I am quite happy to take Michael Mosley's positive findings on the 5:2 diet as yet another study on the benefits of fasting. Many people seem to use the 5:2 as a way to lose weight or maintain a lower body weight, perhaps ignoring some of the other considerable health benefits. I have fasted about once a week for about 6 years and find it an indispensable aid to staying healthy. I fast for 36-48 hours depending on my other daily activities. I would never choose to return to 'continuous eating' without having a fasting break again. This sort of regime wouldn't suit everybody and I wouldn't attempt it if I was in full time employment but that is what the 5:2 diet is for.

RC

iain123
Posts: 32
Joined: January 5th, 2017, 1:08 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#22727

Postby iain123 » January 13th, 2017, 8:28 am

Snorvey wrote:I did it for a year and a half and lost nearly 2 stone. There's a few posts over on OldFool - 'Eat fart and live longer' the first of several updates.

After coming off it, I reckon I have put about half the weight back on again, but now I watch what I eat a lot more. I still do the ocassional 24 hour fast (yesterday and the day before being one). 7pm to 7pm with only a couple of coffees, some vitmamins and a plenty of tap water.

Most refreshing!


When you say 7pm-7pm were you eating after 7pm or did you skip a full 3 meals? Interested if it works just skipping breakfast and lunch.

jackdaww
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2081
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:53 am
Has thanked: 3203 times
Been thanked: 417 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#22731

Postby jackdaww » January 13th, 2017, 8:37 am

i am teetotal, over 6ft and weigh just 10stone, BMI 18.

my peak weight 60 years ago was 12 stone , never been fat .

will this diet help INCREASE weight , if not HOW ?

:?: :?:

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8912
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3667 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#22760

Postby redsturgeon » January 13th, 2017, 9:44 am

jackdaww wrote:i am teetotal, over 6ft and weigh just 10stone, BMI 18.

my peak weight 60 years ago was 12 stone , never been fat .

will this diet help INCREASE weight , if not HOW ?

:?: :?:


There is research that shows being slightly overweight as an older person is better for longevity than being underweight and certainly a BMI under 20 would be seen by some as less healthy for an older person than between 20 and 25. (I don't know how old you are but I guess 0ver 70)

Body weight needs to be looked at in terms of muscle mass vs fat of course and muscle mass is very easy to lose as one ages.

If you want to increase your weight than I'd suggest a couple of things.

First see your GP to check there are no underlying health issues.

Next look at an exercise programme that increases your muscle mass. If you don't do much at the moment then start slowly. I'd recommend joining a gym or group of some kind. If you do no exercise at all then starting by walking two or three miles a day will help get things going. But it would be useful to talk to a personal trainer who could get you a personalised programme to work on (don't let your age put you off).

Obviously all of the above is dependent on you having reasonable mobility to start with.

You also do need to eat more if you wish to gain weight but it is important to eat the right things and there is lots of advice out there on what a balanced diet looks like but if you start doing exercise and want to build muscle mass then protein should play an important role.

What is your current situation with food? Do you enjoy eating or do you just eat because you have to? Do you cook or have someone who cooks for you? Do you eat healthily? What do you like to eat? How easy would it be for you to change your eating habits?

John

jackdaww
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2081
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:53 am
Has thanked: 3203 times
Been thanked: 417 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#23073

Postby jackdaww » January 14th, 2017, 5:14 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
jackdaww wrote:i am teetotal, over 6ft and weigh just 10stone, BMI 18.

my peak weight 60 years ago was 12 stone , never been fat .

will this diet help INCREASE weight , if not HOW ?

:?: :?:


There is research that shows being slightly overweight as an older person is better for longevity than being underweight and certainly a BMI under 20 would be seen by some as less healthy for an older person than between 20 and 25. (I don't know how old you are but I guess 0ver 70)

Body weight needs to be looked at in terms of muscle mass vs fat of course and muscle mass is very easy to lose as one ages.

If you want to increase your weight than I'd suggest a couple of things.

First see your GP to check there are no underlying health issues.

Next look at an exercise programme that increases your muscle mass. If you don't do much at the moment then start slowly. I'd recommend joining a gym or group of some kind. If you do no exercise at all then starting by walking two or three miles a day will help get things going. But it would be useful to talk to a personal trainer who could get you a personalised programme to work on (don't let your age put you off).

Obviously all of the above is dependent on you having reasonable mobility to start with.

You also do need to eat more if you wish to gain weight but it is important to eat the right things and there is lots of advice out there on what a balanced diet looks like but if you start doing exercise and want to build muscle mass then protein should play an important role.

What is your current situation with food? Do you enjoy eating or do you just eat because you have to? Do you cook or have someone who cooks for you? Do you eat healthily? What do you like to eat? How easy would it be for you to change your eating habits?

John


============================

many thanks for your interest .

yes , well over 70 , mobile and active (gardening and walking) , i would like to get to 11 stone.

a few years ago i lost half a stone in 6 months , and developed a cough , so saw my GP.

i had lots of tests , including endoscomy (mouth end) and saw many doctors .

nothing showed up , everything clear , nothing diagnosed .

i am concerned some of these tests are not good enough , thyroid for example.

i do enjoy food , and think we eat plenty and well - some veg/fruit is homegrown so unsprayed.

eg

0730 cereal (oats,museli) milk avacodo/banana sardine tea

1000 egg or cheese with w/m bread/butter coffee

1300 meat/fish veg fruit tea

1600 cake/sweet coffee

1800 as 1000 juice

2100 milk/banana

i suspect building muscle will be very hard , i will do it if i think it will work .

.. 8-)

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8912
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3667 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#23088

Postby redsturgeon » January 14th, 2017, 5:33 pm

jackdaww wrote:
many thanks for your interest .

yes , well over 70 , mobile and active (gardening and walking) , i would like to get to 11 stone.

a few years ago i lost half a stone in 6 months , and developed a cough , so saw my GP.

i had lots of tests , including endoscomy (mouth end) and saw many doctors .

nothing showed up , everything clear , nothing diagnosed .

i am concerned some of these tests are not good enough , thyroid for example.

i do enjoy food , and think we eat plenty and well - some veg/fruit is homegrown so unsprayed.

eg

0730 cereal (oats,museli) milk avacodo/banana sardine tea

1000 egg or cheese with w/m bread/butter coffee

1300 meat/fish veg fruit tea

1600 cake/sweet coffee

1800 as 1000 juice

2100 milk/banana

i suspect building muscle will be very hard , i will do it if i think it will work .

.. 8-)


Sounds like you are doing all the right stuff and I guess some people are wishing they had your problem. Gardening and walking perfect for your age as exercise, if you could doing something extra to gain muscle mass then that would be excellent.

Your diet puts many of us to shame, I'm sure, healthy, varied and balanced and nicely spread over the day which is supposed to be the best way of gaining weight. It can only be that you are not eating enough calories, since in some senses your diet looks like something that would be recommended to someone trying to lose weight. Looking at what you eat it would seem that there is a lack of calorie dense foods. Do you eat nuts, either as peanut or almond butter or handfuls of nuts as a snack. Very calorie dense and nutritious, full of useful minerals, especially brazil nuts. What about portion sizes, perhaps your portions could be made slightly larger.

If all else fails then you could always take the junk food diet and cram in as many burgers, pizzas, curries, kebabs and doughnuts washed down with copious pints of beer and glasses of wine! ;)

Here is a link that backs up the general principles.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/26733 ... e-elderly/

John

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10691
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#23157

Postby UncleEbenezer » January 15th, 2017, 12:21 am

redsturgeon wrote:There is research that shows being slightly overweight as an older person is better for longevity than being underweight and certainly a BMI under 20 would be seen by some as less healthy for an older person than between 20 and 25. (I don't know how old you are but I guess 0ver 70)

Is there anything to suggest causation (as opposed to just correlation)?

As with so many matters concerning health and risks, correlation could plausibly be accounted for without any causal link. Most obviously in this case because a certain proportion of thin older people are those made thin by a serious health condition such as cancer or TB (similar applies to fatties). Some of us are just naturally above or below "ideal" BMI due to non-average physiques.

jackdaww
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2081
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:53 am
Has thanked: 3203 times
Been thanked: 417 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#23213

Postby jackdaww » January 15th, 2017, 11:32 am


Sounds like you are doing all the right stuff and I guess some people are wishing they had your problem. Gardening and walking perfect for your age as exercise, if you could doing something extra to gain muscle mass then that would be excellent.

Your diet puts many of us to shame, I'm sure, healthy, varied and balanced and nicely spread over the day which is supposed to be the best way of gaining weight. It can only be that you are not eating enough calories, since in some senses your diet looks like something that would be recommended to someone trying to lose weight. Looking at what you eat it would seem that there is a lack of calorie dense foods. Do you eat nuts, either as peanut or almond butter or handfuls of nuts as a snack. Very calorie dense and nutritious, full of useful minerals, especially brazil nuts. What about portion sizes, perhaps your portions could be made slightly larger.

If all else fails then you could always take the junk food diet and cram in as many burgers, pizzas, curries, kebabs and doughnuts washed down with copious pints of beer and glasses of wine! ;)

Here is a link that backs up the general principles.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/26733 ... e-elderly/

John


===============

thanks again , and for the link.

it is possible i just need to eat more so i'm trying that .

another aspect re "thinner people" , some years ago there was talk of "brown fat" in some of us , its effect is to burn off excess calories as heat.

i certainly experience this if i eat dinner (main meal) at the conventional evening time , then cant sleep - too hot !!

. :idea:

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8912
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3667 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#23222

Postby redsturgeon » January 15th, 2017, 11:53 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:There is research that shows being slightly overweight as an older person is better for longevity than being underweight and certainly a BMI under 20 would be seen by some as less healthy for an older person than between 20 and 25. (I don't know how old you are but I guess 0ver 70)

Is there anything to suggest causation (as opposed to just correlation)?

As with so many matters concerning health and risks, correlation could plausibly be accounted for without any causal link. Most obviously in this case because a certain proportion of thin older people are those made thin by a serious health condition such as cancer or TB (similar applies to fatties). Some of us are just naturally above or below "ideal" BMI due to non-average physiques.


There have been many large well controlled studies that show time and again that not only is mortality worse in those with BMI under 20 but (contrary to perceived wisdom) the best range for lower mortality is to have a BMI between 25 and 30 ie. "overweight".

I have not looked into the make up of those studies but I would be amazed if they had not taken into account other health factors.

The simple fact is that over large populations of people, those who live the longest have a tend to have a BMI between 25-30.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 58229.html

John

jackdaww
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2081
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:53 am
Has thanked: 3203 times
Been thanked: 417 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#23236

Postby jackdaww » January 15th, 2017, 12:30 pm

[/quote]

There have been many large well controlled studies that show time and again that not only is mortality worse in those with BMI under 20 but (contrary to perceived wisdom) the best range for lower mortality is to have a BMI between 25 and 30 ie. "overweight".

I have not looked into the make up of those studies but I would be amazed if they had not taken into account other health factors.

The simple fact is that over large populations of people, those who live the longest have a tend to have a BMI between 25-30.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 58229.html

John[/quote]

=======

that makes sense.

if someone underweight gets ill or has an accident , they have less in reserve to get them through it .

i think the medical profession are still in the dark ages on these things.

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10691
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#23238

Postby UncleEbenezer » January 15th, 2017, 12:33 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:Is there anything to suggest causation (as opposed to just correlation)?


There have been many large well controlled studies that show time and again that not only is mortality worse in those with BMI under 20 but (contrary to perceived wisdom) the best range for lower mortality is to have a BMI between 25 and 30 ie. "overweight".

I have not looked into the make up of those studies but I would be amazed if they had not taken into account other health factors.

Do you have actual experience in any relevant field?

I do, in that I'm educated as a mathematician and have worked in real-world statistical analysis. That doesn't give me any insight into the particular issue of whether someone whose general lifestyle is healthy might benefit from gaining or losing weight, but it does give me a healthy cynicism regarding broad claims about complex issues.

There may be plenty of evidence for correlation: indeed, I've heard such reports. But not being a student or practitioner of medicine, the reports I encounter are mediated by journalists. That means, what I hear or read comes through someone whose aim is to simplify and dumb down a complex issue, and who probably has little or no insight into causation vs correlation in the issue at hand.

No doubt there are studies that have taken into account other health factors (which is not the same question as correlation vs causation). Those are not the subject of the kind of report you reference, and would only complicate the issue far too much for a report in the national press.

Raptor
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1621
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:39 pm
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 306 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#23240

Postby Raptor » January 15th, 2017, 12:40 pm

I have a target weight of 12 stone. Which I was in my early 20's and had been for many years, but I dropped to 10 1/2 stone a few years back, which worried me. At one of my bi-annual visits to the Dr's, he told me not to worry and as I had changed jobs, semi-retired, started eating differently as at home more to cook "proper" food and had more Gym sessions, that it was normal. Suggested a few changes to the food intake, more protein and carbs. Tried it and got to 11 1/2 stone. Have never managed to reach the milestone, even when I do a 2 week all inclusive "binge", when I seem to lose a bit of weight (ok fat weighs less than muscle). My daughter's boyfriend, who is a personal trainer, said up the protein and snack. I have never snacked, maybe an afternoon "sugar" boost. Tired and still stuck at just over 11 1/2 stone.
Xmas my daughter brought me a Fitbit Flex 2, since then have logged everything I eat and all my exercise routines. Now I know why I do not put on weight. Calories in less than Calories out? Give up, just eat when I want and what I want.

Raptor.

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8912
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3667 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#23252

Postby redsturgeon » January 15th, 2017, 1:27 pm

Do you have actual experience in any relevant field?


I am a scientist (BSc) with knowledge of scientific study design and statistical analysis. I worked all my life in the pharmaceutical industry and spent much of that time interpreting medical studies and looking at study design. I know the hurdles that have to be jumped to get a study published and I also know the biases that can be built into studies to "prove" or "disprove" preferred hypotheses.

All I have said is that many studies and large meta analyses have shown that being underweight is not as good for life expectancy as being normal weight or indeed overweight. Why that may be, I have made no comment on.

This is not just what I have gleaned from the popular press.

John

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8912
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3667 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#23255

Postby redsturgeon » January 15th, 2017, 1:43 pm

For Uncle E

Below is just a small cross section of the type of research involved and the journals involved in publication.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fu ... le/1555137

http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.co ... 458-14-371

https://www.elsevier.com/connect/is-bei ... your-heart

Your original question regarding causal relationships still holds true and is unanswered, but there is more than anecdotal evidence for the phenomenon.

Joh

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10691
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#23294

Postby UncleEbenezer » January 15th, 2017, 4:34 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
Do you have actual experience in any relevant field?


I am a scientist (BSc) with knowledge of scientific study design and statistical analysis. ... [chop]

This is not just what I have gleaned from the popular press.

John

OK, gotcha. So you do know what you're talking about here. Apologies for any suggestion to the contrary!

p.s. When Nuffield tested me (courtesy of my then-employer) in 2010, they found me to be obese when measured by BMI, but measured my body fat ratio at 17%, which is firmly in the healthy range. Make of that what you will.

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8912
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1309 times
Been thanked: 3667 times

Re: 5:2 Diet

#23298

Postby redsturgeon » January 15th, 2017, 5:06 pm

p.s. When Nuffield tested me (courtesy of my then-employer) in 2010, they found me to be obese when measured by BMI, but measured my body fat ratio at 17%, which is firmly in the healthy range. Make of that what you will.


BMI is a notoriously bad measure of obesity since it does not measure fat at all. It is a well known fact that our Olympian rowing team which included Steve Redgrave were all obese as measured by BMI, since muscle weighs more than fat any well muscled individual will fare badly against the BMI measure.

Waist measurement is thought to be a better guide and of course % body fat is the best measure of obesity, actually measuring the fat...but then of course there is good fat and bad fat!

John


Return to “Health & Wellbeing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests