Time limit of complaining?

[Julian]

I suspect that this is a bit of a "how long is a piece of string" question but a recent thread here about a long-lost and recently discovered prize from Emirates Airlines, together with spending time recently with an old friend who has often been awarded air miles for complaining about flights, made me think that I really was a complete idiot for not complaining about a horrific flight I took with BA in July 2014 and I'm wondering now, given how bad it was, whether it is still worth complaining. It would have been much better had I done it immediately afterwards because the embarrassment and pained expressions from all the cabin crew made me pretty sure that they would corroborate my complaint but any of that first hand memory from all but me is gone now.

Has anyone finally got round to complaing about failure to provide a service as advertised long (2.5 years or more) after the original experience? Is there any general regulation that would simply allow BA to say "too late" or is it worth a try?

- Julian

[PinkDalek]

If this applies, re cancellation, delay etc, 6 years:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_261/2004

[NomoneyNohoney]

I suspect that this is a bit of a "how long is a piece of string" question but a recent thread here about a long-lost and recently discovered prize from Emirates Airlines, together with spending time recently with an old friend who has often been awarded air miles for complaining about flights, made me think that I really was a complete idiot for not complaining about a horrific flight I took with BA in July 2014 and I'm wondering now, given how bad it was, whether it is still worth complaining. It would have been much better had I done it immediately afterwards because the embarrassment and pained expressions from all the cabin crew made me pretty sure that they would corroborate my complaint but any of that first hand memory from all but me is gone now.

Has anyone finally got round to complaing about failure to provide a service as advertised long (2.5 years or more) after the original experience? Is there any general regulation that would simply allow BA to say "too late" or is it worth a try?

- Julian

I couldn't find anything setting out the time limits for 'failure to provide service' claims, but found the following regarding claims for delayed flights:


"What is the time-limit in the United Kingdom?

In the United Kingdom, you have 6 years to start a claim on the basis of the European Regulation 261/2004.

Therefore, you have 6 years starting from the cancellation, delay or overbooking of your flight to ask compensation to the airline.

In the United Kingdom, the applicable time-limit of 6 years was confirmed in Dawson v. Thomson Airways in 2014. "



Couple of things for you to check for relevancy, the Regulation deetails and the court case, and I hope you find the rule is the same for 'failure to provide service' . If I'm trying to chance my arm with a 20 year old issue, you are on better grounds with something so recent.
Would it hurt to try, irrespective?

[Lootman]

If this applies, re cancellation, delay etc, 6 years:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_261/2004

If there had been a statutory entitlement for a cash payment then I would imagine that BA would have met it. Even Eurostar gave me compensation without my asking when I was two hours late getting into St. Pancras from Paris recently.

I took the question as more being about discretionary comp when things go wrong. And 2.5 years sounds like a long time to wait to claim that you are "outraged" or "unhappy", I would have thought. But that said, it does no harm to ask. I've flown BA over 100 times and they have generally looked after me when there are problems and delays. Not only free hotels and meals at the time, but also credits, Avios or upgrades.

Interestingly, on one occasion when my flight back from Newark (*) to LHR was delayed by 24 hours, they gave every passenger who was a member of the BA Executive Club bonus miles, with extra miles if you were Gold, Silver or Bronze. But passengers who weren't in the EC got nothing.

Evidently it matters how much business you give them and how much they like you. And of course how much you complain.

(*) A truly awful airport. Avoid at all costs.

[Clitheroekid]

Is there any general regulation that would simply allow BA to say "too late" or is it worth a try?

I'm not aware of any such restriction other than the general law on limitation.

What you are basically alleging is breach of contract, the contract being to provide you with an acceptable standard of service. The Limitation Act 1980 gives you 6 years to make a claim for breach of contract, so no hurry!

[Julian]

Thanks all. My experience was nothing to do with flight delays but, as CK observes, my issue does still in my opinion involve breach of contract, namely failure to provide me with full use of a seat on an 11.5 hour flight.

As extra background my issue was the one time I decided to try out Premium Economy and on boarding I discovered that my aisle seat was next to a passenger who, although I am not a doctor so do not understand the nuances of this term, as a lay-person I am pretty sure would be defined as morbidly obese. I don't just mean very, very fat, I mean so obese that he only just fitted between the arm rests and so much of him was spilling over that I was forced to spend the whole flight leaning into the aisle at an angle of I would estimate about 30 degrees.

I timed one of his excursions to the toilet from the time that he got back and asked me to get out of my seat for him to get back into his seat until the time I was able to re-take my seat. 7 minutes! This was because he was so large that he had to turn himself around to face the back of the plane, shuffle sideways into the row of seats using the back rests for support, rotate himself 180 degrees once he was in front of his seat, and then edge himself down into the seat. Since he was so huge this all happened very, very slowly.

Another notable point was how he ate. He couldn't reach his food on the tray table to eat it effectively so he had the food initially set down on the tray table and then, with his arms absolutely straight to give him maximum reach and holding onto just the very tips of the handles of the cutlery, he was just able to get the knife and fork onto the food enough to cut it into pieces. Once it was cut up he then had the foot plate lifted onto himself to rest just below his chin so that he could use a fork to get the food into his mouth.

I don't cite these anecdotes to criticise or mock but to try and convey the fact that this guy was not simply a broad-shouldered 6 foot 6 rugby player but was way beyond that in terms of size. I think it was only the fact that I am 5 foot 8 and weigh less than 60 kg that allowed me to use my seat at all and had that not been the case I don't know what the crew would have done because more than one of them came up to me discretely during the flight to let me know, with pained expressions on their faces, that there wasn't a single free seat on the plane to move me to.

- Julian

[quelquod]

I feel for you. I've often praised the good Lord that I've not been seated beside one of these colossi. Perhaps aircraft seating will follow car parking spaces in upsizing. I remember years ago on a hop from LA down to Orange County that a gigantic American lady was actually refused boarding because of seating limitations in the tiny (12 seats or so) aeroplane. We and our luggage were weighed before boarding and the pilots allocated seating based on weight distribution. Maybe something Ryan Air would consider.

In your case I wonder how you'd prove your claim after this time - photograph perhaps?

[Lootman]

I feel for you. I've often praised the good Lord that I've not been seated beside one of these colossi. Perhaps aircraft seating will follow car parking spaces in upsizing. I remember years ago on a hop from LA down to Orange County that a gigantic American lady was actually refused boarding because of seating limitations in the tiny (12 seats or so) aeroplane. We and our luggage were weighed before boarding and the pilots allocated seating based on weight distribution. Maybe something Ryan Air would consider.

Interesting, LAX to John Wayne airport is only a 40 mile flight.I don't believe it operates any more.

With small planes the weight of passengers matters a lot. Not just for computing fuel and take-off speeds, but also to ensure that the weight is evenly distributed around the plane. Even on larger planes, check-in agents used to estimate passengers' weight but these days, with larger planes and more passengers, I think they just take an average.

Re fat passengers, they really should either buy two seats in economy, or pay the extra to go business or first. If anything seats have been getting narrower with less legroom as airlines try and cram more passengers on board.

I would assume in this case the planes was full because a request to change seat in such a situation would normally be honoured, I once got upgraded because the passenger next to me had an oxygen tank and I asked to move, but there were no vacant seats in economy.

[Julian]

Re fat passengers, they really should either buy two seats in economy, or pay the extra to go business or first. If anything seats have been getting narrower with less legroom as airlines try and cram more passengers on board.

Agreed. That incidentally is why I mentioned early in my previous post that I was flying Premium Economy (PE). I did wonder at the time whether, had that passenger been flying economy class, BA would have required him to buy two seats but due to the slightly bigger seats in PE decided (very wrongly in my opinion) that 2 seats were not necessary. The cynic in me also wonders whether the fact that every single seat on that flight had been sold might have influenced BA's decision.

As a somewhat connected DAK, I have often heard talk of the requirement for people of exceptionally large size to purchase two seats but I have not noticed, at least on the BA and Virgin sites that I mostly use for long haul, any questions or prompts during the booking process asking me to consider and/or disclose whether I might need to buy two seats due to my size. Obviously it's not applicable to me because I'm small but how does that disclosure and decision making work? Is it usually enforced at check-in if the passenger hasn't done the right thing at booking time? With on-line check-in it might even be that the first chance that the airline get to determine the appropriateness of a passenger using a single seat might be at the boarding gate.

- Julian

[Lootman]

As a somewhat connected DAK, I have often heard talk of the requirement for people of exceptionally large size to purchase two seats but I have not noticed, at least on the BA and Virgin sites that I mostly use for long haul, any questions or prompts during the booking process asking me to consider and/or disclose whether I might need to buy two seats due to my size. Obviously it's not applicable to me because I'm small but how does that disclosure and decision making work? Is it usually enforced at check-in if the passenger hasn't done the right thing at booking time? With on-line check-in it might even be that the first chance that the airline get to determine the appropriateness of a passenger using a single seat might be at the boarding gate

Policies vary by airlines. I found this summery which appears to indicate that your neighbour was within BA's rules:

"British Airways requires passengers to be able to be able to buckle their seatbelt and fully lower both armrests; if you can't fit into the seat under these conditions, you must purchase an extra seat."

http://www.independenttraveler.com/trav ... policiesor

As far as I know it would only be at check-in when an airline realises that there might be a problem with a passenger's size, shape or weight, or at the gate with on-line check-in. A passenger is not asked for his/her weight when booking and such a question might be seen as offensive or invasive by some. (My wife isn't fat but she NEVER weighs herself, doesn't know her weight and doesn't want to know even to the point of telling the doctor who weighs her to not tell her).

Seems that most airline policies put the onus on the passenger, as is the case with other health issues such as needing an oxygen tank, de-fib unit or being disabled. Otherwise there's a risk you can't board.