The Lemon Fool

I complete a Self Assessment every year because I have multiple employments and some dividend income as well as my main employment. I also have a P11D for medical insurance provided by my employer.

However its clear from discussions with my work colleagues that whilst their only income is salary they also have the medical insurance snf hence a P11D... but they do not file a Self Assessment.

Surely they should be filing a SA to cover the P11D? Or are there alternatives that mean they can pay this through Schedule E?

I'm merely curious


didds

Well since the P11D is submitted to HMRC, presumably they'll change the employee's tax code to collect the tax.

Scott.

The requirement for a P11D has little to do with requirement for doing SA.

I know many people who's employers have to do P11D but where Sa is not required as everything has gone through payroll and so already been reported to HMRC.

You only need SA if you have income in addition to a single PAYE income.

Slarti

swill453 wrote:Well since the P11D is submitted to HMRC, presumably they'll change the employee's tax code to collect the tax.

Scott.

so why don;t they change mine?

didds

Slarti wrote:The requirement for a P11D has little to do with requirement for doing SA.

I know many people who's employers have to do P11D but where Sa is not required as everything has gone through payroll and so already been reported to HMRC.

You only need SA if you have income in addition to a single PAYE income.

Slarti

right... so... I don;t have to include my P11D in my SA?


in which case I should be getting a load of overpaid tax back?

didds

didds wrote:

Slarti wrote:The requirement for a P11D has little to do with requirement for doing SA.

I know many people who's employers have to do P11D but where Sa is not required as everything has gone through payroll and so already been reported to HMRC.

You only need SA if you have income in addition to a single PAYE income.

Slarti

right... so... I don;t have to include my P11D in my SA? ...

You need to include the benefits shown on the P11D on your self assessment Tax Return.

PinkDalek wrote:

didds wrote:

Slarti wrote:The requirement for a P11D has little to do with requirement for doing SA.

I know many people who's employers have to do P11D but where Sa is not required as everything has gone through payroll and so already been reported to HMRC.

You only need SA if you have income in addition to a single PAYE income.

Slarti

right... so... I don;t have to include my P11D in my SA? ...

You need to include the benefits shown on the P11D on your self assessment Tax Return.

and get taxed on them then in addition to my PAYE deductions? which already include them?

didds

It comes out in the wash, which you can see if you study the Tax Calculation in detail.

well I definitely did pay tax on it, as I only added the P11D figure "late" after initial completion/submission for last year, and I had extra to pay as a result.

Tax is I am afraid rather taxing.

didds

didds wrote:well I definitely did pay tax on it, as I only added the P11D figure "late" after initial completion/submission for last year, and I had extra to pay as a result.

Tax is I am afraid rather taxing.

didds

They processed your original Tax Return as was. Thus erroneously generating a lower overall Income Tax liability. Your amendment corrected the position. Hopefully in time to avoid interest and possibly penalties.

I thought I understood this stuff. Clearly not. the only way my initial submission was "wrong" is if my tax code didn't include it to start with. but that doesn't really make sense if my same employer colleagues' tax codes do.

whatever.

didds

My P11D benefits (health care) and pay/tax appear to have been put on my online SA automatically - unless I logged in last year and entered them, then forgot I'd done it....
It's worth checking the calculations very thoroughly - HMRC got something wrong on my 14/15 return and I was overcharged by £100s. I got it back though

didds wrote:I thought I understood this stuff. Clearly not. the only way my initial submission was "wrong" is if my tax code didn't include it to start with. but that doesn't really make sense if my same employer colleagues' tax codes do.

If you fill in a self assessment, then your tax code is really irrelevant at that point, it's not asked for or referred to.

Your tax code attempts to get your tax right for the year, your self assessment corrects it.

Scott,
.

absolutely Scott. so why does my tax code not include the P11D stuff in effect when presumably my colleagues do?

we all work for the same company, we all have the same health insurance offer, HMRC all know about it ie cos of the P11Ds.

This isn't £15 to sort out a small anomaly I'm talking about. Its circa 40% of the benefit amount ie not accounted for. Its not in my tax code already. but presumably in others - or they are not paying tax on their's at all. neither of which makes much sense.

didds

Earlier you said your PAYE deductions include (reflect?) them. Now you say the P11D info isn't reflected in your tax code. If so this is somewhat confusing.

However, I've seen something similar before where the benefits (in this instance gym benefits) are taxed at source via the payslip but this would mean there is no P11D entry and also no separate figure to include on your return.

Is this situation something new and did it apply to both the current and prior tax year?

didds wrote:

swill453 wrote:Well since the P11D is submitted to HMRC, presumably they'll change the employee's tax code to collect the tax.

Scott.

so why don;t they change mine?

didds

Because you are flagged as doing a SA, so they wait for that.

Mel

My P11D liability (health insurance) is taken into account in my tax code, and I've been doing SA for >10 years.

AleisterCrowley wrote:My P11D liability (health insurance) is taken into account in my tax code, and I've been doing SA for >10 years.

It should be in the tax code, but you do still put it on the SA from the P11D.

Mel

Mystery solved.

Spoke with HMRC who explained it wasn't in my tax code - as per Mel's suggestion. But now I've asked nicely they'll do so going forward.

Anyway, having spoken to the wife we are going to cancel the medical insurance, as with no pay rise for 6 years, a 6th form student, a university student and a long term unemployed son all to help support we can't carry that tax burden any longer anyway so its now almost redundant.

cheers all for your help and advice.

didds

melonfool wrote:

AleisterCrowley wrote:My P11D liability (health insurance) is taken into account in my tax code, and I've been doing SA for >10 years.

It should be in the tax code, but you do still put it on the SA from the P11D.

Mel

Yes - as mentioned it seems to have appeared automatically this year, previous years I had to enter manually.
My understanding is that the collection through the tax code is just a way to avoid big shocks when the sums are done. If there's untaxed/undertaxed income as well as fixed stuff like health insurance it's never going to be exactly right. The SA is the final correction.