Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to Blatter,orangepekoe,longview,ouzo,Fluke, for Donating to support the site

Trump coin

How to buy, profit and invest in crypto currencies or NFTs
Urbandreamer
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3852
Joined: December 7th, 2016, 9:09 pm
Has thanked: 432 times
Been thanked: 1304 times

Re: Trump coin

#708066

Postby Urbandreamer » January 27th, 2025, 7:15 am

hiriskpaul wrote:I really am struggling to see much difference between TRUMP and Bitcoin. How coins are created is surely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what they can be bought and sold for. Assuming there are a finite number. But is that true when it comes to TRUMP? Could Trump double the number of coins he holds at the touch of a button?


The differences are both technical and social.

The theoretical total number of bitcoins can only be increased by a software change. Doing so would be down to consensus of those who own bitcoin. There was a change proposed to increase the block size a number of years ago. It got very acrimonious and the change was supported by the miners. However they didn't achieve consensus. So the change was not implemented.

Such a change could occur with $TRUMP coin, and as the majority of coins are owned by Mr Trump the change would almost certainly go through.

How the coins have been created is irrelevant to you. But as you will likely not chose to own either and hence join the consensus your opinion is also irrelevant. Not so the opinions of those who chose to buy and own the coins. Dare I suggest that even before that point the opinions of those who might buy "crypto" could be relevant to their decision to buy.

hiriskpaul
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4429
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:04 pm
Has thanked: 898 times
Been thanked: 1811 times

Re: Trump coin

#708093

Postby hiriskpaul » January 27th, 2025, 10:34 am

Urbandreamer wrote:
hiriskpaul wrote:I really am struggling to see much difference between TRUMP and Bitcoin. How coins are created is surely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what they can be bought and sold for. Assuming there are a finite number. But is that true when it comes to TRUMP? Could Trump double the number of coins he holds at the touch of a button?


The differences are both technical and social.

The theoretical total number of bitcoins can only be increased by a software change. Doing so would be down to consensus of those who own bitcoin. There was a change proposed to increase the block size a number of years ago. It got very acrimonious and the change was supported by the miners. However they didn't achieve consensus. So the change was not implemented.

Such a change could occur with $TRUMP coin, and as the majority of coins are owned by Mr Trump the change would almost certainly go through.

How the coins have been created is irrelevant to you. But as you will likely not chose to own either and hence join the consensus your opinion is also irrelevant. Not so the opinions of those who chose to buy and own the coins. Dare I suggest that even before that point the opinions of those who might buy "crypto" could be relevant to their decision to buy.

Thanks, interesting. Trust clearly comes into this then. With Bitcoin the trust is in other holders not acting in a way which disadvantages you. Not an unreasonable assumption given the way Bitcoin is managed. When it comes to TRUMP though it would require MAGA for brains to trust that Trump will act in your interest rather than his own. Or be a courageous speculator who believed that were sufficient interested MAGAs and other speculators to drive the price up.

Clearly the way coins are created is relevant for an investment case if Trump can create more coins whenever he chooses and/or attempt to dump 80% of the coins onto the market. but if Trump held a more modest proportion and could not create more would that not make them have equal status in the minds of crypto coin investors with Bitcoin? Or maybe better if TRUMP was more energy efficient. If not, what is the difference? Purely from an investment case, how would a trustworthy version of TRUMP differ from Bitcoin?

Urbandreamer
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3852
Joined: December 7th, 2016, 9:09 pm
Has thanked: 432 times
Been thanked: 1304 times

Re: Trump coin

#708103

Postby Urbandreamer » January 27th, 2025, 11:53 am

hiriskpaul wrote: Or maybe better if TRUMP was more energy efficient. If not, what is the difference? Purely from an investment case, how would a trustworthy version of TRUMP differ from Bitcoin?


$TRUMP is more energy efficient than Bitcoin. However be careful what you wish for, It achieves that by changing the means by which consensus is achieve.

Ignoring $TRUMP, and instead talking about ETH. It's also more energy efficient than Bitcoin. However decisions about the coin rest with "Validators". People who stake a significant amount of ETH. Trust is more distributed than with $TRUMP , but effectively rests with oligarchs.

We are talking the difference between proof of work and poof of stake.

https://blockworks.co/news/proof-of-wor ... difference

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 22338
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 822 times
Been thanked: 8494 times

Re: Trump coin

#708116

Postby Lootman » January 27th, 2025, 12:52 pm

scrumpyjack wrote:Crypto depends entirely on the belief by buyers that it has value and that that value will rise because someone else will in due course pay more (aka the greater fool theory).

I agree although I'd take the view that is true for many things. For example how do we value an ounce of gold, a Van Gogh painting, a bottle of vintage wine or a parking space in central London?

In each case you can only really value it on the basis of supply and demand. And since supply is fixed, it is all about demand. Ask a used car dealer what a vehicle is worth and he will probably tell you "what someone is willing to pay for it".

In the world of shares and bonds, where new supply can be issued, I am not at all sure that anyone can consistently value them aside from looking at the current market price.

As for currencies, governments routinely debase them by printing more. And that takes us full circle back to crypto which, in theory anyway, is of fixed supply.

hiriskpaul
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4429
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:04 pm
Has thanked: 898 times
Been thanked: 1811 times

Re: Trump coin

#708137

Postby hiriskpaul » January 27th, 2025, 2:21 pm

Lootman wrote:
scrumpyjack wrote:Crypto depends entirely on the belief by buyers that it has value and that that value will rise because someone else will in due course pay more (aka the greater fool theory).

I agree although I'd take the view that is true for many things. For example how do we value an ounce of gold, a Van Gogh painting, a bottle of vintage wine or a parking space in central London?

In each case you can only really value it on the basis of supply and demand. And since supply is fixed, it is all about demand. Ask a used car dealer what a vehicle is worth and he will probably tell you "what someone is willing to pay for it".

In the world of shares and bonds, where new supply can be issued, I am not at all sure that anyone can consistently value them aside from looking at the current market price.

As for currencies, governments routinely debase them by printing more. And that takes us full circle back to crypto which, in theory anyway, is of fixed supply.

With a loan/bond there is more intrinsic value than there is with something like a Van Gough or a gold coin. With a fixed coupon bond you know your precise future nominal cash flows, assuming no default. Given a curve or even a flat yield you can work out a fair present value. With an index linked gilt you can calculate an inflation adjusted cash flow stream. With a corporate bond you can take a judgement on the probability of default and take that into consideration in the pricing. With shares it gets trickier. You could come up with a liquidation value, but most shares are priced higher as future earnings estimates also need to be considered. Tricky to get right, but you can at least have a stab at it. A parking space has utility value. What could you rent it for? Could you develop on it? You can normally come up with a ballpark current value. A Van Gough might have some earnings potential, you can charge for viewings and sell merchandise based on the design, but otherwise you are getting close to solely relying on what someone is prepared to pay. Gold coins, crypto coins, NFTs etc can really only be priced off the last deal. Gold can be leant I suppose and an income generated that way, but I have never heard of that income being used to justify a price for gold.

hiriskpaul
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4429
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:04 pm
Has thanked: 898 times
Been thanked: 1811 times

Re: Trump coin

#708142

Postby hiriskpaul » January 27th, 2025, 2:37 pm

Urbandreamer wrote:
hiriskpaul wrote: Or maybe better if TRUMP was more energy efficient. If not, what is the difference? Purely from an investment case, how would a trustworthy version of TRUMP differ from Bitcoin?


$TRUMP is more energy efficient than Bitcoin. However be careful what you wish for, It achieves that by changing the means by which consensus is achieve.

Ignoring $TRUMP, and instead talking about ETH. It's also more energy efficient than Bitcoin. However decisions about the coin rest with "Validators". People who stake a significant amount of ETH. Trust is more distributed than with $TRUMP , but effectively rests with oligarchs.

We are talking the difference between proof of work and poof of stake.

https://blockworks.co/news/proof-of-wor ... difference

Yes, I see what you mean. With both approaches it boils down to the extent to which the market can be trusted. Proof of work does seem more bullet proof, but as the link says proof of stake gets better with scale.

Anyway, speculation aside, it would seem that TRUMP looks incredibly dodgy as an investment. You might as well put your trust a PUTIN or MAFIA coin.

The blatant creation of a vehicle in full sight that enables bribes to be passed to Trump does look quite incredible, even for Trump. As someone online said, this is Idi Amin level corruption.

hiriskpaul
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4429
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:04 pm
Has thanked: 898 times
Been thanked: 1811 times

Re: Trump coin

#709521

Postby hiriskpaul » February 3rd, 2025, 4:51 pm

Looks like most of the early adopters have lost money.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/currenc ... 025-02-03/

Trump's meme coin made nearly $100 million in trading fees, as small traders lost money


Several born every minute it would appear.

Urbandreamer
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3852
Joined: December 7th, 2016, 9:09 pm
Has thanked: 432 times
Been thanked: 1304 times

Re: Trump coin

#709538

Postby Urbandreamer » February 3rd, 2025, 5:44 pm

hiriskpaul wrote:Looks like most of the early adopters have lost money.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/currenc ... 025-02-03/

Trump's meme coin made nearly $100 million in trading fees, as small traders lost money


Several born every minute it would appear.


To be blunt, the phrase "lost money" assumes that they bought it as an investment.
You can "lose money" buying coins from the Royal Mint.

For example, do you really expect this £2 coin to increase in value from the price (£18) that the mint will sell it to you at?
https://www.royalmint.com/shop/limited- ... ated-coin/

Yet I imagine that people are buying it.

hiriskpaul
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4429
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:04 pm
Has thanked: 898 times
Been thanked: 1811 times

Re: Trump coin

#709543

Postby hiriskpaul » February 3rd, 2025, 5:56 pm

Urbandreamer wrote:
hiriskpaul wrote:Looks like most of the early adopters have lost money.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/currenc ... 025-02-03/



Several born every minute it would appear.


To be blunt, the phrase "lost money" assumes that they bought it as an investment.
You can "lose money" buying coins from the Royal Mint.

For example, do you really expect this £2 coin to increase in value from the price (£18) that the mint will sell it to you at?
https://www.royalmint.com/shop/limited- ... ated-coin/

Yet I imagine that people are buying it.

Well yes, I had assumed that people bought Trump’s crypto coin to make money. Maybe not for the long term, but at least as a speculative punt. I admit I may be wrong about that assumption.

That Royal Mint coin is a collectible. Are you saying that's what these coins are? If so, why did so many holders sell them so quickly?

Urbandreamer
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3852
Joined: December 7th, 2016, 9:09 pm
Has thanked: 432 times
Been thanked: 1304 times

Re: Trump coin

#709549

Postby Urbandreamer » February 3rd, 2025, 6:13 pm

hiriskpaul wrote:
Urbandreamer wrote:
To be blunt, the phrase "lost money" assumes that they bought it as an investment.
You can "lose money" buying coins from the Royal Mint.

For example, do you really expect this £2 coin to increase in value from the price (£18) that the mint will sell it to you at?
https://www.royalmint.com/shop/limited- ... ated-coin/

Yet I imagine that people are buying it.

Well yes, I had assumed that people bought Trump’s crypto coin to make money. Maybe not for the long term, but at least as a speculative punt.

That Royal Mint coin is a collectible. Are you saying that's what these coins are? If so, why did so many holders sell them so quickly?


I've no idea of why anyone would pay £18 for a new coin with a face value of £2 or if it will have a value in excess of £18 in the future. I don't presume to know the reason that others buy things. Something that I might note is unusual upon this board.

I can't count the number of times that I have been told why I do, what I do. My claims otherwise not standing.

FWIW I also wouldn't buy meme coins. I do hope that I can pay £2 for a coin with "Big Brother is watching you" stamped upon it. I'm not willing to pay £18 for one though, given that I might get one for £2 in a years time.

Ps, at least one person didn't buy his wife's coin to make money.

terminal7
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2224
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:26 pm
Has thanked: 268 times
Been thanked: 811 times

Re: Trump coin

#709550

Postby terminal7 » February 3rd, 2025, 6:23 pm

Let's not forget MELANIA - only 9% down so far today and some 90% down from peak since it took off from about $8 to $13 for a brief moment on launch 20/1/25. According to CoinGecko (I know) some 27% of 'the community is bearish about Melania Meme (MELANIA) today'.

T7

Urbandreamer
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3852
Joined: December 7th, 2016, 9:09 pm
Has thanked: 432 times
Been thanked: 1304 times

Re: Trump coin

#709551

Postby Urbandreamer » February 3rd, 2025, 6:26 pm

terminal7 wrote:Let's not forget MELANIA - only 9% down so far today and some 90% down from peak since it took off from about $8 to $13 for a brief moment on launch 20/1/25. According to CoinGecko (I know) some 27% of 'the community is bearish about Melania Meme (MELANIA) today'.

T7


I do wonder if Paul thinks that the BBC journalist who bought some, did so as a speculative punt. Or if, just possibly, he had other reasons.

hiriskpaul
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4429
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:04 pm
Has thanked: 898 times
Been thanked: 1811 times

Re: Trump coin

#709552

Postby hiriskpaul » February 3rd, 2025, 6:30 pm

Urbandreamer wrote:
hiriskpaul wrote:Well yes, I had assumed that people bought Trump’s crypto coin to make money. Maybe not for the long term, but at least as a speculative punt.

That Royal Mint coin is a collectible. Are you saying that's what these coins are? If so, why did so many holders sell them so quickly?


I've no idea of why anyone would pay £18 for a new coin with a face value of £2 or if it will have a value in excess of £18 in the future. I don't presume to know the reason that others buy things. Something that I might note is unusual upon this board.

I can't count the number of times that I have been told why I do, what I do. My claims otherwise not standing.

FWIW I also wouldn't buy meme coins. I do hope that I can pay £2 for a coin with "Big Brother is watching you" stamped upon it. I'm not willing to pay £18 for one though, given that I might get one for £2 in a years time.

Some people collect things. I don't exactly know why people do this, but they do. That might be fashionable cudly toys, dinky cars, world stamps, pokemon cards or indeed £2 coins issued by the Royal Mint. I doubt many people would consider the purchase of a base metal £2 coin for £18 an investment. For most it is simply a collectible. Some collectibles can go up in price, but for most people that is not the prime reason for purchase.

Again, are you saying that would be one of the prime motivations for buying Trump coins? I am not saying it is not plausible (it takes all sorts), but I don't get why so many got traded if collecting was the motivation. You might see a few Royal Mail commemorative coins on ebay, but most go into people's collections and stay there.

hiriskpaul
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4429
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:04 pm
Has thanked: 898 times
Been thanked: 1811 times

Re: Trump coin

#709554

Postby hiriskpaul » February 3rd, 2025, 6:32 pm

Urbandreamer wrote:
terminal7 wrote:Let's not forget MELANIA - only 9% down so far today and some 90% down from peak since it took off from about $8 to $13 for a brief moment on launch 20/1/25. According to CoinGecko (I know) some 27% of 'the community is bearish about Melania Meme (MELANIA) today'.

T7


I do wonder if Paul thinks that the BBC journalist who bought some, did so as a speculative punt. Or if, just possibly, he had other reasons.

As part of his investigative journalism perhaps? I don't know who you mean so really cannot guess more than that?

Hallucigenia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 3:03 am
Has thanked: 198 times
Been thanked: 2155 times

Re: Trump coin

#709564

Postby Hallucigenia » February 3rd, 2025, 7:42 pm

Urbandreamer wrote:You can "lose money" buying coins from the Royal Mint.

For example, do you really expect this £2 coin to increase in value from the price (£18) that the mint will sell it to you at?
https://www.royalmint.com/shop/limited- ... ated-coin/

Yet I imagine that people are buying it.


Well in that case people aren't just buying a standard £2 coin, but one made to a higher standard, with a nice packaging about a popular subject, from an institution with a history of stability and reasonable investments. Assuming the purchase price has gone up by inflation or more, a random Google suggests that the Mint issues a couple of these presentation packs a year, most of them make you a small amount of money in the secondary market and some of them like the 2016 Shakespeare and 2018 Captain Cook are now worth £35 so have 2-3x your money in under a decade.

At least the Mint packaging looks nice if you're into that sort of thing, whereas memecoins don't have the same appeal in that regard.

Urbandreamer
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3852
Joined: December 7th, 2016, 9:09 pm
Has thanked: 432 times
Been thanked: 1304 times

Re: Trump coin

#709569

Postby Urbandreamer » February 3rd, 2025, 7:51 pm

Hallucigenia wrote:
Urbandreamer wrote:You can "lose money" buying coins from the Royal Mint.

For example, do you really expect this £2 coin to increase in value from the price (£18) that the mint will sell it to you at?
https://www.royalmint.com/shop/limited- ... ated-coin/

Yet I imagine that people are buying it.


Well in that case people aren't just buying a standard £2 coin, but one made to a higher standard, with a nice packaging about a popular subject, from an institution with a history of stability and reasonable investments. Assuming the purchase price has gone up by inflation or more, a random Google suggests that the Mint issues a couple of these presentation packs a year, most of them make you a small amount of money in the secondary market and some of them like the 2016 Shakespeare and 2018 Captain Cook are now worth £35 so have 2-3x your money in under a decade.

At least the Mint packaging looks nice if you're into that sort of thing, whereas memecoins don't have the same appeal in that regard.


Paul correctly got the point that I was making. That different people have different reasons to buy. I was questioning his assumption that they only bought for XYZ reason. Are you not falling into the same trap?

FWIW, were it not for the fact that I will cheaply be able to obtain that £2 coin, I might pay the cost. I place a high value on a coin issued by the state that is critical of the state!

While Trump is not my pin-up, anymore than Putin, they do have their followers.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/1 ... -calendar/


Return to “Crypto and NFTs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests