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Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

How to buy, profit and invest in crypto currencies or NFTs
dspp
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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#391707

Postby dspp » March 2nd, 2021, 11:19 pm

absolutezero wrote:
*Anyone who calls proper currencies 'fiat' is usually a crank.


Or simply being literal.

Urbandreamer
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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#391729

Postby Urbandreamer » March 3rd, 2021, 7:25 am

absolutezero wrote:If 'they' really wanted to shut Bitcoin etc down overnight then it's very easy.
All they need to do is close the exchanges like Coinbase etc. Legislate it out of existence. A 500% transaction tax. Whatever.
No new 'fiat'* money would be allowed in to the crypto systems and all money in there would be trapped.
The systems could still be used as a way of transferring money around but it couldn't get into general circulation.

*Anyone who calls proper currencies 'fiat' is usually a crank.


It has been made illegal in a number of countries. Often countries that have double digit inflation and regular devaluations of the fiat currency.
For example it's illegal in Nigeria, but very popular there.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-56169917

It's banned in Bolivia, and here is an article about the best exchanges to use if you live there.
https://www.smartbitcoininvestments.com ... n-bolivia/

Here is an article containing a list of countries who have made bitcoin illegal, so how come it's reached today's exchange rate?
https://cryptoadventure.org/countries-w ... 0-and-why/

Oh and of interest, today, Amazon are selling a kindle book about Modern Monetary Theory for £1.
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081JVRT5 ... 5400977031

For those who have never heard of the theory it goes along the lines, the government doesn't need to tax or balance the budget as it can simply print money. I haven't read this book, but for £1 I thought that I would.

Are fiat currencies "proper currencies"? I never claimed that they either were or were not. Or indeed said which currency, other than bitcoin, I was talking about. Try to buy a coffee in London with modern Zimbabwen dollars. I believe that they have re-introduced their own currency and banned the likes of the US dollar.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-50374402
We shall see how well it works for them.

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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#391734

Postby Bubblesofearth » March 3rd, 2021, 8:15 am

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:In that case presumably investors will move to those of which they consider the most valuable.

Isn't that why they've selected BTC, so far that is?


Sure but the point remains that the value of any particular cryptocurrency will be subject in part to the number that are around. At the moment Bitcoin is favoured but that could easily change. For example, what if a major economic power, the US or China for example, decided to introduce a state-backed cryptocurrency? Or what if someone designed a better cryptocurrency than Bitcoin, maybe one that didn't consume so much energy? And then a better one than that and so on?

The difference with gold is not just that it cannot be (cost effectively) manufactured to order but that there are no suitable physical substances that can replace it. It was selected because of its unique combination of properties that make it the best (physical) choice as money.

BoE

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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#391742

Postby Urbandreamer » March 3rd, 2021, 8:58 am

Bubblesofearth wrote:Sure but the point remains that the value of any particular cryptocurrency will be subject in part to the number that are around. At the moment Bitcoin is favoured but that could easily change. For example, what if a major economic power, the US or China for example, decided to introduce a state-backed cryptocurrency? Or what if someone designed a better cryptocurrency than Bitcoin, maybe one that didn't consume so much energy? And then a better one than that and so on?

BoE


Yes, that IS the point of compeating currencies. The "best", ie cheapest, most secure, best store of value, easiest to exchange, most popular, should "win". Bitcoin is just one cryptocurrency. Etherium is easier to mine, uses less power and is possibly cheaper to transact. USDC is pegged to the value of the US dollar as will be diem if it ever gets launched. All this presupposes that the state can not manage to stop people using them as you suggested.

Private currency not your thing? Well pay for your coffee in DECP, it's the state cryptocurrency that you talked about.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54261382
I'm not convinced that it's an improvement on any other state run currency, but others may be.

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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#391758

Postby Bubblesofearth » March 3rd, 2021, 9:54 am

Urbandreamer wrote:
Yes, that IS the point of compeating currencies. The "best", ie cheapest, most secure, best store of value, easiest to exchange, most popular, should "win". Bitcoin is just one cryptocurrency. Etherium is easier to mine, uses less power and is possibly cheaper to transact. USDC is pegged to the value of the US dollar as will be diem if it ever gets launched. All this presupposes that the state can not manage to stop people using them as you suggested.

Private currency not your thing? Well pay for your coffee in DECP, it's the state cryptocurrency that you talked about.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54261382
I'm not convinced that it's an improvement on any other state run currency, but others may be.


We may be talking at cross purposes here. My main point is that I think Bitcoin is massively overvalued at its current price for the various reasons I've outlined. I'm not saying that cryptocurrencies in some incarnation won't be the future of money, especially if national governments can find a way to embrace them.

For Bitcoin to be worth $1trn you have to assume a degree of permanence as the cryptocurrency of choice. Otherwise the downside is just too great.

IMO

BoE

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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#391787

Postby absolutezero » March 3rd, 2021, 11:15 am

Urbandreamer wrote:
1. Here is an article containing a list of countries who have made bitcoin illegal, so how come it's reached today's exchange rate?
https://cryptoadventure.org/countries-w ... 0-and-why/

SNIP

2. Are fiat currencies "proper currencies"? I never claimed that they either were or were not. Or indeed said which currency, other than bitcoin, I was talking about. Try to buy a coffee in London with modern Zimbabwen dollars. I believe that they have re-introduced their own currency and banned the likes of the US dollar.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-50374402
We shall see how well it works for them.

1. Because it's not illegal in the USA, UK, developed Europe. Etc.
The World's "rich" - i.e. us, are speculating on it. It's a plaything to us.

2. Zimbabwean dollars, Venezuelan Bolivars, Argentine Pesos etc don't count as 'proper currency'. Unless you are one of the poor souls forced into it by virtue of living there.
They aren't stable enough to be useable as currency (rather like Bitcoin).
These countries use the US dollar. It might be under the counter, but that's what they do.
I visited Zimbabwe when they were using the 'bond notes' which were basically monopoly money and worthless outside the country. They were worthless inside the country too. Everyone wanted USD and didn't want bond notes.

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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#391791

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » March 3rd, 2021, 11:27 am

absolutezero wrote:
Urbandreamer wrote:
1. Here is an article containing a list of countries who have made bitcoin illegal, so how come it's reached today's exchange rate?
https://cryptoadventure.org/countries-w ... 0-and-why/

SNIP

2. Are fiat currencies "proper currencies"? I never claimed that they either were or were not. Or indeed said which currency, other than bitcoin, I was talking about. Try to buy a coffee in London with modern Zimbabwen dollars. I believe that they have re-introduced their own currency and banned the likes of the US dollar.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-50374402
We shall see how well it works for them.

1. Because it's not illegal in the USA, UK, developed Europe. Etc.
The World's "rich" - i.e. us, are speculating on it. It's a plaything to us.

2. Zimbabwean dollars, Venezuelan Bolivars, Argentine Pesos etc don't count as 'proper currency'. Unless you are one of the poor souls forced into it by virtue of living there.
They aren't stable enough to be useable as currency (rather like Bitcoin).
These countries use the US dollar. It might be under the counter, but that's what they do.

My Argentianian work mate states that any foreign currency transaction over there incurs a massive tax charge.

Him (currently in Bogota, sometimes in Cambridge) and his tenant (in Buenos Aires) renegotiate their rental agreement (pesos) every 2 weeks.

Matt

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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#391794

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » March 3rd, 2021, 11:43 am

absolutezero wrote:If 'they' really wanted to shut Bitcoin etc down overnight then it's very easy.
All they need to do is close the exchanges like Coinbase etc. Legislate it out of existence.

I suspect the problem now is that big money and fund managers are getting involved.

Politicians and lobbyists money will move into BTC - well I guess their wealth managers will do this on their behalf. Rich people tend to have power and their protect their fortunes. It's possible that unless they ban crypto now (2021) soon it will be too late.

Matt

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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#391830

Postby dealtn » March 3rd, 2021, 1:55 pm

Urbandreamer wrote:
Oh and of interest, today, Amazon are selling a kindle book about Modern Monetary Theory for £1.
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081JVRT5 ... 5400977031



Whether you are a believer, or not, in MMT, or simply wish to find out a bit more, I would recommend buying it at that price before it inevitably goes up.

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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#391907

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » March 3rd, 2021, 5:25 pm

dealtn wrote:
Urbandreamer wrote:
Oh and of interest, today, Amazon are selling a kindle book about Modern Monetary Theory for £1.
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081JVRT5 ... 5400977031



Whether you are a believer, or not, in MMT, or simply wish to find out a bit more, I would recommend buying it at that price before it inevitably goes up.

Must admit, I have a copy. But it must wait its turn.

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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#391909

Postby dealtn » March 3rd, 2021, 5:30 pm

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:
dealtn wrote:
Urbandreamer wrote:
Oh and of interest, today, Amazon are selling a kindle book about Modern Monetary Theory for £1.
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081JVRT5 ... 5400977031



Whether you are a believer, or not, in MMT, or simply wish to find out a bit more, I would recommend buying it at that price before it inevitably goes up.

Must admit, I have a copy. But it must wait its turn.


I suspect my cryptic attempt at humour was too subtle.

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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#391937

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » March 3rd, 2021, 6:25 pm

dealtn wrote:
TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:
dealtn wrote:
Whether you are a believer, or not, in MMT, or simply wish to find out a bit more, I would recommend buying it at that price before it inevitably goes up.

Must admit, I have a copy. But it must wait its turn.


I suspect my cryptic attempt at humour was too subtle.

No of course I understood. I'll gladly admit to being boring, but not to being stupid!

It was a play on the inflationary concept.

TBH some fish demand a fatter worm before they bite.

;)

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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#392068

Postby Bubblesofearth » March 4th, 2021, 7:00 am

dealtn wrote:
I suspect my cryptic attempt at humour was too subtle.


Not just humour, crypto humour :D

BoE

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Re: Investment in crypto currencies and the role of central banks

#392082

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » March 4th, 2021, 8:09 am

Bubblesofearth wrote:
dealtn wrote:
I suspect my cryptic attempt at humour was too subtle.


Not just humour, crypto humour :D

BoE

Nice!


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