The Lemon Fool

This charity does not I think get the attention that it deserves. The numbers are quite staggering. Assets at 30 September 2021, its last year end, were £36.2 billion, with an investment return for that year of 34.5%. Expense relating to investment management was £186 million, totally insignificant. Imagine the cost of Terry Smith managing the fund. Of course they are charging only the direct cost of managing the funds but even so.

Not only that, they have managed 15.2% per annum over the last 10 years.

They do not fundraise from the public and spend over £1 billion per annum on their charitable work.

Full details, just Google Welcome Trust Annual report.

did you mean Wellcome Trust?

Possibly the Wellcome Trust's finest hour was when it stepped up its support for the deciphering of the human genome, and so ensured that it would remain in the public domain - in spite of attempts by other parties to patent or commercialize the sequences.
Reading matter - https://www.nature.com/articles/d42859-020-00101-9
and https://wellcome.org/news/sir-john-sulston-and-human-genome-project

seagles wrote:did you mean Wellcome Trust?

Indeed I did as you will know I am sure. Thanks for the correction of the spelling.

Dod

scotia wrote:Possibly the Wellcome Trust's finest hour was when it stepped up its support for the deciphering of the human genome, and so ensured that it would remain in the public domain - in spite of attempts by other parties to patent or commercialize the sequences.
Reading matter - https://www.nature.com/articles/d42859-020-00101-9
and https://wellcome.org/news/sir-john-sulston-and-human-genome-project

Thanks. Very interesting. However as this is a finance forum I was hoping for some discussion on the success the Wellcome Trust has had in its investments over a very long period. Quite remarkable considering what the equivalent investment trusts have on the whole (not) managed to achieve. Partly I expect this is down to expenses but I should imagine that a great deal of its success is down to the fact that they do not have to keep looking over their shoulder at some benchmark nor what their competition is doing.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:This charity does not I think get the attention that it deserves. The numbers are quite staggering. Assets at 30 September 2021, its last year end, were £36.2 billion, with an investment return for that year of 34.5%. Expense relating to investment management was £186 million, totally insignificant. Imagine the cost of Terry Smith managing the fund. Of course they are charging only the direct cost of managing the funds but even so.

Not only that, they have managed 15.2% per annum over the last 10 years.

They do not fundraise from the public and spend over £1 billion per annum on their charitable work.

Full details, just Google Welcome Trust Annual report.

I've just been looking at the Annual Report.

The Chief Investment Officer is Nicholas Moakes - a former non-executive director at F&C Investment Trust (FCIT) and a substantial holder of FCIT shares. When he left his holding was over 80k shares (about £730k).

In my opinion, investment trust managers and directors could learn a lot from how the Wellcome Trust manages it's investments.

As well as listed securities they have private equity, venture capital, property and hedge funds. Here is a list of their listed securities -

https://wellcome.org/who-we-are/investm ... y-holdings

LooseCannon101 wrote:

Dod101 wrote:This charity does not I think get the attention that it deserves. The numbers are quite staggering. Assets at 30 September 2021, its last year end, were £36.2 billion, with an investment return for that year of 34.5%. Expense relating to investment management was £186 million, totally insignificant. Imagine the cost of Terry Smith managing the fund. Of course they are charging only the direct cost of managing the funds but even so.

Not only that, they have managed 15.2% per annum over the last 10 years.

They do not fundraise from the public and spend over £1 billion per annum on their charitable work.

Full details, just Google Welcome Trust Annual report.

I've just been looking at the Annual Report.

The Chief Investment Officer is Nicholas Moakes - a former non-executive director at F&C Investment Trust (FCIT) and a substantial holder of FCIT shares. When he left his holding was over 80k shares (about £730k).

In my opinion, investment trust managers and directors could learn a lot from how the Wellcome Trust manages it's investments.

As well as listed securities they have private equity, venture capital, property and hedge funds. Here is a list of their listed securities -

https://wellcome.org/who-we-are/investm ... y-holdings

I am surprised that apart from yours' there have been no substantive comments re this highly successful investor. Mind you, it says something about the experience/quality/interest of most contributors that the HYP Boards seem to get the most interest in this entire forum.

I have no doubt that the investment style and investments of the Trust have been analysed many times but it is still instructive for most of us to take a very close look at how the Trust manages its funds.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:

LooseCannon101 wrote:

Dod101 wrote:This charity does not I think get the attention that it deserves. The numbers are quite staggering. Assets at 30 September 2021, its last year end, were £36.2 billion, with an investment return for that year of 34.5%. Expense relating to investment management was £186 million, totally insignificant. Imagine the cost of Terry Smith managing the fund. Of course they are charging only the direct cost of managing the funds but even so.

Not only that, they have managed 15.2% per annum over the last 10 years.

They do not fundraise from the public and spend over £1 billion per annum on their charitable work.

Full details, just Google Welcome Trust Annual report.

I've just been looking at the Annual Report.

The Chief Investment Officer is Nicholas Moakes - a former non-executive director at F&C Investment Trust (FCIT) and a substantial holder of FCIT shares. When he left his holding was over 80k shares (about £730k).

In my opinion, investment trust managers and directors could learn a lot from how the Wellcome Trust manages it's investments.

As well as listed securities they have private equity, venture capital, property and hedge funds. Here is a list of their listed securities -

https://wellcome.org/who-we-are/investm ... y-holdings

I am surprised that apart from yours' there have been no substantive comments re this highly successful investor. Mind you, it says something about the experience/quality/interest of most contributors that the HYP Boards seem to get the most interest in this entire forum.

I have no doubt that the investment style and investments of the Trust have been analysed many times but it is still instructive for most of us to take a very close look at how the Trust manages its funds.

Dod

The reason you have had little response is probably because it is on a board rarely viewed by the majority of contributors. A better board would be 'Investment Trusts' or 'Investment Strategies'.

The average HYP contributor is retired (60+) and interested in a reliable income. I think total return over the long term is a much better goal.

Thanks. You could well be right although I always click the Quick Links Active Topics buttons. The Wellcome Trust is not of course an investment trust except that I suppose it is in some ways. Sadly though, we cannot participate in its success.

I am what you describe as the average HYP contributor except that I am not (if you see what I mean). I rely on investment income but am much more a total return investor and could never, in any event, be a HYP investor.

Dod

LooseCannon101 wrote:

Dod101 wrote:

LooseCannon101 wrote:

Dod101 wrote:This charity does not I think get the attention that it deserves. The numbers are quite staggering. Assets at 30 September 2021, its last year end, were £36.2 billion, with an investment return for that year of 34.5%. Expense relating to investment management was £186 million, totally insignificant. Imagine the cost of Terry Smith managing the fund. Of course they are charging only the direct cost of managing the funds but even so.

Not only that, they have managed 15.2% per annum over the last 10 years.

They do not fundraise from the public and spend over £1 billion per annum on their charitable work.

Full details, just Google Welcome Trust Annual report.

I've just been looking at the Annual Report.

The Chief Investment Officer is Nicholas Moakes - a former non-executive director at F&C Investment Trust (FCIT) and a substantial holder of FCIT shares. When he left his holding was over 80k shares (about £730k).

In my opinion, investment trust managers and directors could learn a lot from how the Wellcome Trust manages it's investments.

As well as listed securities they have private equity, venture capital, property and hedge funds. Here is a list of their listed securities -

https://wellcome.org/who-we-are/investm ... y-holdings

I am surprised that apart from yours' there have been no substantive comments re this highly successful investor. Mind you, it says something about the experience/quality/interest of most contributors that the HYP Boards seem to get the most interest in this entire forum.

I have no doubt that the investment style and investments of the Trust have been analysed many times but it is still instructive for most of us to take a very close look at how the Trust manages its funds.

Dod

The reason you have had little response is probably because it is on a board rarely viewed by the majority of contributors. A better board would be 'Investment Trusts' or 'Investment Strategies'.

The average HYP contributor is retired (60+) and interested in a reliable income. I think total return over the long term is a much better goal.

Total return on the Welcome's top ten investments hasn't been too perky over the last year. I hope no reader of this thread went on to invest in their top shares.

Doordash, their top holding is down 76% since the report you linked to above. If Wellcome didn't sell, that will have been a loss of around $750 million on one share.

Over the last year, Microsoft down 21%, Alphabet down 31%, Vonovia down 66%, Amazon down 34% and Facebook/Meta down 60% will have wiped off a billion or so more.

Their top equity holdings were in high risk sectors so, yes performed well in previous years, but falls like those above will take a long time to recoup.

If you are a young investor, yes Total Return might be a good aim but losses like these for an individual with a concentrated portfolio could take 20 years or more to recover from.

Disclosure, I've invested in Microsoft and Amazon and through Terry Smith one or two of the other shares above and the total return has been pretty amazing ....... until this year. Luckily they were part of a very diversified portfolio.

It will be interesting to see what return the Welcome Trust reports for 21/22. Hopefully they too have a diversified portfolio but if they didn't sell Doordash, Vonovia and Meta quickly it will have taken a hit.

regards

Howard

Even with an investment portfolio of around £36 billion, a drop of $750 million is not insignificant but I guess they can be philosophical about their losses on the back of the huge gain in the previous year. Anyway they are now coming to the end of their FY so it will be interesting to see what the up to date figures look like.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:Even with an investment portfolio of around £36 billion, a drop of $750 million is not insignificant but I guess they can be philosophical about their losses on the back of the huge gain in the previous year. Anyway they are now coming to the end of their FY so it will be interesting to see what the up to date figures look like.

Dod

Not so hot I think.

Looking at their annual report, their US investments appear to have dropped 23.7% in real terms in the year to Sept 2022.

Over the whole portfolio – "in USD terms the portfolio was down -15.8%".

This wasn't unexpected given their higher risk holdings.

I'm looking at page 27 onwards, see link below. Others more financially orientated than me might find more to comment on.

Terry Smith's Fundsmith performance over 10 years at more than 15% growth per annum appears to be a bit better than Wellcome's investment managers'? I guess that will be a comfort to a lot of LemonFools who hold Terry's fund (size £22.5 billion so not that much smaller than Wellcome's).

regards

Howard

https://cms.wellcome.org/sites/default/ ... s-2022.pdf

Howard wrote:

Dod101 wrote:Even with an investment portfolio of around £36 billion, a drop of $750 million is not insignificant but I guess they can be philosophical about their losses on the back of the huge gain in the previous year. Anyway they are now coming to the end of their FY so it will be interesting to see what the up to date figures look like.

Dod

Not so hot I think.

Looking at their annual report, their US investments appear to have dropped 23.7% in real terms in the year to Sept 2022.

Over the whole portfolio – "in USD terms the portfolio was down -15.8%".

This wasn't unexpected given their higher risk holdings.

I'm looking at page 27 onwards, see link below. Others more financially orientated than me might find more to comment on.

Terry Smith's Fundsmith performance over 10 years at more than 15% growth per annum appears to be a bit better than Wellcome's investment managers'? I guess that will be a comfort to a lot of LemonFools who hold Terry's fund (size £22.5 billion so not that much smaller than Wellcome's).

regards

Howard

https://cms.wellcome.org/sites/default/ ... s-2022.pdf

And he takes almost 1% in charges!

Dod

Dod101 wrote:

Howard wrote:

Dod101 wrote:Even with an investment portfolio of around £36 billion, a drop of $750 million is not insignificant but I guess they can be philosophical about their losses on the back of the huge gain in the previous year. Anyway they are now coming to the end of their FY so it will be interesting to see what the up to date figures look like.

Dod

Not so hot I think.

Looking at their annual report, their US investments appear to have dropped 23.7% in real terms in the year to Sept 2022.

Over the whole portfolio – "in USD terms the portfolio was down -15.8%".

This wasn't unexpected given their higher risk holdings.

I'm looking at page 27 onwards, see link below. Others more financially orientated than me might find more to comment on.

Terry Smith's Fundsmith performance over 10 years at more than 15% growth per annum appears to be a bit better than Wellcome's investment managers'? I guess that will be a comfort to a lot of LemonFools who hold Terry's fund (size £22.5 billion so not that much smaller than Wellcome's).

regards

Howard

https://cms.wellcome.org/sites/default/ ... s-2022.pdf

And he takes almost 1% in charges!

Dod

But has achieved superior (net) results for his customers! I'm happy to have paid for his expertise. It's interesting that private investors have been able to access long term results better than such a large institutional investor, who presumably pays quite a lot for investment expertise.

regards

Howard

Dod101 wrote:This charity does not I think get the attention that it deserves. The numbers are quite staggering. Assets at 30 September 2021, its last year end, were £36.2 billion, with an investment return for that year of 34.5%. Expense relating to investment management was £186 million, totally insignificant. Imagine the cost of Terry Smith managing the fund. Of course they are charging only the direct cost of managing the funds but even so.

Not only that, they have managed 15.2% per annum over the last 10 years.

They do not fundraise from the public and spend over £1 billion per annum on their charitable work.

Full details, just Google Welcome Trust Annual report.

Sadly, yet again, Wellcome Trust investment performance wasn’t very good in 2023 according to their annual report. Their assets have pretty well stood still since you reported their 2021 position.

Maybe they should have asked Terry Smith to manage their funds? He might have given them a discount.

Fundsmith has achieved a total return of more than 20% since the beginning of 2021. Even if Terry charged 1%, with his approach, Wellcome assets would have been more than £6 billion higher now. Well worth paying his modest fees?

A developed world ETF would also have performed better at even lower cost?

Wellcome reported: “The total portfolio returned +0.9% in sterling (Figure 1) (2022: +1.7%), as we ended the year with a portfolio value of £36.8 billion (Figure 6) (2022: £37.8 billion). After taking account of £1.3 billion in charitable cash expenditure over the year, this is equivalent to a gain of £0.3 billion gross of liabilities. Sterling returns were significantly impeded by currency strength:”

After some high risk investments which performed badly a couple of years ago, Wellcome appear to be moving towards more of a HYP strategy?

“We have probably yet to see the full impact of higher interest rates in terms of debt defaults and broader economic impact. Our primary focus is on maintaining our cash flows to fund the mission. “

Have we amateur investors invested more successfully? Fundsmith and FCIT together with a number of managed funds/ITs and ETFs have performed well for me since 2021.

Wellcome Annual Report can be found at:

https://wellcome.org/news-and-reports/reports

regards

Howard