Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to tea42,yyuryyub,Howyoudoin,Anonymous,EverybodyKnows, for Donating to support the site

Card reader warning

Discussing offers, rates and deals on suppliers
malkymoo
Lemon Slice
Posts: 339
Joined: November 23rd, 2016, 9:45 am
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 99 times

Card reader warning

#494579

Postby malkymoo » April 15th, 2022, 8:56 pm

This is about the little card readers that banks issue to their customers to verify transactions. My account is with Nationwide, but other banks have similar readers, the ones I have seen all seems to be similar functionally.

I was using a reader to verify a PIN and it came up with a fail, I assumed that I had miskeyed and tried again. I came up with another fail message and a warning "last try". At this point I checked and realised that I was using the wrong card.

I got to wondering what would have happened if I had entered the PIN incorrectly the third time. As it happened I had just had a replacement card delivered so I had the old card to experiment with. I entered the PIN incorrectly three times and got the message "PIN blocked, contact issuer". I tried the card again in a different reader and got a similar message.

So be warned, if used carelessly these readers can block your card. I was surprised, I would not have expected these readers would be capable of writing to cards.

kempiejon
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2351
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 10:30 am
Been thanked: 729 times

Re: Card reader warning

#494589

Postby kempiejon » April 15th, 2022, 9:54 pm

malkymoo wrote:This is about the little card readers that banks issue to their customers to verify transactions. My account is with Nationwide, but other banks have similar readers, the ones I have seen all seems to be similar functionally.

I was using a reader to verify a PIN and it came up with a fail, I assumed that I had miskeyed and tried again. I came up with another fail message and a warning "last try". At this point I checked and realised that I was using the wrong card.

I got to wondering what would have happened if I had entered the PIN incorrectly the third time. As it happened I had just had a replacement card delivered so I had the old card to experiment with. I entered the PIN incorrectly three times and got the message "PIN blocked, contact issuer". I tried the card again in a different reader and got a similar message.

So be warned, if used carelessly these readers can block your card. I was surprised, I would not have expected these readers would be capable of writing to cards.


I did this with my Barclays account - I had to got to an ATM in town to re-activate it.

GrahamPlatt
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1417
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:40 am
Has thanked: 680 times
Been thanked: 532 times

Re: Card reader warning

#494592

Postby GrahamPlatt » April 15th, 2022, 10:45 pm

Interesting. Does this imply that all these cards & readers use the same technology, such that they can block cards from other issuers? E.g. if you put a NW card into a Barclays reader, it could also block it?

mc2fool
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4289
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:24 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 1565 times

Re: Card reader warning

#494595

Postby mc2fool » April 15th, 2022, 11:10 pm

malkymoo wrote:So be warned, if used carelessly these readers can block your card. I was surprised, I would not have expected these readers would be capable of writing to cards.

GrahamPlatt wrote:Interesting. Does this imply that all these cards & readers use the same technology, such that they can block cards from other issuers? E.g. if you put a NW card into a Barclays reader, it could also block it?

I always thought it was the other way round ... it's the chip on the card that's in charge, not the reader/ATM.

I think that when you enter the PIN on the reader or ATM it presents it to the chip and the chip says yeah or nay. If the chip has three wrong PINs presented to it it's the chip that then says no more and blocks any further attempts.

Gersemi
Lemon Slice
Posts: 360
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:57 pm
Has thanked: 419 times
Been thanked: 143 times

Re: Card reader warning

#494622

Postby Gersemi » April 16th, 2022, 8:50 am

GrahamPlatt wrote:Interesting. Does this imply that all these cards & readers use the same technology, such that they can block cards from other issuers? E.g. if you put a NW card into a Barclays reader, it could also block it?


Yes, all the card readers are essentially the same, you can use a card from any issuer in any reader, and it will work in the same way.

malkymoo
Lemon Slice
Posts: 339
Joined: November 23rd, 2016, 9:45 am
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 99 times

Re: Card reader warning

#494638

Postby malkymoo » April 16th, 2022, 10:45 am

mc2fool wrote:
malkymoo wrote:So be warned, if used carelessly these readers can block your card. I was surprised, I would not have expected these readers would be capable of writing to cards.

GrahamPlatt wrote:Interesting. Does this imply that all these cards & readers use the same technology, such that they can block cards from other issuers? E.g. if you put a NW card into a Barclays reader, it could also block it?

I always thought it was the other way round ... it's the chip on the card that's in charge, not the reader/ATM.

I think that when you enter the PIN on the reader or ATM it presents it to the chip and the chip says yeah or nay. If the chip has three wrong PINs presented to it it's the chip that then says no more and blocks any further attempts.


You are very likely correct, either way the result is the same!

tjh290633
Lemon Half
Posts: 7019
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:20 am
Has thanked: 732 times
Been thanked: 3041 times

Re: Card reader warning

#494732

Postby tjh290633 » April 16th, 2022, 11:28 pm

My experience has been that with Barclays, the PinSentry is fine for logging on to the websiteb usubf "Identify", but for setting up a new payee for online transfers it is useless, as the numbers it gives you for "Respond" never seem to be the ones which their system expects.

With Nationwide they ask you to use "Sign" and it works perfectly.

I have argued with Barclays about this many times, gone to their Help line, been transferred to their Technical side, and it gets no results. The app on my mobile does it with no problem, but the PinSentry is a total waste of time.

TJH

Gersemi
Lemon Slice
Posts: 360
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:57 pm
Has thanked: 419 times
Been thanked: 143 times

Re: Card reader warning

#494758

Postby Gersemi » April 17th, 2022, 10:19 am

tjh290633 wrote:My experience has been that with Barclays, the PinSentry is fine for logging on to the websiteb usubf "Identify", but for setting up a new payee for online transfers it is useless, as the numbers it gives you for "Respond" never seem to be the ones which their system expects.

With Nationwide they ask you to use "Sign" and it works perfectly.

I have argued with Barclays about this many times, gone to their Help line, been transferred to their Technical side, and it gets no results. The app on my mobile does it with no problem, but the PinSentry is a total waste of time.

TJH


Strange, I have never had any problem using the PinSentry to set up new payees.

XFool
Lemon Half
Posts: 9198
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 1358 times

Re: Card reader warning

#494804

Postby XFool » April 17th, 2022, 3:49 pm

Gersemi wrote:
GrahamPlatt wrote:Interesting. Does this imply that all these cards & readers use the same technology, such that they can block cards from other issuers? E.g. if you put a NW card into a Barclays reader, it could also block it?

Yes, all the card readers are essentially the same, you can use a card from any issuer in any reader, and it will work in the same way.

In principle yes (or does it have to be a Visa card with a Visa card reader? I only have Visa cards...), but the card needs to be authorised for use in a card reader. Presumably by the programming on the card's chip.

It seems OK to me that the card is disabled if three wrong PINs are entered. After all that is how Chip & PIN is intended to work, as with an ATM etc.
If not, then if someone got hold of your card they could use their own card reader to keep on trying until they found your PIN.

yorkshirelad1
Lemon Slice
Posts: 604
Joined: October 5th, 2018, 1:40 pm
Has thanked: 136 times
Been thanked: 181 times

Re: Card reader warning

#495161

Postby yorkshirelad1 » April 19th, 2022, 11:12 am

Funnily enough this happened to me too a week or so ago, then I realised I had inserted my Barclaycard instead of my Barclays debit card into my Barclays PIN Sentry. I sorted it, but in the process I also discovered that it might be necessary to press Enter when you get the "Last Try" error message, see for example https://www.barclays.co.uk/help/online-banking/pinsentry/last-pin-try/.

After sorting the matter, I did a little bit of testing with my Co-op smile card. Putting my Co-op smile card into my Barclays PIN sentry and entering the correct Smile card PIN generated the 8 digit code which is what I'd have expected, and not an error message. What I would have done with that 8-digit code, I do not know, and whether the Co-op smile website would have accepted it (even if it had ever asked for it), I have no idea.

XFool
Lemon Half
Posts: 9198
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 1358 times

Re: Card reader warning

#495164

Postby XFool » April 19th, 2022, 11:25 am

yorkshirelad1 wrote:After sorting the matter, I did a little bit of testing with my Co-op smile card. Putting my Co-op smile card into my Barclays PIN sentry and entering the correct Smile card PIN generated the 8 digit code which is what I'd have expected, and not an error message. What I would have done with that 8-digit code, I do not know, and whether the Co-op smile website would have accepted it (even if it had ever asked for it), I have no idea.

It would just have worked. I have logged on to my non Barclays bank account various times using my PINsentry reader. The machine doesn't matter - it's the card. At least it does with Visa cards, I have no Mastercard to try out. If the card is not enabled for use in a reader you get an error message: for the PINsentry reader 'THIS CARD IS NOT VALID' is displayed after you select a function, with another reader 'WRONG CARD' simply after card is inserted.

Gersemi
Lemon Slice
Posts: 360
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:57 pm
Has thanked: 419 times
Been thanked: 143 times

Re: Card reader warning

#495246

Postby Gersemi » April 19th, 2022, 5:02 pm

XFool wrote:It would just have worked. I have logged on to my non Barclays bank account various times using my PINsentry reader. The machine doesn't matter - it's the card. At least it does with Visa cards, I have no Mastercard to try out. If the card is not enabled for use in a reader you get an error message: for the PINsentry reader 'THIS CARD IS NOT VALID' is displayed after you select a function, with another reader 'WRONG CARD' simply after card is inserted.


I do have Mastercards as well as Visa cards. They work in the Barclays PinSentry.

XFool
Lemon Half
Posts: 9198
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 1358 times

Re: Card reader warning

#495249

Postby XFool » April 19th, 2022, 5:18 pm

OK. That's good to know. Thanks Gersemi.

pochisoldi
Lemon Slice
Posts: 772
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 379 times

Re: Card reader warning

#495272

Postby pochisoldi » April 19th, 2022, 7:07 pm

The card reader technology is described at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_Auth ... on_Program

The card readers all use the "EMV" system that Chip and Pin relies on.
They also need the "card reader" application on the chip. Insert a card without the "card reader" function and you get "Wrong Card".

From a quick test of cards I hold, I got a mix:
Bank 1: Debit card and credit card worked (even though credit card is not used for access)
Bank 2: Debit card worked, credit card didn't (even though neither card is used for access)
Bank 3: Neither debit not credit card worked.
"Worked" meant - allowed me to select a function and enter a PIN
"Didn't" meant "Wrong Card" straight away.
I've never seen a "this card is not valid" message,

If you lock the PIN in any non-ATM device (PIN pad, or card reader), then visit an ATM and use the unlock facility.
Note that there is only one "number of incorrect PIN tries" counter on each card - make one mistake at the pub, and immediately make another two with your card reader, then it's off to the ATM to fix it. (The counter gets reset when you enter the right pin)

All the card readers I've had over the years work with any card that works.

My hints:
1) If you don't use a card reader regularly, keep hold of the bit of plastic that you have to remove when you use it and reinstall it (easier to do on the Natwest/Nationwide model) to keep the battery from dying.
2) Got fat fingers - Barclay's PIN sentry - nice big keys
3) Got baby sized fingers - Nationwide or the NatWest reader (identical except for branding)
4) Got sight issues, but can just about use a standard reader? - Try a standard Barclays card reader - easy to locate slot, two bumps on the 5 key, the keys are arranged in a three column format, and better contrast on the number keys.
5) Got more severe sight problems or dexterity issues - Contact your bank for an accessible model (Barclays do those as well)

XFool
Lemon Half
Posts: 9198
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 1358 times

Re: Card reader warning

#508929

Postby XFool » June 22nd, 2022, 11:38 pm

I kind of got bitten by this today, I thought I'd hand on some useful advice that I didn't know (presumably not given in the simple explanation of Chip & PIN).

My Barclaycard failed twice today in a supermarket with an odd message on the POS terminal - I paid with another card.

At home, when I got round to trying it in the card reader I also found it wouldn't work. The message was: LAST TRY
So presumably I had entered it's PIN incorrectly twice before. But it wouldn't now respond to my putting in the correct PIN, it just kept showing the warning message.

I phoned the Barclaycard help number. Oh dear! This was very tortuous automatic system, recommending me to use "The App" - I don't have the App. Repeating, going from here to there, via phone banking - I have never had any Barclays bank accounts. Complete with pleas to "Please remember, the person who answers is not responsible for any delays". Eventually I reached a human. Gosh!

By which time I was in a position to immediately say to the women who answered, and to her amusement: "It's taken so long I have now sorted it out with the PINSentry machine". What had happened is I had pressed the CLEAR button on the card reader, this removed the warning message and allowed me to go ahead and, for the final try, enter the correct PIN. Everything now OK.

I assume this would also be the case at a POS terminal or an ATM. Worth remembering if ever faced with the same situation 'live'.


Return to “Bank Accounts Savings & ISAs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests