Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Banking for Eldery Mother - Lloyds etc.

Discussing offers, rates and deals on suppliers
mearnsfool
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 185
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 5:29 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 52 times

Re: Banking for Eldery Mother - Lloyds etc.

#377150

Postby mearnsfool » January 14th, 2021, 3:46 pm

Sorry a bit late coming to the thread but using your mums bank account or other relatives bank accounts no matter if they agree or not without the relevant relatives having their own signed up access to that person’s bank account without the agreement of the bank is not just a technical braking of the bank rules, it is fraud end of story.

No matter how much of a pain this is for a relative who may live many miles away or does not want to go to the bother of doing this. You must formalise the shared operation of the relative’s account.

chas49
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1935
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:25 am
Has thanked: 216 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: Banking for Eldery Mother - Lloyds etc.

#377155

Postby chas49 » January 14th, 2021, 4:02 pm

JohnB wrote:Invoking a PoA requires an assertion of loss of capacity


That's not strictly correct. A Property and financial affairs lasting power of attorney can be used as soon as it's registered without having to declare that the donor has lost capacity. It is possible to write the LPA so that it only 'works' if the donor has lost capacity, but it's not a requirement. Nevertheless, banks might not understand this (although they should).

yorkshirelad1
Lemon Slice
Posts: 906
Joined: October 5th, 2018, 1:40 pm
Has thanked: 176 times
Been thanked: 299 times

Re: Banking for Eldery Mother - Lloyds etc.

#377441

Postby yorkshirelad1 » January 15th, 2021, 11:45 am

Coming late to the party on this one.

POA might be a bit of a sledgehammer which sometimes the banks have difficulty implementing.

Some banks (Barclays have this) have "Third Party Authority" forms of their own making (which they understand better) which permits the account holder to appoint someone else to have access to and manage their bank accounts (one/all of: phone banking / online banking / branch banking etc). This could be far simpler for you than the full blown POA if it gives you access to the bank accounts and achieves what you want.

I have third party authority for my sister's accounts which I have a watching brief over and can do basic tasks if necessary.

neversay
Lemon Slice
Posts: 628
Joined: January 27th, 2017, 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 1152 times
Been thanked: 283 times

Re: Banking for Eldery Mother - Lloyds etc.

#377456

Postby neversay » January 15th, 2021, 12:19 pm

yorkshirelad1 wrote:Coming late to the party on this one.

POA might be a bit of a sledgehammer which sometimes the banks have difficulty implementing.

Some banks (Barclays have this) have "Third Party Authority" forms of their own making (which they understand better) which permits the account holder to appoint someone else to have access to and manage their bank accounts (one/all of: phone banking / online banking / branch banking etc). This could be far simpler for you than the full blown POA if it gives you access to the bank accounts and achieves what you want.

I have third party authority for my sister's accounts which I have a watching brief over and can do basic tasks if necessary.


OP here. It's timely that this popped-up again as I did do an interim measure of setting up the Lloyds online banking user her details (with her express permission and agreement of my brother as co-LPA holder). It worked out well to begin with and I could pay her cleaners etc using that account rather than my pay them from mine. However, one transaction (or a random nth transaction) tripped their security procedures to require a phone call to verify the transaction, until which time the online account payments are on hold. Now I'm in a bind as she lives 90 miles away, is shielding and would get very confused going through the security process.

So at present I'm back paying her expenses out of my account until which time we can either unblock the online banking or when it's safe to visit a branch and do the process formally (ideally using the "Third Party Authority" route as you suggest).

Once again I'm very grateful for all your support.

paulnumbers
Lemon Slice
Posts: 442
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:15 am
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: Banking for Eldery Mother - Lloyds etc.

#377457

Postby paulnumbers » January 15th, 2021, 12:22 pm

neversay wrote:
yorkshirelad1 wrote:Coming late to the party on this one.

POA might be a bit of a sledgehammer which sometimes the banks have difficulty implementing.

Some banks (Barclays have this) have "Third Party Authority" forms of their own making (which they understand better) which permits the account holder to appoint someone else to have access to and manage their bank accounts (one/all of: phone banking / online banking / branch banking etc). This could be far simpler for you than the full blown POA if it gives you access to the bank accounts and achieves what you want.

I have third party authority for my sister's accounts which I have a watching brief over and can do basic tasks if necessary.


OP here. It's timely that this popped-up again as I did do an interim measure of setting up the Lloyds online banking user her details (with her express permission and agreement of my brother as co-LPA holder). It worked out well to begin with and I could pay her cleaners etc using that account rather than my pay them from mine. However, one transaction (or a random nth transaction) tripped their security procedures to require a phone call to verify the transaction, until which time the online account payments are on hold. Now I'm in a bind as she lives 90 miles away, is shielding and would get very confused going through the security process.

So at present I'm back paying her expenses out of my account until which time we can either unblock the online banking or when it's safe to visit a branch and do the process formally (ideally using the "Third Party Authority" route as you suggest).

Once again I'm very grateful for all your support.


Once you get the Lloyds account working again, I'd suggest perhaps installing the app on your phone, you can then be notified immediately of any debit card payments.


Image

neversay
Lemon Slice
Posts: 628
Joined: January 27th, 2017, 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 1152 times
Been thanked: 283 times

Re: Banking for Eldery Mother - Lloyds etc.

#377459

Postby neversay » January 15th, 2021, 12:27 pm

Thanks @paulnumbers. I did install the phone app and it is very good (much better than my HSBC one).

It's a good observation is that a secondary reason for doing online banking is to watch out for charges or potential fraud on her account. I already moved money to her savings so there's less in the current account for anyone to plunder. She's trusting and kind-hearted so very vulnerable to the despicable fraudsters out there.

paulnumbers
Lemon Slice
Posts: 442
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:15 am
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: Banking for Eldery Mother - Lloyds etc.

#377504

Postby paulnumbers » January 15th, 2021, 2:22 pm

neversay wrote:Thanks @paulnumbers. I did install the phone app and it is very good (much better than my HSBC one).

It's a good observation is that a secondary reason for doing online banking is to watch out for charges or potential fraud on her account. I already moved money to her savings so there's less in the current account for anyone to plunder. She's trusting and kind-hearted so very vulnerable to the despicable fraudsters out there.


Yeah this is an ever presenter danger as people age.

My better half is in the process of buying a flat in central London. It turned out there was damp on a party wall, but the adjoining property by all accounts was abandoned. So we went to some lengths to find the owner who turned out to be an 88 year old lady in a posh flat in South Ken.

We sent a letter, asking if she could provide access to verify if the damp was coming from her side. Surprisingly, we received a phone call back saying "pop around, I'll give you key, you can go and check". It transpired that she had dementia and probably a little over trusting of strangers writing her letters, she had no children to look after her. Quite a sad state of affairs to end up in, and one I imagine I will be in eventually if they don't manage to cure dementia (although more likely to be overly distrusting!)

steelman99
Lemon Pip
Posts: 86
Joined: September 5th, 2017, 7:51 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Banking for Eldery Mother - Lloyds etc.

#378218

Postby steelman99 » January 18th, 2021, 7:39 am

Dont know if it helps but I have POA for my mum & until he passed away for my dad with Lloyds , and its was simple to administer , when i logged onto online bnking I had a tab at the top to view other accounts , which when I clicked on it I could see either my mum accounts or my dads . Was possible to do all their banking for them as though I was them - they both stll had debit cards and at times used them . I wa offered a debit card on the accout but never took one as not needed

Only issuee I ever had was that if a password reset was required it had to be done with a phone call as well as online

also had POA with accounts with Nat west, Santander and Nationwide , and found Lloyds the easiest to use

Nat west just reconised I had POA but didnt give me access to onlinr banking , Nat west I could see and transact on the accounts , but annoyingly all DD & Bill payments were listed alongside my own so could be confusing - Sanander was ok , but you couldnt make same day transfers - but all were usable

neversay
Lemon Slice
Posts: 628
Joined: January 27th, 2017, 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 1152 times
Been thanked: 283 times

Re: Banking for Eldery Mother - Lloyds etc.

#378273

Postby neversay » January 18th, 2021, 10:45 am

steelman99 wrote:Dont know if it helps but I have POA for my mum & until he passed away for my dad with Lloyds , and its was simple to administer , when i logged onto online bnking I had a tab at the top to view other accounts , which when I clicked on it I could see either my mum accounts or my dads . Was possible to do all their banking for them as though I was them - they both stll had debit cards and at times used them . I wa offered a debit card on the accout but never took one as not needed

Only issuee I ever had was that if a password reset was required it had to be done with a phone call as well as online

also had POA with accounts with Nat west, Santander and Nationwide , and found Lloyds the easiest to use

Nat west just reconised I had POA but didnt give me access to onlinr banking , Nat west I could see and transact on the accounts , but annoyingly all DD & Bill payments were listed alongside my own so could be confusing - Sanander was ok , but you couldnt make same day transfers - but all were usable


Thanks @steelman99. I'll look into the more formal route through Lloyds. Their online banking systems to be more coherent and polished than HSBC's that, until recently, felt like it was a poor interface onto several back office systems.

gryffron
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3606
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:00 am
Has thanked: 550 times
Been thanked: 1585 times

Re: Banking for Eldery Mother - Lloyds etc.

#379519

Postby gryffron » January 22nd, 2021, 6:58 am

Could you not achieve everything you want with a simple joint account. Perfectly legit for you both to have controlling access. I would have thought much simpler than POA or 3PA. You can make sure there's just enough money for her everyday spending, with (notified) topups from an account you control.

Gryff

JohnB
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2497
Joined: January 15th, 2017, 9:20 am
Has thanked: 677 times
Been thanked: 997 times

Re: Banking for Eldery Mother - Lloyds etc.

#379524

Postby JohnB » January 22nd, 2021, 8:04 am

I've always thought joint accounts were a bad idea if there was any issue of inheritance tax, because it blurs the estate boundaries. Similarly the mother giving the son money to pay household bills. I always try to use Mum's accounts to pay for things, and keep a running tally of anything I pay for and ask her for cash to cover it.

neversay
Lemon Slice
Posts: 628
Joined: January 27th, 2017, 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 1152 times
Been thanked: 283 times

Re: Banking for Eldery Mother - Lloyds etc.

#379716

Postby neversay » January 22nd, 2021, 4:53 pm

Thanks for all your kind follow-ups. It has raised more issues than I expected.

Your suggestions are particularly appreciated as it has been difficult providing support to her at a distance given the current situation.


Return to “Bank Accounts Savings & ISAs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests