The Lemon Fool

"I transferred £25k life savings to TSB but months on it is still asking for proof of where the money is from, leaving me in debt":

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/exp ... money.html

GeoffF100 wrote:"I transferred £25k life savings to TSB but months on it is still asking for proof of where the money is from, leaving me in debt":

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/exp ... money.html

Alarming. And partly why I keep initial transactions with any entity to a minimal value until I am satisfied that there's a smooth path end to end.
I suppose at any point they can arbitrarily change whatever level they choose as a trigger - but it gives me peace of mind to see a test working before I throw all the eggs go in the basket

The use of the second-person narration is also a bit horrific.

-sd

servodude wrote:

GeoffF100 wrote:"I transferred £25k life savings to TSB but months on it is still asking for proof of where the money is from, leaving me in debt":

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/exp ... money.html

Alarming. And partly why I keep initial transactions with any entity to a minimal value until I am satisfied that there's a smooth path end to end.
I suppose at any point they can arbitrarily change whatever level they choose as a trigger - but it gives me peace of mind to see a test working before I throw all the eggs go in the basket

The use of the second-person narration is also a bit horrific.

-sd

Yes, it was a big mistake to transfer everything and close the first account. One thing I've learned is that, given the increasing problems with opening accounts these days, one should never close a bank account. It also pays to spread funds around via the new fintech banks and EMIs, e.g. Monzo, Starling, Wise etc.

Steve

not closing your current account before opening new one is the main reason I have never switched
in the small print (T and Cs) they often have extra issues

eg (and only as example no grief with them at all)
transfer to First Direct....as rec'd by almost every switch site for service etc etc...+ £100 or so
but
they require certified ID documents..photo and address etc....'certified' !

but if you hadnt read all T and Cs and already closed your current accout, you would be stuck waiting to be approved!

of course its not clear if they actually do the ID check, but better to be safe me thinks!

I have to say I think I'd be onto my solicitor after about a week of a new bank refusing to give me access to my funds.

Mike4 wrote:I have to say I think I'd be onto my solicitor after about a week of a new bank refusing to give me access to my funds.

But what the bank is asking for proof that they are actually *your* funds, and you are not acting as a money mule or facilitating some other scam where you are passing *someone else's* money through that new account.

Anyway, the story of someone who has fallen out with their existing bank for unspecified reasons and oddly the first transaction with the new bank is the deposit of £25k and not a pay cheque or something else more normal - sorry, not getting a lot of sympathy here.

An issue stated in the article was that the reader could not get premium bond statements with their name on them. I do not have a premium bond account, but I do have National Savings Certificates. I get paper statements with my name and address on them. I would have thought that a bank statement showing the money coming from NS&I and going to TSB would have resolved the source of funds issue.

AF62 wrote:

Mike4 wrote:I have to say I think I'd be onto my solicitor after about a week of a new bank refusing to give me access to my funds.

But what the bank is asking for proof that they are actually *your* funds, and you are not acting as a money mule or facilitating some other scam where you are passing *someone else's* money through that new account.

Anyway, the story of someone who has fallen out with their existing bank for unspecified reasons and oddly the first transaction with the new bank is the deposit of £25k and not a pay cheque or something else more normal - sorry, not getting a lot of sympathy here.

Although I hate to admit it, given the constant stream of banks in court, I can understand that they may be suspicious if a large amount of cash is paid in to an account or funds deposited from foreign sources. But where a deposit originates from a well-known UK source, surely there should be no problem. In that case, shouldn't they be asking the bank?

Re. asking your solicitor, TSB is owned by a Spanish bank, so good luck!


Steve

stevensfo wrote:

AF62 wrote:

Mike4 wrote:I have to say I think I'd be onto my solicitor after about a week of a new bank refusing to give me access to my funds.

But what the bank is asking for proof that they are actually *your* funds, and you are not acting as a money mule or facilitating some other scam where you are passing *someone else's* money through that new account.

Anyway, the story of someone who has fallen out with their existing bank for unspecified reasons and oddly the first transaction with the new bank is the deposit of £25k and not a pay cheque or something else more normal - sorry, not getting a lot of sympathy here.

Although I hate to admit it, given the constant stream of banks in court, I can understand that they may be suspicious if a large amount of cash is paid in to an account or funds deposited from foreign sources. But where a deposit originates from a well-known UK source, surely there should be no problem. In that case, shouldn't they be asking the bank?

Steve

The money mules 'hop' the money through a number of accounts to make it more difficult to recover, so just because it came from a UK bank doesn't make it 'clean'.

This is me and my ignorance showing here but...

this account that has been closed. You still have the account details presumably? Why can't the bank/organisation concerned just verify that you extracted the money from it on date X ?

didds wrote:This is me and my ignorance showing here but...

this account that has been closed. You still have the account details presumably? Why can't the bank/organisation concerned just verify that you extracted the money from it on date X ?

TSB was not satisfied with that. They wanted to know where the money came from before it entered the old current account. We have been told that it came from NS&I, but TSB was not satisfied with the evidence provided.

I nearly had a problem where our children received some money from my elderly parents.

Where did the offspring get the money? Says the institution concerned.

From their grandparents,I reply. You know that. You have their grandparents account too. You know them personally, and have looked after their finances for many decades.

Ah but where did their grandparents get the money? They ask.

Well my dad worked all his life and I dare say he inherited a bit many decades ago.

Hm. Eventually they grudgingly relented. As far as I could tell they must have been hoping to see my dad's bank statements and an employer reference from the 1970s as proof he'd had an honest job. Plus probably proof of amounts inherited in the 1960s.

I am genuinely worried what might happen if I ever tried to, say, transfer my ISA to a new provider. These regulations seem a real threat to having my assets frozen with nothing I can do about it.

It's all very worrying. I have a couple of bank accounts with large-ish balances that have just accumulated in a variety of ways over many years, mostly to do with spending less than I earn from self employment, along with renting and buying and selling of houses.

I remember selling a car once and paying in £2.5k into my bank account at the branch. The bank teller really took some convincing to take the cash, asking for proof it was the proceeds of selling the car which as you can imagine, I could not provide. She kept explaining her questions were because of the money laundering regulations.

During the discussion I found myself wondering what would happen if I changed tack and said "Ok you've smoked me out. I'm Mr Big and it's the proceeds of a drug deal I've just done and I need to launder it. Now you know where I really got it from, can I pay it in?"

Midsmartin wrote:I am genuinely worried what might happen if I ever tried to, say, transfer my ISA to a new provider. These regulations seem a real threat to having my assets frozen with nothing I can do about it.

I have not had any problems transferring S&S ISAs or a SIPP. I do not recall being asked source of funds questions for that. I regularly open savings accounts and transfer in large amounts of cash. I am just asked to tick a box, saying the money comes from savings.

I would be very reluctant to move my Santander current account, which I have held since it was Abbey National Building Society. It would be a nightmare anyway, because it is the nominated account for so many other accounts. It is best not to risk becoming a shady character.

this 'nominated account' plan as used by many building societies is an absolute nightmare

most societies, and some banks have a max amount that you can transfer each day (online)
so having put money into an account paying decent (???) interest...it sits, until that society drops the rate
then in order to get it to your next preferred account you have to send limited amounts each days to your nominated account
before then, (often again with daily limits) moving it to new destination account

quite apart from the inconvenience of having to make so many actions

its almost impossible to retain a paper trail for IHT purposes...I mean...transfers large (?) during past 7 years

eg...moving £100,000 might well mean 5 x £20,000 to nominated bank..then more to get to intended account
and thats just to move the money once!

Just thinking about all this lot, I am beginning to wonder what might happen when I pop my clogs. I am contemplating setting up bequests to my children such that they will receive circa £100K each. Given that the children would be able to show where their lump sums came from, should I then expect that they will be third degreed as to where I got the money? Just for the record it was a combination of insurance policy payouts, early retirement payouts, bequests from my parents (and that alone could cause problems in trying to prove it) and fortunate investing in investment trusts over the last 25 years or so, etc etc. All legal and above board, but how to prove it? Given the paucity of documentation these days in favour of downloads, I fear that I, never mind the children, would have a difficult time proving it. Plus I don't know how much original documantation I have.

Worried of "up north" !,

ten0rman

GeoffF100 wrote:

didds wrote:This is me and my ignorance showing here but...

this account that has been closed. You still have the account details presumably? Why can't the bank/organisation concerned just verify that you extracted the money from it on date X ?

TSB was not satisfied with that. They wanted to know where the money came from before it entered the old current account. We have been told that it came from NS&I, but TSB was not satisfied with the evidence provided.

so if it came from bank A, whuich was funded from bank B which was funded from bank C, whuich was funded by bank D..... by bank Z

they wouldnt be satisfied becasue they'd want to know where it came from 30 years ago?

And if greatr uncle bert gifted it to you, then died... theyd still want to know where great uncle bert got it ?

FFS!

(I share your pain now I understand fully!)

ten0rman wrote:Just thinking about all this lot, I am beginning to wonder what might happen when I pop my clogs. I am contemplating setting up bequests to my children such that they will receive circa £100K each. Given that the children would be able to show where their lump sums came from, should I then expect that they will be third degreed as to where I got the money?

No. I wouldn't expect that, nor worry about it.

What you probably need to do is to make clear to your eventual inheritors that they should keep documentation indefinitely to show where they got the money. The keep-recorfs-for-six years advice isn't enough

AF62 wrote:

stevensfo wrote:

AF62 wrote:

Mike4 wrote:I have to say I think I'd be onto my solicitor after about a week of a new bank refusing to give me access to my funds.

But what the bank is asking for proof that they are actually *your* funds, and you are not acting as a money mule or facilitating some other scam where you are passing *someone else's* money through that new account.

Anyway, the story of someone who has fallen out with their existing bank for unspecified reasons and oddly the first transaction with the new bank is the deposit of £25k and not a pay cheque or something else more normal - sorry, not getting a lot of sympathy here.

Although I hate to admit it, given the constant stream of banks in court, I can understand that they may be suspicious if a large amount of cash is paid in to an account or funds deposited from foreign sources. But where a deposit originates from a well-known UK source, surely there should be no problem. In that case, shouldn't they be asking the bank?

Steve

The money mules 'hop' the money through a number of accounts to make it more difficult to recover, so just because it came from a UK bank doesn't make it 'clean'.

I've been following the financial news for many years and from what I read, the amounts transferred are usually well over 25,000 and the accounts raise suspicion because they have not been open for very long. The take-home message is that the serious money launderers and corrupt organisations are well-known to the authorities. I think this is pretty much obvious.

The pressures on the law-abiding people who wouldn't know what AML was if it bit them on the bum, is more to do with the smoke and mirrors damage limitation that started after the financial crisis. Banks have to at least pretend that they're taking it all very seriously, while letting the corruption continue, including using offshore companies to purchase properties and pay salaries.

Steve