Not dealing with MS

[Dod101]

You cynics will say why I do I pay MS £59.99 a year for their 365 suite of programs. Set that to one side. My current problem is that two days ago my annual sub was due and was automatically paid to MS. Trouble is that they did the same in early July. At the time, I thought that they had just taken it early. They have now had two payments over about six weeks. I looked at my subscription history on the MS website and there is no acknowledgement of the July payment, so having spent about an hour on the phone to my bank they have now provisionally refunded the July payment. I suspect there is either a simple mix up or some sort of fraud. The bank gave me the impression that trouble with MS was not that uncommon.

Rightly or wrongly I pay the annual sub via my Visa Debit card, not a Direct Debit and MS hold the details. I do not remember why because it was set up some years back. My bank has now cancelled the card. No bad thing because it is likely that many merchants have details of it one way or another. The effect will be that for the next year i will need to reset a number of payment channels. Obviously I have been unhappy giving MS access to my card but I must at the time have been persuaded that that was the best way to handle it.

Anyone got any suggestions/comments particularly on how to handle payments to MS?

Dod

[88V8]

Anyone got any suggestions/comments particularly on how to handle payments to MS?

Well, all my regulars are DDs or Paypal.

I have a CC which I use for online, Customer-Not-Present and I-don't-like-the-guy-behind-the-counter. It has a low limit.

I don't expose my 'good' CC to such situations.

V8

[servodude]

Anyone got any suggestions/comments particularly on how to handle payments to MS?

Well, all my regulars are DDs or Paypal.

I have a CC which I use for online, Customer-Not-Present and I-don't-like-the-guy-behind-the-counter. It has a low limit.

I don't expose my 'good' CC to such situations.

V8

Same.
But it also sounds like Dod might need to check that he has a unique MS account; just to be sure it's not two Dods being billed incorrectly.

[Dod101]

Well, all my regulars are DDs or Paypal.

I have a CC which I use for online, Customer-Not-Present and I-don't-like-the-guy-behind-the-counter. It has a low limit.

I don't expose my 'good' CC to such situations.

V8

Same.
But it also sounds like Dod might need to check that he has a unique MS account; just to be sure it's not two Dods being billed incorrectly.

That had not occurred to me. I hope the bank may have more luck than me in dealing with MS. Trying to deal with them is like wading through treacle.

Dod

[SebsCat]

Anyone got any suggestions/comments particularly on how to handle payments to MS?

Cancel the automatic subscription option and in future when you need to renew buy a licence from eg Amazon. The 1 year, 1 user licence at Amazon is currently £46 and has been as low as £40 in the past year. You can sometimes get it even cheaper when bundled with anti-virus (which you don't need to install). I pay for the Family 5 user licence this way - my last licence cost £51 for 15 months.

[pje16]

I loathe direct debits like that, as it just too easy to let them take the money, and you may not even be aware or not be until it is too late to do anything.

Just pay manually, I set reminders up in my Google Calendar (and a nice bonus is that Alexa reads them out on the day)

[genou]

Anyone got any suggestions/comments particularly on how to handle payments to MS?

Cancel the automatic subscription option and in future when you need to renew buy a licence from eg Amazon. The 1 year, 1 user licence at Amazon is currently £46 and has been as low as £40 in the past year. You can sometimes get it even cheaper when bundled with anti-virus (which you don't need to install). I pay for the Family 5 user licence this way - my last licence cost £51 for 15 months.

This. I think it is worth pointing out that you can buy the licence when it is cheap and install it immediately - it simply extends the expiry date of your subscription.

[XFool]

The bank gave me the impression that trouble with MS was not that uncommon.

[Lanark]

Another reason to prefer the perpetual licence
https://www.mssoftware.co.uk/microsoft- ... 2916-p.asp

[Howard]

I have bought two office packages from Livecards for two PCs recently. Currently they are charging £8.25 for a one user PC MS Office 2021 full suite of programmes. Previously about five years ago I bought a similar download via Amazon and it is still working well.

The process is that you buy a one-off download. Once loaded on your PC (which takes only a few minutes if one has modest speed fibre internet) you do have to validate the multi digit code with Microsoft which is a simple process. Only disadvantage is that the version of Office loaded stays with your PC and is not transferable to another machine.

Why pay a fortune for 365? And the monthly payment hassle? Livecards chat was helpful when I made the first purchase.

regards

Howard

[Fluke]

I loathe direct debits like that, as it just too easy to let them take the money, and you may not even be aware or not be until it is too late to do anything.

Just pay manually, I set reminders up in my Google Calendar (and a nice bonus is that Alexa reads them out on the day)

I have this type of arrangement with a magazine that I've been subscribing to for a few years but a little while ago I unsubscribed because I wasn't really reading it anymore. They lured me back with a to good to refuse offer of having the magazine pretty much for free for a few weeks then £1 a week for another couple of months. I thought I might as well take them up on this offer with a note in the calendar to unsubscribe again when the offer period ends. This thread prompted me to check if they'd taken payment yet for the £1/week period, they had, in late July, and yet the merchant is not set up in my account as a scheduled payee. So if it's not a direct debit what is it? and if it is, why isn't it listed along with the phone, utility co's etc, with whom I also have a monthly dd arrangement?

And something else that's just occurred to me is that they take payment for the next period a month in advance, so a month before the end of the offer period they'll take payment of the full monthly amount and I won't be able to do anything about it other than cancel my subscription with them before this date and even then they might still take the payment. They will repay any over payment I'm sure but I just don't like the lack of control.

[swill453]

I have this type of arrangement with a magazine that I've been subscribing to for a few years but a little while ago I unsubscribed because I wasn't really reading it anymore. They lured me back with a to good to refuse offer of having the magazine pretty much for free for a few weeks then £1 a week for another couple of months. I thought I might as well take them up on this offer with a note in the calendar to unsubscribe again when the offer period ends. This thread prompted me to check if they'd taken payment yet for the £1/week period, they had, in late July, and yet the merchant is not set up in my account as a scheduled payee. So if it's not a direct debit what is it? and if it is, why isn't it listed along with the phone, utility co's etc, with whom I also have a monthly dd arrangement?

It's not a Direct Debit then, it'll be a debit card continuous payment authority. See https://www.moneysupermarket.com/credit ... authority/ for how they work.

You should be able to cancel it either with the merchant or with your bank. The former will be easier if they're cooperative.

Scott.

[Fluke]

I have this type of arrangement with a magazine that I've been subscribing to for a few years but a little while ago I unsubscribed because I wasn't really reading it anymore. They lured me back with a to good to refuse offer of having the magazine pretty much for free for a few weeks then £1 a week for another couple of months. I thought I might as well take them up on this offer with a note in the calendar to unsubscribe again when the offer period ends. This thread prompted me to check if they'd taken payment yet for the £1/week period, they had, in late July, and yet the merchant is not set up in my account as a scheduled payee. So if it's not a direct debit what is it? and if it is, why isn't it listed along with the phone, utility co's etc, with whom I also have a monthly dd arrangement?

It's not a Direct Debit then, it'll be a debit card continuous payment authority. See https://www.moneysupermarket.com/credit ... authority/ for how they work.

You should be able to cancel it either with the merchant or with your bank. The former will be easier if they're cooperative.

Scott.

That explains it Scott, thank you. I don't think I'd heard of CPA's and certainly didn't understand the difference between them and direct debits. That's a very useful table. I'm pretty sure I don't have any others, the phone, broadband etc are all direct debits and they are listed as such in my account. The invisibility of it within your bank account and the fact that when you subscribe it doesn't say we are going to set this up as a 'continuous payment authority' is that ok, makes it all a bit murky. I see also on the link that there are quite a few more risks associated with this payment method compared with DD's and SO's.

The merchant is perfectly fine, I'll just have to cancel my subscription a month early to prevent any further payment being taken in advance of the offer period ending.

[bungeejumper]

Cancel the automatic subscription option and in future when you need to renew buy a licence from eg Amazon. The 1 year, 1 user licence at Amazon is currently £46 and has been as low as £40 in the past year. You can sometimes get it even cheaper when bundled with anti-virus (which you don't need to install). I pay for the Family 5 user licence this way - my last licence cost £51 for 15 months.

Thirded. I also buy a five-user 365 licence every year, of which I generally end up using three or four. (The other members of my family have their own logins, so they can't read my stuff or my history and I can't read theirs.) And each user can use the app on up to five devices, I think. I think I paid £60 this year, but deals are often available for less. As said, you buy them and then activate them whenever you like - you don't need to wait until your expiry date.

I only buy 365 through Amazon, because of the consumer protections. (Or from Argos, which costs a little more.) Of course, there are always plenty of smaller retailers who'll sell you a working licence for an app for twenty quid, but I'm never quite sure where they came from - and I've always worried that some of them might not be as kosher as they might appear?

Suppose, for example, that an employer somewhere has bought a 50-user licence, and an employee decides to cash in a couple of them by selling them to an intermediariy? You might not know that until something unexpected happens. (I had one once which suddenly went "unrecognised")

Paranoid? Maybe. Here's what Office Watch (https://office-watch.com/2023/ultra-che ... e%20extras.) says:

If someone is selling $400 software for $60 or less, there’s something strange happening. After all, that’s way under either the wholesale or high-volume license cost.

Somehow the seller is getting their licenses very cheaply to sell for such low prices and still make money.

The best we can tell is that you’re buying a legitimate product key sold by Microsoft to some large organization. Sometimes companies buy more licenses/keys than they need and you’re buying one of the extras.

But are these excess licenses being sold by the original purchaser? It’s hard to understand why a company would sell off licenses for a pittance, assuming they are allowed to resell them at all. It seems more likely this is an under-the-table deal, perhaps by staff in the organizations?

You pays your money and you takes your choice chances!

BJ

[Urbandreamer]

I wasn't going to comment about 365, because Dod made it clear that the thread was about paying MS for what he chose.

However I had to respond, given the debate about how to buy MS office.
There are VERY good free alternatives out there. LibreOffice is one of the better known.

Ok,I can think of reasons to chose MS office.
I.E exchanging files with a group of people who all use 365 (though I'd question using a older copy of MS office for that).
Or giving power point lectures. Sure there are many good alternatives, but you may likely end up sharing your slides with 365 users.

However I'm far from convinced by the FUD that says you must buy 365 to avoid "non kosher" apps.

Now I'm well aware that people who routinely pay their 365 subscription are unlikely to change. However I would specifically recommend any that are having problems with Microsoft consider doing so.

[Lanark]

Of course, there are always plenty of smaller retailers who'll sell you a working licence for an app for twenty quid, but I'm never quite sure where they came from - and I've always worried that some of them might not be as kosher as they might appear?

Microsoft don't like 3rd party resellers, but they lost an important and expensive lawsuit on this a few years ago, which means that in the UK they cannot prevent competition.

As to where the software comes from, I think they are often corporate deals, someone buys 100,000 copies and gets a bargain price from Microsoft (often around £10 per head), but they only use 80,000 so they sell off the spare codes to a reseller.

There are of course still some dodgy fly-by-night sites selling cracked software on places like Ebay, but those tend to get shutdown within a month or 2 at most. So if you bookmark a website and then go back a few weeks later and it is still online, it should be OK, alternatively use the wayback machine to see how long they have been around.