The Lemon Fool

has any one knowledge of using online agents rather than high street agents?

examples are purplebricks , YOPA , housimple , doorsteps .

thanks.

jackdaww wrote:has any one knowledge of using online agents rather than high street agents?

examples are purplebricks , YOPA , housimple , doorsteps .

thanks.

We are trying to buy a house "marketed" (actually just listed on the internet) through Purplebricks.

It is good for a buyer in that the process is transparent - we get updates if they get a viewing booked or if anyone makes an offer. However selling a home is different to selling a car or fridge on Gumtree. The vendor was very defensive from the outset of the property.

We made a cash offer 6% under the asking price, which was rejected. Normally an agent would step in at this point and negotiate, but as they only paid for advertising we have to negotiate directly with the vendors, which I am very uncomfortable doing, so the process has stalled and we will probably not buy it.

If it is a property in a block or row of almost identical ones where value is pretty easy to determine then online is probably not a bad route, but in this case houses on the same road vary by £150k. It seems a case of "This is what we want, pay up or go away".

I'm not actually convinced they want to sell the house, they just thought they'd put an optimistic price on and see if anyone bites. I thought our offer was quite generous, and they've had 1 viewing since our offer in November.

Paul

If I were the seller I'd not always want my prospective purchasers knowing about each other. If its a setting I could enable to remind people its a competitive market fine, but conversely if things were slow I'd not want buyers to know that.

JohnB wrote:If I were the seller I'd not always want my prospective purchasers knowing about each other. If its a setting I could enable to remind people its a competitive market fine, but conversely if things were slow I'd not want buyers to know that.

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many thanks.

i am not clear as to how buyers could know about each other through the online agents .

JohnB wrote:If I were the seller I'd not always want my prospective purchasers knowing about each other. If its a setting I could enable to remind people its a competitive market fine, but conversely if things were slow I'd not want buyers to know that.

Any agent who revealed to a prospective buyer the identity of other bidders or the amount of their bids should lose their license to operate in my view. That is a gross betrayal of confidence.

I have had agents tell me after the fact what the other bids were and why mine won or lost. But not whilst the process is ongoing. I don't see whether the agent is online or not should make any difference to that principle.

I've never used an online-only agent but suspect that it is less risky for a seller who, generally, wants to exchange and complete immediately after accepting an offer. It is the buyer who always needs time to do their due diligence. Yet of course agents work primarily for the seller and the buyer is usually on his/her own.

The American system where both buyer and seller have their own agent can work well. But at a cost of 5% or so of the transaction value rather than the 1% we are used to paying.

Lootman wrote:

JohnB wrote:If I were the seller I'd not always want my prospective purchasers knowing about each other. If its a setting I could enable to remind people its a competitive market fine, but conversely if things were slow I'd not want buyers to know that.

Any agent who revealed to a prospective buyer the identity of other bidders or the amount of their bids should lose their license to operate in my view. That is a gross betrayal of confidence.

I have had agents tell me after the fact what the other bids were and why mine won or lost. But not whilst the process is ongoing. I don't see whether the agent is online or not should make any difference to that principle.

I've never used an online-only agent but suspect that it is less risky for a seller who, generally, wants to exchange and complete immediately after accepting an offer. It is the buyer who always needs time to do their due diligence. Yet of course agents work primarily for the seller and the buyer is usually on his/her own.

The American system where both buyer and seller have their own agent can work well. But at a cost of 5% or so of the transaction value rather than the 1% we are used to paying.

You do not need a license to operate as an Estate Agent in the UK. Anyone can do it.

jackdaww wrote:

JohnB wrote:If I were the seller I'd not always want my prospective purchasers knowing about each other. If its a setting I could enable to remind people its a competitive market fine, but conversely if things were slow I'd not want buyers to know that.

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many thanks.

i am not clear as to how buyers could know about each other through the online agents .

Seems like a simple software application to me. I assume it doesn't actually identify the other prospective buyers;
i.e. it's similar to eBay, which does the same in telling you you've been outbid.

DrBunsenHoneydew wrote:

jackdaww wrote:

JohnB wrote:If I were the seller I'd not always want my prospective purchasers knowing about each other. If its a setting I could enable to remind people its a competitive market fine, but conversely if things were slow I'd not want buyers to know that.

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many thanks.

i am not clear as to how buyers could know about each other through the online agents .

Seems like a simple software application to me. I assume it doesn't actually identify the other prospective buyers;
i.e. it's similar to eBay, which does the same in telling you you've been outbid.

Correct. With PB we gt an email saying "Property X has a viewing". That is all - no other details. However it is extremely useful to know EXACTLY how much interest a property actually gets. "Oh, we're still getting viewings" might be accurate, but one after a 2 month gap suggest "not many".

What I have noticed looking at stuff for the last year is that we are pretty good at judging whether something is overpriced or not, often without even visiting. There are houses we saw online that have been with several agents over the last 12 months, and I would put good money will still be there in another 12 months at the current price.

On Rightmove it shows when something was listed, or reduced, but a new agent resets the date. However the EPC is dated and is often a pretty good guide to when the property was first marketed (assuming it hasn't been a rental in between or sold twice in 10 years).

Paul

DrFfybes wrote:Correct. With PB we gt an email saying "Property X has a viewing". That is all - no other details. However it is extremely useful to know EXACTLY how much interest a property actually gets. "Oh, we're still getting viewings" might be accurate, but one after a 2 month gap suggest "not many".

What I have noticed looking at stuff for the last year is that we are pretty good at judging whether something is overpriced or not, often without even visiting. There are houses we saw online that have been with several agents over the last 12 months, and I would put good money will still be there in another 12 months at the current price.

On Rightmove it shows when something was listed, or reduced, but a new agent resets the date. However the EPC is dated and is often a pretty good guide to when the property was first marketed (assuming it hasn't been a rental in between or sold twice in 10 years).

Paul

Although Rightmove tells you the date of a reduction in price, there is a nifty widget that tracks and lists every price change called "Property Log" extension for Google Chrome browser.

DrFfybes wrote:I'm not actually convinced they want to sell the house, they just thought they'd put an optimistic price on and see if anyone bites. I thought our offer was quite generous, and they've had 1 viewing since our offer in November.

Certainly, in the early days of online-only agents this was almost universally the case. All the sellers listed on online-only agents were chancers, offering their property at 20% (or more) above market value in the hope that someone would fall in love with it and pay their grossly inflated price. Because online estate agents were so cheap, they could afford to list indefinitely. Anyone who seriously wanted to sell their property, in a reasonable timeframe, used "proper" estate agents who would either not list or push such an overpriced property at all, or who would quickly lose interest in such timewasters.

That was quite a few years ago. It would be interesting to know whether this is still the case? Or whether online agents have actually become more mainstream amongst people who genuinely want to sell at a sensible price?

Gryff

jackdaww wrote:has any one knowledge of using online agents rather than high street agents?

examples are purplebricks , YOPA , housimple , doorsteps .

thanks.

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we are selling a house in the midlands.

weve gone with doorsteps , paying £450 for their £199 package and some extras eg for sale sign , EPC , premium listings on rightmove and zoopla .

purplebricks would have been around £1120 , high street agents around £2000.

i will post again on progress .

jackdaww wrote:==================================

we are selling a house in the midlands.

weve gone with doorsteps , paying £450 for their £199 package and some extras eg for sale sign , EPC , premium listings on rightmove and zoopla .

purplebricks would have been around £1120 , high street agents around £2000.

i will post again on progress .

Good luck with the sale, hope it works out and please keep us updated.

"Premium Listing" seems to put the price on a green background. It does make it stand out on an initial search which might give a hundred or so to scroll through, is eye catching. FWIW I find the "Featured Property" on RM an irritation. I now routinely just ignore the top property on every page and skip to the next one down as the "featured" on is also elsewhere in the list at the correct price point.

Out of interest why did you choose this particular one I'm assuming it was just a cheap way of getting on RM and Zoopla?

I had never heard of Doorsteps before so have just had a look at their website, which as a buyer needs work....
Properties for Sale was the sixth option, after them offering conveyencing (30% off, although not sure off what) and mortgages.
The search was interesting (no houses for sale in "Midlands", although 3 in "Birmingham", 6 for sale within 2 miles of "Elderflower" and 15 for sale near "Squirrel Poo")
Every 30 seconds a popup appeared asking me to "chat" with Frank (which I couldn't get to accept a message) or one telling me how many other people were viewing the area.

Paul

With PB we get an email saying "Property X has a viewing". That is all - no other details. However it is extremely useful to know how much interest a property actually gets

Actually you only see viewings that have been arranged on line. Viewings arranged over the phone do not normally show on the PB system so you would not see all viewings.

Chris

DrFfybes wrote:which as a buyer needs work....
Paul

What buyer ever searches an agent's own website?

So long as it's on rightmove and zoopla, buyers will find it. What matters is, will they like what they see there? And if they do, is there someone taking their enquiries, answering detailed questions, arranging viewings?

UncleEbenezer wrote:

DrFfybes wrote:which as a buyer needs work....
Paul

What buyer ever searches an agent's own website?

So long as it's on rightmove and zoopla, buyers will find it. What matters is, will they like what they see there? And if they do, is there someone taking their enquiries, answering detailed questions, arranging viewings?

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i agree most buyers will search the big boys rightmove and zoopla.

possibly any cruisers who see the for sale sign may look on the sellers website.

on another point , TLF doesnt seem to have a property board , surprising ?

jackdaww wrote:on another point , TLF doesnt seem to have a property board , surprising ?

It doesn’t?

It is an all encompassing board with Property in the title and can cover all matters concerning property. Unfortunately, it is under Investors’ Roundtable but that shouldn’t put anyone off and it hasn’t, with similar questions in the past over there.

It even has Practical in the sub-header.

PinkDalek wrote:

jackdaww wrote:on another point , TLF doesnt seem to have a property board , surprising ?

It doesn’t?

It is an all encompassing board with Property in the title and can cover all matters concerning property. Unfortunately, it is under Investors’ Roundtable but that shouldn’t put anyone off and it hasn’t, with similar questions in the past over there.

It even has Practical in the sub-header.

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yes , thanks , i didnt spot that .

i think it would sit more nicely on the lemon aid section.

Just to update the OP (and anyone else who cares) we went back up to Shrewsbury to view some property on Monday, and revisited the one on with PB who previously turned down our offer.

We foud another we really liked, then spent Tuesday umming and ahhing before phoning the PB people back on Weds. We still preferred their property, but didn't want to miss the other one, so upped the offer to be halfway between the asking price and our initial offer. As it happened they'd seen something they wanted on the Tuesday and so accepted our offer (damn, we should have gone in lower).

Since then PB have called me about 7 times to ensure things are progressing, have I unstructed sols, surveyor, etc, whilst also reminding me they offer this service. Oddly when the offer was accepted and email arrived with the sale details and solicitor details, listing us as using the PB linked firm.

Having given them the correct details they called again today to confirm I had started the processes and had paperwork from my sols, but soon got off the phone when I said I took the ID down yesterday and paid the fees deposit, and they surveyor was already at the property.

Paul

Strewth! No wonder prices go up, if people like you let them haggle you into upping an offer just 6% below the kite-flying.

When I bought my house last year, I offered 25% below the original asking price. I allowed myself to be haggled up to just 23% below, but stuck to my guns and eventually got it at that price.

(OK, that was the original asking price. The asking at the time of my offer was an intermediate figure).

UncleEbenezer wrote:Strewth! No wonder prices go up, if people like you let them haggle you into upping an offer just 6% below the kite-flying.

When I bought my house last year, I offered 25% below the original asking price. I allowed myself to be haggled up to just 23% below, but stuck to my guns and eventually got it at that price.

(OK, that was the original asking price. The asking at the time of my offer was an intermediate figure).

So your vendor realised they were optimistic, and had already dropped the price as they had little interest and were keen to sell. Sounds like you could have gone even lower

The point is that without knowing our circumstances, the house, or the market for that area I can't see how you are qualified to make that comment. Had we known the vendor had found somewhere in the intervening 1 day we would have offered sligtly lower, but we've been watching the area very closely for well over a year and through our contacts with agents in the area we know one "premium property" agent had valued this particular house somewhat higher, and another who had valued it last year concurred with our price.

There are a couple of places we offered on that we have seen drop to much nearer our offer in the last couple of weeks (or more accurately went off the market over Xmas and have come back on at more realistic prices). One probate sale in need of much renovation (more than the family would admit) just dropped £70k and went under offer in 2 days, another is now within £20k of our offer from September after 2 haircuts. Another looked very reasonable and went to sealed bids after 3 asking price offers from cash buyers (and one from someone in a chain) in the first 2 days. We were second bidder and just over the lowest, the highest was another 10% on our offer.

Just as a test, can you tell me why this isn't selling https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-fo ... 62000.html or whether this plot https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-fo ... 54224.html (effectively a development plot with a small house on it) justifies the £150k premium over similar sized bungalows similar distances from Shrewsbury?

Paul